Digital BW, The Print

Martin,
Could you possibly post the neutral curve you've been using? I've been
having exactly the results you mentioned (posterizing in the 3/4 tones)
till now on a Mac and a 1280. I've read about the supposed platform
problem but it would be interesting to try something that works (as far
as it goes) for you.
Thanks
Peter Lindman



Martin Wesley wrote:

> 
> Paul worked on the curves for me and as it stands the neutral nc
> curve is very good and I can produce very sharp, tonally smooth
> prints with this curve on EAM, LPM and similar papers. Using EAM and
> this curve, I feel I have made my best ink jet print so far. No micro
> or sub-micro banding, no dots even under magnification, no window
> screen pattern. The results are repeatable.
>

Peter,

I do not have the curves with me at the moment but I will start a 
folder for MIS VM curves in the "Files" section of the Homepage this 
evening. Look for it in 4 or 5 hours. I will post the two most recent 
sets of curves I have.

Martin

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., Peter Lindman 
<plindman@q...> wrote:
> Martin,
> Could you possibly post the neutral curve you've been using? I've 
been
> having exactly the results you mentioned (posterizing in the 3/4 
tones)
> till now on a Mac and a 1280. I've read about the supposed platform
> problem but it would be interesting to try something that works (as 
far
> as it goes) for you.
> Thanks
> Peter Lindman
> 
> 
> 
> Martin Wesley wrote:
> > 
> > Paul worked on the curves for me and as it stands the neutral nc
> > curve is very good and I can produce very sharp, tonally smooth
> > prints with this curve on EAM, LPM and similar papers. Using EAM 
and
> > this curve, I feel I have made my best ink jet print so far. No 
micro

> > or sub-micro banding, no dots even under magnification, no window
> > screen pattern. The results are repeatable.
> >

Thanks Martin,
All day I've played with OEM inks for grayscale output (been there
before but currently a bit frustrated with the alternatives). And though
one can get close at times\ufffdit's just a tease.
thanks
Peter Lindman

Martin Wesley wrote:

> 
> Peter,
> 
> I do not have the curves with me at the moment but I will start a
> folder for MIS VM curves in the "Files" section of the Homepage this
> evening. Look for it in 4 or 5 hours. I will post the two most recent
> sets of curves I have.
> 
> Martin

Peter,

I have placed the two latest sets of curves Paul sent me for the 1280 
connected to a PC in the "Files" section under "Inks".

Martin

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., Peter Lindman 
<plindman@q...> wrote:
> Thanks Martin,
> All day I've played with OEM inks for grayscale output (been there
> before but currently a bit frustrated with the alternatives). And 
though
> one can get close at times…it's just a tease.
> thanks
> Peter Lindman

I think the key to this is very precise color management through out 
the system. Probably more precise than you would need for good color. 
Better to pick a direction with the color ink sets and go brown or 
blue or whatever your preferrence is. The closer you try to get to 
neutral the tougher it is. People are making it work though.

Martin

(snip)

Martin or Paul,

I've looked for info explaining the difference between the "VMH..."
curves that Paul sent me a few weeks ago and the "VMP..." files you 
recently posted here, but I've come up empty-handed. The reason I'm 
asking is that I've tried the latter files and they're causing 
posterization. Are they intended for use with different papers or 
possibly for the MAC?

Tom

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., mwesley250@e... wrote:
> Peter,
> 
> I have placed the two latest sets of curves Paul sent me for the 
1280 

> connected to a PC in the "Files" section under "Inks".
> 
> Martin

Tom,

The vmh8 series files were developed for the 1280 running on a Mac 
and as people started up using the MIS VM on PC's a second set of 
curves came out and are in ongoing development. These were the vmp8 
series.

So vmh8 for 1280 on the Mac and vmp8 for the 1280 on the PC. All are 
optimized for EAM but I have found that they work well with a range 
of other papers.

In working with the PC curves I have found that the "nc" and "c" 
curves are the smoothest. The "mw" and "w" curves show posterization. 
I have also found that using the Magenta slider may induce 
posterization as well. Work needs to be done on these and we all need 
to take a crack at it. I have posted some of Paul's methods for curve 
adjustment in the "Files" section.

Martin

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., "Tom Keesling" 
<tom.keesling@a...> wrote:

> Martin or Paul,
> 
> I've looked for info explaining the difference between the "VMH..."
> curves that Paul sent me a few weeks ago and the "VMP..." files you 
> recently posted here, but I've come up empty-handed. The reason I'm 
> asking is that I've tried the latter files and they're causing 
> posterization. Are they intended for use with different papers or 
> possibly for the MAC?
> 
> Tom
> 
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., mwesley250@e... wrote:
> > Peter,
> > 
> > I have placed the two latest sets of curves Paul sent me for the 
> 1280 
> > connected to a PC in the "Files" section under "Inks".
> > 
> > Martin

Martin,

I compared the prints you sent with the 1280's "smooth" setting on and off.
At a 800 dpi scan resolution the lines of the test chart are slightly softer
with the "smooth" on.  The standard deviations  (what I use as a measure of
unevenness within a uniform density patch of the step wedges) were
essentially the same.  So, it softened the image detail without having any
noticeable effect on the smoothness of the uniform tones.  I would opt for a
hair more sharpness and leave the "smooth" setting in the off position.

Paul
http://www.PaulRoark.com



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Paul,

Thanks for the feedback. Not knowing what it was doning and not 
seeing any improvement I have been leaving it off.

I am still wondering about the "halftone" setting which is absent 
from my driver settings. Is there a difference between the Windows 98 
and the Windows 2000 version of the driver?

Can someone running a 1280 under Windows 98 tell me if there is 
a "halftone" setting in the "Advanced" settings under "Custom"?

Thanks,
Martin

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., "Paul Roark" 
<paul.roark@v...> wrote:
> Martin,
> 
> I compared the prints you sent with the 1280's "smooth" setting on 
and off.
> At a 800 dpi scan resolution the lines of the test chart are 
slightly softer
> with the "smooth" on.  The standard deviations  (what I use as a 
measure of
> unevenness within a uniform density patch of the step wedges) were
> essentially the same.  So, it softened the image detail without 
having any
> noticeable effect on the smoothness of the uniform tones.  I would 
opt for a
> hair more sharpness and leave the "smooth" setting in the off 
position.

> 
> Paul
> http://www.PaulRoark.com
> 
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

No. I'm running Win98SE. When 1440 dpi is selected, the options are 
High Speed, Flip Horizontal, and Smooth Edge. MicroWeave and Finest 
Detail are grayed out.

Tom Keesling


--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., "Martin Wesley" 
<mwesley250@e...> wrote:

> 
> Can someone running a 1280 under Windows 98 tell me if there is 
> a "halftone" setting in the "Advanced" settings under "Custom"?

Tom,

Thank you for the clarification. I am relived to know there is not 
some 98 vs. 2000 difference in the drivers as well as the Mac vs. PC 
difference.

Martin

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., "Tom Keesling" 
<tom.keesling@a...> wrote:

> No. I'm running Win98SE. When 1440 dpi is selected, the options are 
> High Speed, Flip Horizontal, and Smooth Edge. MicroWeave and Finest 
> Detail are grayed out.
> 
> Tom Keesling
> 
> 
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., "Martin Wesley" 
> <mwesley250@e...> wrote:
> 
> > 
> > Can someone running a 1280 under Windows 98 tell me if there is 
> > a "halftone" setting in the "Advanced" settings under "Custom"?

Well, that explains my disappointment with the VMH8 curves! I thought 
I had read all the info here and on the MIS site, but still didn't 
pick up on the fact that the VMH8 curves were MAC-centric. In fact, I 
somehow got the impression they were for use in WIN98. Oh, well.

Now with yours and Paul's info, I can go back and apply the proper 
curves with the proper settings in my WIN98 system and get back to 
printing. <G> 

It might be helpful to explain this MAC/PC distinction in the files 
section where the curves are listed to ensure that others don't make 
the same mistake I did. 

Thanks...

Tom

 --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., "Martin Wesley" 
<mwesley250@e...> wrote:

> Tom,
> 
> The vmh8 series files were developed for the 1280 running on a Mac 
> and as people started up using the MIS VM on PC's a second set of 
> curves came out and are in ongoing development. These were the vmp8 
> series.

Tom,

Let us know how the curves work for you. I spruced up the labeling so 
no one else makes the same mistake.

Martin

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., "Tom Keesling" 
<tom.keesling@a...> wrote:
> Well, that explains my disappointment with the VMH8 curves! I 
thought 
> I had read all the info here and on the MIS site, but still didn't 
> pick up on the fact that the VMH8 curves were MAC-centric. In fact, 
I 
> somehow got the impression they were for use in WIN98. Oh, well.
> 
> Now with yours and Paul's info, I can go back and apply the proper 
> curves with the proper settings in my WIN98 system and get back to 
> printing. <G> 
> 
> It might be helpful to explain this MAC/PC distinction in the files 
> section where the curves are listed to ensure that others don't 
make 
> the same mistake I did. 
> 
> Thanks...
> 
(snip)

Martin, Paul, et al,

That looks good.

Something else that I just thought about. If we're going to end up 
with lots of curves for various printer and paper combinations for 
each platform, would it make sense to use more descriptive file names 
for the curves? Names that more clearly indicate the platform, the 
printer, and possibly the paper for which the curve was developed? I 
realize that a given curve may work for more than one paper, but at 
least the original paper that was used in developing the curve could 
be identified.

If this can be done, it might make the use of the curves just a 
little easier for those who are just getting started with this 
process.

Tom

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., "Martin Wesley" 
<mwesley250@e...> wrote:

> Tom,
> 
> I spruced up the labeling so no one else makes the same mistake.
> 
> Martin