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Re: [Digital BW] Re: LaCie vs. Sony vs. Mitsubishi

Re: [Digital BW] Re: LaCie vs. Sony vs. Mitsubishi

2003-01-31 by Sam A. McCandless

>Is the Artisan a wide screen Monitor?
>
>Jerry

It's the old-fashioned, 4:3 ratio. From Sony's web site:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>Artisan Color Reference System
>GDM-C520K
>The Artisan Color Reference System is an integrated display solution 
>engineered to deliver stable, accurate and repeatable color results 
>for design applications, demanding creative
>
>$ 1,799.99
>as low as $45.00/ mo
>Financing Details
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>Specifications 	  top of page 
>* Artisan Color Reference System Display
>* CRT Type: FD Trinitron® CRT
>* CRT size: 21
>* Viewable image size: 19.8
>* Cabinet Color: Neutral Gray (L50), Metallic Gray, Dark Gray
>* Screen Coating: High Contrast, Anti Reflective
>* Maximum resolution: 2048 x 1536
>* Recommended resolution: 1600 x 1200 @85Hz
>* Aperture Grille Pitch: 0.24mm
>* Horizontal scan range: 30-130kHz
>* Vertical scan range: 48-170Hz
>* Video input connectors:
>HD15
>HD15
>* Color Temperature Control: 11000K-5000K
>* Display Product measurements:
>Weight: 67.1 lbs.
>Dimensions (WxHxD): 19.6 x 19.8 x 19.3
>* Display Shipping measurements:
>Weight: 81.4 lbs.
>Dimensions (WxHxD): 26.0 x 30.3 x 26.0
>* Supplied Display Accessories:
>AC power cord
>Warranty Card
>Users manual (English, French, Spanish)

Re: [Digital BW] Re: LaCie vs. Sony vs. Mitsubishi

2003-01-31 by Sam A. McCandless

I'm thinking hard about getting one of the new Sony Artisan 
(GDM-C520K) monitors, but I also think Sony has a strong in-house 
competitor in the GDM-F520 (no "K"). It's not new; it's 
second-generation. It's sharper (22mm vs 24mm dot pitch), removing 
some of the advantage the LCDs have in that regard. Some of us 
already have a way to profile it so don't need that feature on the 
Artisan and don't know how good it is anyway. Also, the no-K F520 has 
BNC connectors as well as HD15, its accessories are more extensive, 
and it's $100 less.

I'm influenced partly by my experience with the GDM-F400, the 19-inch 
smaller version of the first-generation 21-inch GDM-F500. It's been 
very nice, for three and a half years, both for text and for images. 
I've enjoyed (and learned a little) profiling it. But I'm never been 
sure I have actually improved on the "canned" profile which came with 
it. This might, of course, say more about me than the monitor. Or is 
it possible that the best of the monitors don't need to be 
re-profiled?

Sam

Sam McCandless         samcc@...
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>PREMIERPRO Series 21 FD Trinitron® CRT
>GDM-F520
>The F520 is ideal for the demanding CAD and graphic professionals. 
>The virtually flat, high resolution FD Trinitron® CRT combined with 
>a 0.22mm aperture grille pitch sets a new level
>
>$ 1,699.99
>as low as $43.00/ mo
>
>Specifications
>* CRT:
>21" (19.8" viewable image size)
>
>
>* Aperture Grille Pitch:
>0.22mm
>
>
>* Screen Treatment:
>Conductive, Anti-Reflective Coating
>
>
>* Horizontal Scan Range:
>30kHz - 137kHz
>
>
>* Vertical Scan Range:
>48Hz - 170Hz
>
>
>* Maximum Resolution:
>2048 x 1536 @ 85Hz
>
>
>* Recommended Resolution:
>1920 x 1440 @ 85Hz
>1880 x 1440 @ 85Hz
>1600 x 1200 @ 85Hz
>
>
>* Timing Data Table (TDT):
>27 modes
>
>
>* User adjustable settings:
>15 Settings
>
>
>* Color Temperature Presets:
>5000 Kelvin
>6500 Kelvin
>9300 Kelvin
>
>
>* Color Adjustment:
>5000K-11000K adjustment
>RGB: Gain/Bias control
>sRGB setting
>
>
>* Input Connector:
>D-sub HD15
>5 BNC Connectors
>
>
>* Power Requirements:
>90-264V AC; 50-60Hz
>
>
>* Dimensions: (HxWxD)
>19.6" x 19.6" x 19.2"
>
>
>* Weight:
>67.4 lbs.
>
>
>* Power Management:
>Operation: <145 watts
>Active Off: <3 watt
>Power Off: 0 watt (approx.)
>
>
>* Supplied Accessories:
>Video Signal Cable (HD-15 ~ HD-15 Video Signal Cable)
>AC Power Cord
>MAC Adapter
>USB Cable
>User's Manual
>Warranty card
>
>
>* Limited Warranty:
>3 Years - Parts, Labor and CRT



> >Is the Artisan a wide screen Monitor?
> >
> >Jerry
>
>It's the old-fashioned, 4:3 ratio. From Sony's web site:
>
> >Artisan Color Reference System
> >GDM-C520K
> >The Artisan Color Reference System is an integrated display solution
> >engineered to deliver stable, accurate and repeatable color results
> >for design applications, demanding creative
> >
> >$ 1,799.99
> >as low as $45.00/ mo
> >
> >
> >Specifications
> >* Artisan Color Reference System Display
> >* CRT Type: FD Trinitron® CRT
> >* CRT size: 21
> >* Viewable image size: 19.8
> >* Cabinet Color: Neutral Gray (L50), Metallic Gray, Dark Gray
> >* Screen Coating: High Contrast, Anti Reflective
> >* Maximum resolution: 2048 x 1536
> >* Recommended resolution: 1600 x 1200 @85Hz
> >* Aperture Grille Pitch: 0.24mm
> >* Horizontal scan range: 30-130kHz
> >* Vertical scan range: 48-170Hz
> >* Video input connectors:
> >HD15
> >HD15
> >* Color Temperature Control: 11000K-5000K
> >* Display Product measurements:
> >Weight: 67.1 lbs.
> >Dimensions (WxHxD): 19.6 x 19.8 x 19.3
> >* Display Shipping measurements:
> >Weight: 81.4 lbs.
> >Dimensions (WxHxD): 26.0 x 30.3 x 26.0
> >* Supplied Display Accessories:
> >AC power cord
> >Warranty Card
> >Users manual (English, French, Spanish)

Re: [Digital BW] Re: LaCie vs. Sony vs. Mitsubishi

2003-02-01 by Robert Morrison

On 1/31/03 2:47 PM, "Sam A. McCandless" <samcc@...> wrote:

> I'm thinking hard about getting one of the new Sony Artisan
> (GDM-C520K) monitors, but I also think Sony has a strong in-house
> competitor in the GDM-F520 (no "K"). It's not new; it's
> second-generation. It's sharper (22mm vs 24mm dot pitch), removing
> some of the advantage the LCDs have in that regard.

The move from 24 to 22 is nothing compared to moving to an LCD with respect
to sharpness...have you seen a high end CRT next to a high end LCD display?
They are sitting in front of me...and I can tell you there is no comparison
with regards to sharpness.

Robert

Re: [Digital BW] Re: LaCie vs. Sony vs. Mitsubishi

2003-02-01 by Jerry Olson

Thanks Sam, I want the widescreen monitor, so will probably go with the
20 inch apple when its time. IF it can
easily be profiled.  Apple monitors used to have an automatic
calibration feature. Wonder why they quit making
it?

Jerry


"Sam A. McCandless" wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> 
> >Is the Artisan a wide screen Monitor?
> >
> >Jerry
> 
> It's the old-fashioned, 4:3 ratio. From Sony's web site:
> 
> >Artisan Color Reference System
> >GDM-C520K
> >The Artisan Color Reference System is an integrated display solution
> >engineered to deliver stable, accurate and repeatable color results
> >for design applications, demanding creative
> >
> >$ 1,799.99
> >as low as $45.00/ mo
> >Financing Details
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >Specifications           top of page
> >* Artisan Color Reference System Display
> >* CRT Type: FD Trinitron\ufffd CRT
> >* CRT size: 21
> >* Viewable image size: 19.8
> >* Cabinet Color: Neutral Gray (L50), Metallic Gray, Dark Gray
> >* Screen Coating: High Contrast, Anti Reflective
> >* Maximum resolution: 2048 x 1536
> >* Recommended resolution: 1600 x 1200 @85Hz
> >* Aperture Grille Pitch: 0.24mm
> >* Horizontal scan range: 30-130kHz
> >* Vertical scan range: 48-170Hz
> >* Video input connectors:
> >HD15
> >HD15
> >* Color Temperature Control: 11000K-5000K
> >* Display Product measurements:
> >Weight: 67.1 lbs.
> >Dimensions (WxHxD): 19.6 x 19.8 x 19.3
> >* Display Shipping measurements:
> >Weight: 81.4 lbs.
> >Dimensions (WxHxD): 26.0 x 30.3 x 26.0
> >* Supplied Display Accessories:
> >AC power cord
> >Warranty Card
> >Users manual (English, French, Spanish)
> 
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
> 
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> 
> If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same page.
> 
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> - Include your full name with your message.
> - Include the address of your website, if you have one.
> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep them short.
> - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject header.
> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or &amp;amp;quot;flames.&amp;amp;quot;
> - Complete your Yahoo profile.
> - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the various resources on the homepage.
> 
> 
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Re: [Digital BW] Re: LaCie vs. Sony vs. Mitsubishi

2003-02-02 by Bob Frost

Robert,

I've got a 21" Mitsubishi 2060u CRT sitting next to my new 20" Formac
Gallery 2010 LCD, and it's like chalk and cheese. Everything about the
Formac is better (except the price), and the sharpness is amazing. The
minute icons on the Windows taskbar at 1600x1200 are pinsharp; I never knew
they were that detailed before.

Bob Frost.
Show quoted textHide quoted text
----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert Morrison" <rmorrison@...>
> The move from 24 to 22 is nothing compared to moving to an LCD with
respect
> to sharpness...have you seen a high end CRT next to a high end LCD
display?
> They are sitting in front of me...and I can tell you there is no
comparison
> with regards to sharpness.

Re: [Digital BW] Re: LaCie vs. Sony vs. Mitsubishi

2003-02-02 by Sam A. McCandless

I don't disagree with Robert about this:

At 7:12 PM -0800 1/31/03, Robert Morrison wrote:
>The move from 24 to 22 is nothing compared to moving to an LCD with respect
>to sharpness...have you seen a high end CRT next to a high end LCD display?
>They are sitting in front of me...and I can tell you there is no comparison
>with regards to sharpness.

but I wasn't trying in the post quoted below to argue about that. 
What I was trying to argue is that the Sony "Artisan Color Reference 
System" (GDM-C520K) has some stiff in-house competition from Sony's 
other high-end CRT, the GDM-F520.

This is irrelevant, of course, unless you think you might need or 
want a CRT. I don't, particularly, but then I also don't want to have 
to replace my video card, add an adapter, and worry about OS9 
compatibility issues. And I do want to be able to use my next monitor 
with the notebook I'd get to use with a digital camera. But that 
notebook would I think be the 12-inch PowerBook, and it's 
incompatible with the Apple (LCD) Cinema Displays. So ... :

At 2:47 PM -0800 1/31/03, Sam A. McCandless wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>I'm thinking hard about getting one of the new Sony Artisan
>(GDM-C520K) monitors, but I also think Sony has a strong in-house
>competitor in the GDM-F520 (no "K"). It's not new; it's
>second-generation. It's sharper (22mm vs 24mm dot pitch), removing
>some of the advantage the LCDs have in that regard. Some of us
>already have a way to profile it so don't need that feature on the
>Artisan and don't know how good it is anyway. Also, the no-K F520 has
>BNC connectors as well as HD15, its accessories are more extensive,
>and it's $100 less.
>[snip]
>
>Sam
>
>Sam McCandless         samcc@...

Re: [Digital BW] LaCie vs. Sony vs. Mitsubishi

2003-02-03 by Carolyn Frayn

On Sunday, February 2, 2003, at 01:29  PM, Sam A. McCandless wrote:

>
> compatibility issues. And I do want to be able to use my next monitor
> with the notebook I'd get to use with a digital camera. But that
> notebook would I think be the 12-inch PowerBook, and it's
> incompatible with the Apple (LCD) Cinema Displays. So ... :

Sam, if I've read your post right you may be interested in this...

  ACD's are compatible with the new powerbooks.
http://www.apple.com/ca/displays/adapter.html

Carolyn

Re: [Digital BW] LaCie vs. Sony vs. Mitsubishi

2003-02-03 by Sam A. McCandless

At 11:00 PM -0700 2/2/03, Carolyn Frayn wrote:
>On Sunday, February 2, 2003, at 01:29  PM, Sam A. McCandless wrote:
>
> >
> > compatibility issues. And I do want to be able to use my next monitor
> > with the notebook I'd get to use with a digital camera. But that
> > notebook would I think be the 12-inch PowerBook, and it's
> > incompatible with the Apple (LCD) Cinema Displays. So ... :
>
>Sam, if I've read your post right you may be interested in this...
>
>  ACD's are compatible with the new powerbooks.
>http://www.apple.com/ca/displays/adapter.html

And from reading this, you would think that the DVI-to-ADC adapter 
works with the new 12-inch PowerBook as well as with the "old" 
15-inch PowerBook and the new 17-inch PowerBook. But in fact, Apple 
didn't put a DVI-out connector on the 12-inch PB. So in its case, the 
adapter can't get at what it needs to do its thing.

But maybe even a good 12-inch LCD isn't big enough for Photoshop's 
palettes. Does anyone know, perhaps from experience with an iBook? I 
think the conventional wisdom has for some time been that a 17-inch 
CRT or a 15-inch LCD makes a good second monitor Photoshop. But both 
have been improving (although my eyes haven't).

Thanks.

Sam

Sam McCandless       samcc@...

Re: [Digital BW] Re: LaCie vs. Sony vs. Mitsubishi

2003-02-03 by Michael Poster

Bob,

I've taken this off list considering the OT nature of the questions. Hope 
you don't mind.

I'm shopping for a monitor. I cannot use an aperture grille screen because 
of some hard to figure out problems I seem to have while using them. I get 
a severe headache after an hour or two.

I've been using high-quality shadow mask monitors exclusively as they seem 
to work OK with whatever "loose connection" I have that causes those headaches.

But I've been patiently waiting for LCDs to become good enough for image 
editing and it sounds like they have according to what I've read recently. 
The Formacs have been particularly interesting but I've been hesitant as 
I'm on Windows (XP Pro). I noticed you were as well and using a Formac to boot.

So what I'm after is any migration / set up problems I might encounter. My 
system is using a NVIDIA GeForce4 Ti4200 FWIW.

Thanks for any insights.

Michael

At 08:17 PM 2/2/2003 +0000, you wrote:
>Robert,
>
>I've got a 21" Mitsubishi 2060u CRT sitting next to my new 20" Formac
>Gallery 2010 LCD, and it's like chalk and cheese. Everything about the
>Formac is better (except the price), and the sharpness is amazing. The
>minute icons on the Windows taskbar at 1600x1200 are pinsharp; I never knew
>they were that detailed before.
>
>Bob Frost.
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Robert Morrison" <rmorrison@...>
> > The move from 24 to 22 is nothing compared to moving to an LCD with
>respect
> > to sharpness...have you seen a high end CRT next to a high end LCD
>display?
> > They are sitting in front of me...and I can tell you there is no
>comparison
> > with regards to sharpness.
>
>
>Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and 
>other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
>
>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
>
>If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to 
>unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same 
>page.
>
>Please follow these basic guidelines:
>- Include your full name with your message.
>- Include the address of your website, if you have one.
>- As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep 
>them short.
>- As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject header.
>- Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or 
>&amp;amp;quot;flames.&amp;amp;quot;
>- Complete your Yahoo profile.
>- Before posting a question, search the message archives and the various 
>resources on the homepage.
>
>
>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/


Michael Poster
Publisher - WOODWEB, Inc.
www.woodweb.com
mposter@...

Direct office voice: 570-278-2696
Direct office fax:     570-278-9107

Business Office:
WOODWEB, Inc.
RR4 Box 265A
Montrose, PA  18801

Re: [Digital BW] Re: LaCie vs. Sony vs. Mitsubishi

2003-02-04 by Robert Morrison

Yep, that's my point.

Robert
Show quoted textHide quoted text
On 2/2/03 12:17 PM, "Bob Frost" <bobfrost@...> wrote:

> Robert,
> 
> I've got a 21" Mitsubishi 2060u CRT sitting next to my new 20" Formac
> Gallery 2010 LCD, and it's like chalk and cheese. Everything about the
> Formac is better (except the price), and the sharpness is amazing. The
> minute icons on the Windows taskbar at 1600x1200 are pinsharp; I never knew
> they were that detailed before.
> 
> Bob Frost.
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Robert Morrison" <rmorrison@...>
>> The move from 24 to 22 is nothing compared to moving to an LCD with
> respect
>> to sharpness...have you seen a high end CRT next to a high end LCD
> display?
>> They are sitting in front of me...and I can tell you there is no
> comparison
>> with regards to sharpness.
> 
> 
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and other
> resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
> 
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> 
> If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to
> unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same
> page.
> 
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> - Include your full name with your message.
> - Include the address of your website, if you have one.
> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep
> them short.
> - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject header.
> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or
> &amp;amp;quot;flames.&amp;amp;quot;
> - Complete your Yahoo profile.
> - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the various
> resources on the homepage.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> 
> 
>

Re: [Digital BW] Re: LaCie vs. Sony vs. Mitsubishi

2003-02-04 by Bob Frost

Michael,

My Formac wouldn't work at first because I had a Matrox graphics card - they
don't support Apple or Formac type LCD's. So I bought a nVidia GeForce 4600
and only had one problem; Optical uses its Optical Startup to write to the
graphics card at Startup. Unfortunately, the nVidia driver overwrites this
at the end of startup. The work-around that Colorvision suggested is simply
to move Optical Startup from the Startup folder onto the Desktop. Then when
everything has booted up and the nVidia driver has finished, you simply run
Optical Startup from the Desktop. Otherwise no problems - just make sure you
order the DVI version for PCs.

Bob Frost.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael Poster" <mposter@...>
To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, February 03, 2003 10:06 PM
Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Re: LaCie vs. Sony vs. Mitsubishi


> Bob,
>
> I've taken this off list considering the OT nature of the questions. Hope
> you don't mind.
>
> I'm shopping for a monitor. I cannot use an aperture grille screen because
> of some hard to figure out problems I seem to have while using them. I get
> a severe headache after an hour or two.
>
> I've been using high-quality shadow mask monitors exclusively as they seem
> to work OK with whatever "loose connection" I have that causes those
headaches.
>
> But I've been patiently waiting for LCDs to become good enough for image
> editing and it sounds like they have according to what I've read recently.
> The Formacs have been particularly interesting but I've been hesitant as
> I'm on Windows (XP Pro). I noticed you were as well and using a Formac to
boot.
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>
> So what I'm after is any migration / set up problems I might encounter. My
> system is using a NVIDIA GeForce4 Ti4200 FWIW.

CRTs: the best Sony (was Re: [Digital BW] Re: LaCie vs. Sony vs. Mitsubishi)

2003-02-18 by Sam A. McCandless

Here, from today's MacInTouch.com, is a footnote relevant to my 
contention (below) that Sony's GDM-F520 might be preferred to Sony's 
Artisan Color Reference System (GDM-C520K). Now I'm not so sure: I 
hadn't realized that Karl Lang was involved with the Artisan.

Sam
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>Dave Dahlberg followed up on a problem with Sony's high-end Artisan display:
>
>Sony has fixed the Artisan's $1,800 calibrated display's USB issues 
>under Mac OS 9 (unplug 2 USB cables, reboot, plug in cables, rerun 
>software, hope for no errors). The updater is at:[GDM-Cxxx Display 
>Support]
>  Incidentally, your pre-press readers may be interested to know 
>that this monitor was architected by Karl Lang, formerly the 
>architect at Radius who designed the Industry Standard Pressview / 
>Colormatch reference system for pre-press. He's brought his years of 
>calibration expertise to the Artisan and it shows.
>  This is not some puck attempt at calibration of any monitor. The 
>software directly controls the video circuitry of the display, 
>including blacks, like a $5,000 Barco, and supports the different 
>colorspaces of D50 (print), D65 (photo) and Web. I replaced a 
>Pressview and couldn't be happier (especially with the USB bugs 
>fixed).



>I don't disagree with Robert about this:
>
>At 7:12 PM -0800 1/31/03, Robert Morrison wrote:
> >The move from 24 to 22 is nothing compared to moving to an LCD with respect
> >to sharpness...have you seen a high end CRT next to a high end LCD display?
> >They are sitting in front of me...and I can tell you there is no comparison
> >with regards to sharpness.
>
>but I wasn't trying in the post quoted below to argue about that.
>What I was trying to argue is that the Sony "Artisan Color Reference
>System" (GDM-C520K) has some stiff in-house competition from Sony's
>other high-end CRT, the GDM-F520.
>
>This is irrelevant, of course, unless you think you might need or
>want a CRT. I don't, particularly, but then I also don't want to have
>to replace my video card, add an adapter, and worry about OS9
>compatibility issues. And I do want to be able to use my next monitor
>with the notebook I'd get to use with a digital camera. But that
>notebook would I think be the 12-inch PowerBook, and it's
>incompatible with the Apple (LCD) Cinema Displays. So ... :
>
>At 2:47 PM -0800 1/31/03, Sam A. McCandless wrote:
> >I'm thinking hard about getting one of the new Sony Artisan
> >(GDM-C520K) monitors, but I also think Sony has a strong in-house
> >competitor in the GDM-F520 (no "K"). It's not new; it's
> >second-generation. It's sharper (22mm vs 24mm dot pitch), removing
> >some of the advantage the LCDs have in that regard. Some of us
> >already have a way to profile it so don't need that feature on the
> >Artisan and don't know how good it is anyway. Also, the no-K F520 has
> >BNC connectors as well as HD15, its accessories are more extensive,
> >and it's $100 less.
> >[snip]
> >
> >Sam
> >
> >Sam McCandless         samcc@...

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