Digital BW, The Print

I just loaded my first attempt at a B&W inkset for my 7500 last night.  It's
not final yet, but I'm working on the issue.  The vm curves are done only
for the 7000 and PC.  I'm working on a new approach.  Here are a few of my
thoughts.

S\ufffdren Lindqvist wrote:
>...
> With an 7500 dedicated for BW inkset, what kind of
>inkset should I use?
>...

Steve K. wrote:

>The question you need to answer before deciding on inks,
>is how are you going to control them? ...

>Option 1) The specialized software almost certainly gives
>the best results, but particularly at this size, is
>very expensive. ...

I hope to have an inkset that will allow a RIP to do a good job, but I also
want the inkset to be controllable by the Epson driver.  That puts some
price pressure on the RIP sellers.  There will (hopefully soon) be some new
RIPs that might be much cheaper than the existing ones.

>The partitioned workflow approach: When it works well,
>it works very well also, ...

I don't know if the 7000 vm curves work on the 7500.  I'm not interested in
the old vm.  The new vm may be a few weeks off.  I'm more interested in a
new version of the vm-s, with a range from slightly cool/selenium to sepia.

>I have been using a ... Epson Archival Black ...
> for the gray positions, and the new Cone Museum K for black.

That is what is in my 7500 now.  The MIS matte black/PT Museum K in the K
position, Epson Archival Black in the cyan position, then dilutions of gray
and a toner.  The goal is a variable-tone, dual-K machine that can print on
matte or RC papers with software black ink switching.  But, my inkset is not
ready to go yet.  I've been able to do software switching on a quad, so I
think the Epson driver might be able to do it on the 7500.  It's going to be
a few weeks before I have it all sorted out.  I'll, of course, publish any
curves I make that control whatever inkset I end up using.

>...I need better ... dithering ...

I also have a few unacceptably rough spots on my 7500.  The 7000 with the vm
inkset and curves was able to get a smooth output.  So, I think the driver
should be capable of it.  Getting the right combination of settings and
curves might be able to smooth it out.

>There is one other possibility cropping up, that is in the
>development phase: something called Gimp-print, which is a Linux-
>Unix-Mac OS X printing utility. ...

I hope this pans out, but I don't think it's quite ready for prime time and
PCs yet.

Paul
http://www.PaulRoark.com

Steve,

>...I too am just now setting up a 7500 for B&W fine art printing
>...

>The partitioned workflow approach: When it works well, it works very
>well also, but as far as I know,  there is only a set of curves
>available for the MIS VM inks and the 7000,

If I don't get a solution soon to the problems I've run into with the new
inkset, I'll just make an improved version of the existing vm-s inkset and
write curves for the 7500.  Since the vm in the 7000 works, I'm quite sure
we'll at least have some viable Epson-driver inkset to fall back on.

>... for the 7500, and am ... using Epson Archival Black
>(drawn out of a 7500 cartridge and diluted with clear Epson
>base stock) for the gray positions,

What clear base are you using?  My initial experiments with the MIS clear
base looked fine, but they did not do well in a fade test.  I don't know
whether it is the MIS clear base or whether the Epson Archival black just
does not perform well diluted.

My impression of Epson Archival Matte K is that it is great as a black for
RC paper -- the highest pigment dmax I've seen.  It is also solid on EEM at
the 100% spot in terms of fade resistance.  At the 50% patch it is not quite
as good, dropping 0.02 units versus 0.00 for Epson and MIS Photo Ks.

Why didn't Epson use the Archival black in the UC inkset?

Why does new Epson UC Photo K not have quite as high a dmax?

I hate to even mention the possibility, but does Epson Archival K have some
dye in it?  The diluted performance is similar to what I see with MIS FS/VM
K.  This just does not make sense.

I will soon test new 1000 Arc K diluted with MIS's new UC base to see if
there are any differences.  However, for now, I do not recommend Epson 7500
k in any diluted solution.

I think we really need to find a cooperative company with a high-end fade
tester that can hold the humidity up to where it should be.  My tests just
do not show any beneficial effect from the Epson coatings.  The last test I
did was even on a water bath to try to raise the humidity -- no effect.

I think paint and coatings companies, among others, have these machines.  If
anyone has any contacts with such companies, perhaps we could get a little
free test time.

I also think Cone and Zeiss should hire RIT to compare their new matte
blacks to Epson's Archival black.  If RIT tests show the same results I get,
advertising that the new matte black beats the black Epson uses in its "200
year" "Archival" inkset might be real impressive.  (The Epson representation
is still out there on non-U.S. Epson websites.)

If the Epson coating is mostly hype, we need to know it.  The new base that
has been developed allows third party RC compatibility with no coating on
the particles.  My tests indicate these are excellent inks for our uses.  I
have no interest in paying Epson's prices if the coatings do not add to
longevity.

Paul
http://www.PaulRoark.com

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Roark" 
<paul.roark@v...> wrote:
> Steve,
> 
> >...I too am just now setting up a 7500 for B&W fine art printing
> >...
> 
> >The partitioned workflow approach: When it works well, it works 
very
> >well also, but as far as I know,  there is only a set of curves
> >available for the MIS VM inks and the 7000,
> 
> If I don't get a solution soon to the problems I've run into with 
the new
> inkset, I'll just make an improved version of the existing vm-s 
inkset and
> write curves for the 7500.  Since the vm in the 7000 works, I'm 
quite sure
> we'll at least have some viable Epson-driver inkset to fall back 
on.
A 7500 version of the VMS inkset sounds good as a fallback, though 
the double-K idea sounds even better. I do hope you can overcome 
whatever control problems have presented themselves.
> What clear base are you using?  My initial experiments with the 
MIS clear
> base looked fine, but they did not do well in a fade test.  I 
don't know
> whether it is the MIS clear base or whether the Epson Archival 
black just
> does not perform well diluted.
That's not good news... I am using the MIS clear base. So you 
suspect the base is more to blame? Should I assume that if I dilute 
the Cone Museum K it too will do no better? What other choices are 
there for mixing your own, is the new base available anywhere?

BTW the overly dense blacks I reported when I first tested the 7500 
went away when I got rid of the GEN 4 K. Head slant alignment got 
rid of some of the grittiness, and between that and your suggestion 
to try the Watercolor setting, I'm getting some pretty reasonable 
results-which makes this ink problem all the more vexing.


Steve K

Paul, I don't think I've ever asked about this, but are there any DYE
based quad inks with a super dense, deep black that are supposedly
archival, and would last at least 25 years under low light conditions?  

Right now, I'd be pretty happy with a DEEP black that lasted 25 years or
so. And I don't suppose the dye inks would have any flaking problems.

Jerry

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Paul 
Roark" <paul.roark@v...> wrote:
> I just loaded my first attempt at a B&W inkset for my 7500 last 
night.  It's
> not final yet, but I'm working on the issue.  The vm curves are 
done only
> for the 7000 and PC.  I'm working on a new approach.  Here 
are a few of my
> thoughts.
> 
> Sören Lindqvist wrote:
> >...
> > With an 7500 dedicated for BW inkset, what kind of
> >inkset should I use?
> >...
> 
> Steve K. wrote:
> 
> >The question you need to answer before deciding on inks,
> >is how are you going to control them? ...
> 
> >Option 1) The specialized software almost certainly gives
> >the best results, but particularly at this size, is
> >very expensive. ...
> 
> I hope to have an inkset that will allow a RIP to do a good job, 
but I also
> want the inkset to be controllable by the Epson driver.  That 
puts some
> price pressure on the RIP sellers.  There will (hopefully soon) 
be some new
> RIPs that might be much cheaper than the existing ones.
> 
> >The partitioned workflow approach: When it works well,
> >it works very well also, ...
> 
> I don't know if the 7000 vm curves work on the 7500.  I'm not 
interested in
> the old vm.  The new vm may be a few weeks off.  I'm more 
interested in a
> new version of the vm-s, with a range from slightly 
cool/selenium to sepia.
> 
> >I have been using a ... Epson Archival Black ...
> > for the gray positions, and the new Cone Museum K for 
black.
> 
> That is what is in my 7500 now.  The MIS matte black/PT 
Museum K in the K
> position, Epson Archival Black in the cyan position, then 
dilutions of gray
> and a toner.  The goal is a variable-tone, dual-K machine that 
can print on
> matte or RC papers with software black ink switching.  But, my 
inkset is not
> ready to go yet.  I've been able to do software switching on a 
quad, so I
> think the Epson driver might be able to do it on the 7500.  It's 
going to be
> a few weeks before I have it all sorted out.  I'll, of course, 
publish any
> curves I make that control whatever inkset I end up using.
> 
...
> 
> >There is one other possibility cropping up, that is in the
> >development phase: something called Gimp-print, which is a 
Linux-
> >Unix-Mac OS X printing utility. ...
> 
> I hope this pans out, but I don't think it's quite ready for prime 
time and
> PCs yet.
> 
> Paul
> http://www.PaulRoark.com

Hi Paul,

I'm also interested in your new ink ideas for the 7500.  I
don't have one yet but I'm getting there.  Currently I just
run vm-sepia inks on an 1160.   I'm the one who
started this recent gimp-print flurry.  I've got the OS X 
version working fine.  It eliminates the whole GCR issue
which makes the curve design much easier.  I don't know
if this option is open to you but with some Linux effort
this whole thing could be open to PC machines as well.

Roy

Roy,

If there is a free (or even fairly cheap) RIP that works on PC and does a
good job on the 7500, I'm all ears.  That's exactly what I want.

I have not followed the Gimp-print thread enough to know if that approach is
viable yet on a PC for a non-programmer.  Once it is and someone can explain
it to me well enough to get running, I would move in that direction.

Paul
http://www.PaulRoark.com

________________________________________

  -----Original Message-----
  From: Roy Harrington <roy@...> [mailto:roy@...]
  Sent: Friday, February 07, 2003 4:05 PM
  To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
  Subject: [Digital BW] Re: Epson 7500 what inks should I use?


  --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Paul
  Roark" <paul.roark@v...> wrote:
  > I just loaded my first attempt at a B&W inkset for my 7500 last
  night.  It's
  > not final yet, but I'm working on the issue.  The vm curves are
  done only
  > for the 7000 and PC.  I'm working on a new approach.  Here
  are a few of my
  > thoughts.
  >
  > Sören Lindqvist wrote:
  > >...
  > > With an 7500 dedicated for BW inkset, what kind of
  > >inkset should I use?
  > >...
  >
  > Steve K. wrote:
  >
  > >The question you need to answer before deciding on inks,
  > >is how are you going to control them? ...
  >
  > >Option 1) The specialized software almost certainly gives
  > >the best results, but particularly at this size, is
  > >very expensive. ...
  >
  > I hope to have an inkset that will allow a RIP to do a good job,
  but I also
  > want the inkset to be controllable by the Epson driver.  That
  puts some
  > price pressure on the RIP sellers.  There will (hopefully soon)
  be some new
  > RIPs that might be much cheaper than the existing ones.
  >
  > >The partitioned workflow approach: When it works well,
  > >it works very well also, ...
  >
  > I don't know if the 7000 vm curves work on the 7500.  I'm not
  interested in
  > the old vm.  The new vm may be a few weeks off.  I'm more
  interested in a
  > new version of the vm-s, with a range from slightly
  cool/selenium to sepia.
  >
  > >I have been using a ... Epson Archival Black ...
  > > for the gray positions, and the new Cone Museum K for
  black.
  >
  > That is what is in my 7500 now.  The MIS matte black/PT
  Museum K in the K
  > position, Epson Archival Black in the cyan position, then
  dilutions of gray
  > and a toner.  The goal is a variable-tone, dual-K machine that
  can print on
  > matte or RC papers with software black ink switching.  But, my
  inkset is not
  > ready to go yet.  I've been able to do software switching on a
  quad, so I
  > think the Epson driver might be able to do it on the 7500.  It's
  going to be
  > a few weeks before I have it all sorted out.  I'll, of course,
  publish any
  > curves I make that control whatever inkset I end up using.
  >
  ...
  >
  > >There is one other possibility cropping up, that is in the
  > >development phase: something called Gimp-print, which is a
  Linux-
  > >Unix-Mac OS X printing utility. ...
  >
  > I hope this pans out, but I don't think it's quite ready for prime
  time and
  > PCs yet.
  >
  > Paul
  > http://www.PaulRoark.com

  Hi Paul,

  I'm also interested in your new ink ideas for the 7500.  I
  don't have one yet but I'm getting there.  Currently I just
  run vm-sepia inks on an 1160.   I'm the one who
  started this recent gimp-print flurry.  I've got the OS X
  version working fine.  It eliminates the whole GCR issue
  which makes the curve design much easier.  I don't know
  if this option is open to you but with some Linux effort
  this whole thing could be open to PC machines as well.

  Roy



  Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Roark" 
<paul.roark@v...> wrote:
> Roy,
> 
> If there is a free (or even fairly cheap) RIP that works on PC and 
does a
> good job on the 7500, I'm all ears.  That's exactly what I want.
> 
> I have not followed the Gimp-print thread enough to know if that 
approach is
> viable yet on a PC for a non-programmer.  Once it is and someone 
can explain
> it to me well enough to get running, I would move in that 
direction.
> 
> Paul
> http://www.PaulRoark.com


Yeah me too! I just spent most of last night and half of today 
installing and trying to understand Linux, but I can see that I have 
a lot to learn to implement your gimp-print solution. So if any of 
the folks working on it in Linux would translate it to English at 
some future date, it would be very much appreciated!

Steve K
> ________________________________________
>   -----Original Message-----
>   From: Roy Harrington <roy@h...> [mailto:roy@h...]
>   Sent: Friday, February 07, 2003 4:05 PM
>   To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
>   Subject: [Digital BW] Re: Epson 7500 what inks should I use?
> 
> 
>   --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Paul
>   Roark" <paul.roark@v...> wrote:
>   > I just loaded my first attempt at a B&W inkset for my 7500 last
>   night.  It's
>   > not final yet, but I'm working on the issue.  The vm curves are
>   done only
>   > for the 7000 and PC.  I'm working on a new approach.  Here
>   are a few of my
>   > thoughts.
>   >
>   > Sören Lindqvist wrote:
>   > >...
>   > > With an 7500 dedicated for BW inkset, what kind of
>   > >inkset should I use?
>   > >...
>   >
>   > Steve K. wrote:
>   >
>   > >The question you need to answer before deciding on inks,
>   > >is how are you going to control them? ...
>   >
>   > >Option 1) The specialized software almost certainly gives
>   > >the best results, but particularly at this size, is
>   > >very expensive. ...
>   >
>   > I hope to have an inkset that will allow a RIP to do a good 
job,
>   but I also
>   > want the inkset to be controllable by the Epson driver.  That
>   puts some
>   > price pressure on the RIP sellers.  There will (hopefully soon)
>   be some new
>   > RIPs that might be much cheaper than the existing ones.
>   >
>   > >The partitioned workflow approach: When it works well,
>   > >it works very well also, ...
>   >
>   > I don't know if the 7000 vm curves work on the 7500.  I'm not
>   interested in
>   > the old vm.  The new vm may be a few weeks off.  I'm more
>   interested in a
>   > new version of the vm-s, with a range from slightly
>   cool/selenium to sepia.
>   >
>   > >I have been using a ... Epson Archival Black ...
>   > > for the gray positions, and the new Cone Museum K for
>   black.
>   >
>   > That is what is in my 7500 now.  The MIS matte black/PT
>   Museum K in the K
>   > position, Epson Archival Black in the cyan position, then
>   dilutions of gray
>   > and a toner.  The goal is a variable-tone, dual-K machine that
>   can print on
>   > matte or RC papers with software black ink switching.  But, my
>   inkset is not
>   > ready to go yet.  I've been able to do software switching on a
>   quad, so I
>   > think the Epson driver might be able to do it on the 7500.  
It's
>   going to be
>   > a few weeks before I have it all sorted out.  I'll, of course,
>   publish any
>   > curves I make that control whatever inkset I end up using.
>   >
>   ...
>   >
>   > >There is one other possibility cropping up, that is in the
>   > >development phase: something called Gimp-print, which is a
>   Linux-
>   > >Unix-Mac OS X printing utility. ...
>   >
>   > I hope this pans out, but I don't think it's quite ready for 
prime
>   time and
>   > PCs yet.
>   >
>   > Paul
>   > http://www.PaulRoark.com
> 
>   Hi Paul,
> 
>   I'm also interested in your new ink ideas for the 7500.  I
>   don't have one yet but I'm getting there.  Currently I just
>   run vm-sepia inks on an 1160.   I'm the one who
>   started this recent gimp-print flurry.  I've got the OS X
>   version working fine.  It eliminates the whole GCR issue
>   which makes the curve design much easier.  I don't know
>   if this option is open to you but with some Linux effort
>   this whole thing could be open to PC machines as well.
> 
>   Roy
> 
> 
> 
>   Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, 
Polls and
> other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
> 
>   http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> 
>   If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you 
wish to
> unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting 
this same
> page.
> 
>   Please follow these basic guidelines:
>   - Include your full name with your message.
>   - Include the address of your website, if you have one.
>   - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier 
messages to keep
> them short.
>   - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the 
subject header.
>   - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or
> &amp;amp;quot;flames.&amp;amp;quot;
>   - Complete your Yahoo profile.
>   - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the 
various
> resources on the homepage.
> 
> 
> 
> 
>   Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of 
Service.

> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I've been playing with the 7500 again today and have a few observations that
might be useful.

First, I unchecked the "High Speed" box in the driver.  It substantially
smoothed out some roughness I had.

Second, the Watercolor paper setting is giving me a 1.69 dmax with EEM and
MIS high-load matte black (like Museum black).  (By the way, I have a Museum
black 220 universal cart I'll sell for below cost.)  The second best dmax
appears to be with the Photo Glossy paper setting -- 1.65.

Third, I have persistent micro-banding with radical partitioning curves.  It
did not show up with the OEM inks, and it appears to be less with more mild
curves.

Does anyone know if the shaking of the Epson stand has any effect on the
print quality?

I will probably load the new MIS UC-clone-based vm into the machine in a
week or so.  The original vm worked well in 7000 and 9000 printers, so I
assume it'll be fine in the 7500 -- we'll see.  The MIS UC-clone inks are
excellent for midtones.  The warm end is not quite sepia, but better than
the old vm inkset, and it'll still go plenty cold.

In the meantime, I'm seeing whether the dual-k vms will work if I
re-formulate it to get rid of the weak diluted Epson Arc black.

Paul
http://www.PaulRoark.com

Hi Paul;

A couple things to add about the 7500-

I got rid of another small but noticeable increment of graininess by 
doing a very carefull 'B-head slant' alignment, that got me back to 
round dots instead of oval. 

The other thing I've discovered, is that feeding a large file to the 
Epson driver for a small print results in some rather fuzzy 
downsampling. That surprised me, since I saw no sign of that with 
the 1280 driver. It works much better to resize AND downsample in 
PS, with a final light sharpening than to send it directly to the 
printer. What works even better in terms of sharpness at least, is 
to print it through Qimage - the downsampling and 'smart sharpening' 
they use is extraordinary. It is also CM compliant, though I don't 
know it well enough to tell you if you can use partitioning curves 
with out apllyihg and saving in PS first. Probably not worth the 
nuisance.

DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Roark" 
<paul.roark@v...> wrote:
> I've been playing with the 7500 again today and have a few 
observations that
> might be useful.
> 
> First, I unchecked the "High Speed" box in the driver.  It 
substantially
> smoothed out some roughness I had.
> 
> Second, the Watercolor paper setting is giving me a 1.69 dmax with 
EEM and
> MIS high-load matte black (like Museum black).  (By the way, I 
have a Museum
> black 220 universal cart I'll sell for below cost.)  The second 
best dmax
> appears to be with the Photo Glossy paper setting -- 1.65.
> 
> Third, I have persistent micro-banding with radical partitioning 
curves.  It
> did not show up with the OEM inks, and it appears to be less with 
more mild
> curves.
> 
> Does anyone know if the shaking of the Epson stand has any effect 
on the
> print quality?

$500.00 for the damn thing and it shakes uh?! Merde! I can't help 
there, I couldn't afford the stand so it's on my counter.

> 
> I will probably load the new MIS UC-clone-based vm into the 
machine in a
> week or so.  The original vm worked well in 7000 and 9000 
printers, so I
> assume it'll be fine in the 7500 -- we'll see.  The MIS UC-clone 
inks are
> excellent for midtones.  The warm end is not quite sepia, but 
better than
> the old vm inkset, and it'll still go plenty cold.
> 
> In the meantime, I'm seeing whether the dual-k vms will work if I
> re-formulate it to get rid of the weak diluted Epson Arc black.

Can you get base liquid for the UC-clones? That's what I need most 
right now.

Steve

> 
> Paul
> http://www.PaulRoark.com

----- Original Message -----

From: "Paul Roark" <paul.roark@...>
To: "DigitalB&WPrint" <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, February 09, 2003 11:19 PM
Subject: [Digital BW] Re: Epson 7500 what inks should I use?


> I've been playing with the 7500 again today and have a few observations
that
> might be useful.
>
> First, I unchecked the "High Speed" box in the driver.  It substantially
> smoothed out some roughness I had.

There is a quality increase in the slow setting, however a good head
adjustment for the new inks will increase the quality in all settings.
With Generations and good head adjustment I see small quality differences
between slow and bidirectional. The service manuals are available through
the 9000 (now "EpsonWideFormat") list and archives.

> Third, I have persistent micro-banding with radical partitioning curves.
It
> did not show up with the OEM inks, and it appears to be less with more
mild
> curves.
>
> Does anyone know if the shaking of the Epson stand has any effect on the
> print quality?

It doesn't. The shaking will also keep your pigments suspended :-)

> I will probably load the new MIS UC-clone-based vm into the machine in a
> week or so.  The original vm worked well in 7000 and 9000 printers, so I
> assume it'll be fine in the 7500 -- we'll see.  The MIS UC-clone inks are
> excellent for midtones.  The warm end is not quite sepia, but better than
> the old vm inkset, and it'll still go plenty cold.

With the the 9500 and Generations inks most users got better results with
the 9000 driver. The Generations inks were mixed for the 9000 dye
generation. The 9500 higher voltage to the nozzles may be an advantage for
the UC clones as their rheology probably is different, could be that the
9000 driver isn't then the best choice either.

Ernst

Ernst,

Thanks for responding.

>>... I unchecked the "High Speed" box in the driver.
>>It substantially smoothed out some roughness I had.

>There is a quality increase in the slow setting, however a good head
>adjustment for the new inks will increase the quality in all settings.
>... The service manuals are available through
>the 9000 (now "EpsonWideFormat") list and archives.

I've done the usual alignment that is accessible via the driver.  I've also
checked the B & C Head Slant/Height adjustments through the 7500's display
panel.

Are there any other adjustments that would affect microbanding?

> With the 9500 and Generations inks most users got
>better results with the 9000 driver. The Generations inks
>were mixed for the 9000 dye generation. The 9500 higher voltage
>to the nozzles may be an advantage for
>the UC clones as their rheology probably is different, could
>be that the 9000 driver isn't then the best choice either.

Is there more to "rheology" than viscosity?  (I'm not a chemist.)

One of my theories in purchasing a 7500 was that, being made for pigments,
it might be better for the pigmented inks I use than the 7000.  For example,
it has been my impression that the new "high-load" pigmented inks are close
to the limit that standard desktop printers can handle.  Also, I think, that
the pigmented printers might have some firmware (?) routines for cleaning
that may be useful.

When doing curves for the 7000 and 9000, what I noticed with them is that
the Epson driver gave a lower dmax than the desktop printers.  The 7500, on
the other hand, is said to pump out a lot of ink.  That may also be the
voltage difference you mentioned.  The dmax I'm getting with the
"Watercolor" paper setting is higher than my 1160.  So, it looks like the
7500 does have a better dmax than the 7000 with the Epson driver.

If I do try the 7000 driver, is that anything more to it than just
downloading/installing it?

Paul
http://www.PaulRoark.com

Paul, you wrote:

> I've done the usual alignment that is accessible via the driver.  I've
also
> checked the B & C Head Slant/Height adjustments through the 7500's display
> panel.

Then you are already in service mode for adjusting the heads manually
(screwdriver included). So you have covered all adjustments. It is however
important to do it with the inkset + paper that will be used in printing
later on.

> > With the 9500 and Generations inks most users got
> >better results with the 9000 driver. The Generations inks
> >were mixed for the 9000 dye generation. The 9500 higher voltage
> >to the nozzles may be an advantage for
> >the UC clones as their rheology probably is different, could
> >be that the 9000 driver isn't then the best choice either.
>
> Is there more to "rheology" than viscosity?  (I'm not a chemist.)

It belongs in the physics department I guess. Viscosity, tixothropy, surface
tension, capillary action, electrostatic load etc. Not only on flow in the
ink channels but how it will act in the piezo pump chamber, droplet
formation, impact on the coating, adherence to the coating, flow in the
coating's absorbers. High speed camera shots of droplet formation at the
nozzle exit, that kind of stuff.

>
> One of my theories in purchasing a 7500 was that, being made for pigments,
> it might be better for the pigmented inks I use than the 7000.  For
example,
> it has been my impression that the new "high-load" pigmented inks are
close
> to the limit that standard desktop printers can handle.  Also, I think,
that
> the pigmented printers might have some firmware (?) routines for cleaning
> that may be useful.

There's an additional heavier cleaning in the 9500 firmware compared to the
9000. On the US Epson site there's a firmware upgrade for that purpose.

> When doing curves for the 7000 and 9000, what I noticed with them is that
> the Epson driver gave a lower dmax than the desktop printers.  The 7500,
on
> the other hand, is said to pump out a lot of ink.  That may also be the
> voltage difference you mentioned.  The dmax I'm getting with the
> "Watercolor" paper setting is higher than my 1160.  So, it looks like the
> 7500 does have a better dmax than the 7000 with the Epson driver.

For some time I'm thinking that there is one advantage in the older pro
printers. If you need the heaviest ink load it is unlikely that you get that
with the latest models that combine higher speed with finer droplets and
higher resolution. The density can be increased with higher pigment loads
per ml but there will be a brick wall where the ink viscosity needed for
higher pigment load suspension is too low for the maximum piezo pump
activity possible (at high speed and resolution). To keep the high pigment
load suspended while the ink is static and still get flow at the pumping
action is the trick. Increasing tixothropy is then the way to go, it also
gives a better setting of the ink at the coating so less bleed. Not so nice
for gloss printing though as the ink sets before it gets into the coating.
Glyzerine is most likely the stuff used in the highload pigment inkjet inks.

In offset and silkscreen printing the finer the screen resolution the
thinner the inklayer has to be otherwise dotgain gets out of hand. That
limits the maximum density as well. Making the ink more tixothrophic and
giving it a higher pigmentation will end in less gloss and problems with the
water balance in offset printing. Inkjet printing has more similarity with
(roto)gravure printing (the diazo dyes for example) but part of those rules
will still hold if it was just the detail contrast maximum. That was
gravure's achilles heel.

The 9600/7600/10600/2200 have the advantage of the grey ink of course. Where
3 inks were needed to get a grey with a certain density  there's only one
grey ink needed that probably has a slightly higher density than the darkest
of the CMY inks. Not only does it control the neutrality better it also
reduces the inkload and so less bleed (dotgain) at the same density.

>
> If I do try the 7000 driver, is that anything more to it than just
> downloading/installing it?

For the 9500 it is just like that. I guess it will be the same for the 7500.
Diana York uses the 9000 driver for her 9500 that was (is) loaded with
Generations.

Ernst

I have my latest version of the VM inkset running on the 7500.  UC VM 4.3
(my terminology) is 100% MIS UC clone inks.  By sticking with a
carefully-engineered inkset, the banding of my last experimental effort is
gone; there are no signs of any incompatibilities.

I've been using the 7000 driver with the 7500.  The curves needed to control
the inks appear to be smoother, resulting in very few artifacts and smoother
ramps that I was getting with the native driver.  The printer monitor (ink
levels, etc.) doesn't work, but the driver prints fine anyway.

The output is not as smooth as a modern desktop hextone printer. On very
close inspection I can see some dots or slightly rough dither.  In small
prints, this might be objectionable.  For display prints it's probably
irrelevant.

I'm not sure why the 7500 with the 7000 driver is producing slightly more
prominent dots than the 7000 and 9000 do with the MIS VM inkset.  Factors
could include the 100% pigment (no dye) composition of the UC VM 4.3 inkset.
I suspect the small amount of dye that appears to be in the older inkset
could have softened the edges of those dots.  Also, the VM 4.3 base gray ink
(mostly MIS 7600 Light Black) is warmer.  As such, the color contrast
between the toner and the base gray ink is greater.  Finally, it could be
that the 7500 uses an increased head voltage that pumps out more ink per
dot, making each dot darker.

If the last factor is the source, for display prints I'd opt for the 7500
due to its better blacks, even if it is a bit rougher than the 7000.  I'm
getting 1.68 on new EEM with MIS 7600 matte black (like Museum black) versus
1.59 for the 9000 MIS VM-k on old EAM.  (This would be even lower with new
EEM.)  The 7000 and 9000s I wrote curves for always had weaker blacks than
the desktop units.  This 7500, however, is right up there with the 3000 in
terms of good blacks.

I might add that UC VM 4.3 is balanced to give a print that matches the
lightly-selenium-toned silver print with the "nc" curve.  It's virtually
identical to the PiezoTone Selenium.  On the warm side, it's twice as warm
as the old MIS VM.  The tone matches the albumen prints (good reproductions
I was able to buy from the Getty) of Gustave Le Gray, although the
saturation of the UC VM 4.3 warm is half that of the old albumen prints.  It
cannot reach to full sepia warmth.

So, for display prints, I think this combination -- 7500 & UC VM 4.3 --
makes a good match.  For small prints, keep your modern desktop hextone
printer.

I assume MIS will mix the UC VM 4.3, but that is their decision.  I'm not
sure what name they will assign to it.

Paul
http://www.PaulRoark.com

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Roark" 
<paul.roark@v...> wrote:
> I have my latest version of the VM inkset running on the 7500.  UC 
VM 4.3
> (my terminology) is 100% MIS UC clone inks.  By sticking with a
> carefully-engineered inkset, the banding of my last experimental 
effort is
> gone; there are no signs of any incompatibilities.
> 
> I've been using the 7000 driver with the 7500.  The curves needed 
to control
> the inks appear to be smoother, resulting in very few artifacts 
and smoother
> ramps that I was getting with the native driver.  The printer 
monitor (ink
> levels, etc.) doesn't work, but the driver prints fine anyway.
> 
> The output is not as smooth as a modern desktop hextone printer. 
On very
> close inspection I can see some dots or slightly rough dither.  In 
small
> prints, this might be objectionable.  For display prints it's 
probably
> irrelevant.
> 
> I'm not sure why the 7500 with the 7000 driver is producing 
slightly more
> prominent dots than the 7000 and 9000 do with the MIS VM inkset.  
Factors
> could include the 100% pigment (no dye) composition of the UC VM 
4.3 inkset.
> I suspect the small amount of dye that appears to be in the older 
inkset
> could have softened the edges of those dots.  Also, the VM 4.3 
base gray ink
> (mostly MIS 7600 Light Black) is warmer.  As such, the color 
contrast
> between the toner and the base gray ink is greater.  Finally, it 
could be
> that the 7500 uses an increased head voltage that pumps out more 
ink per
> dot, making each dot darker.
> 
> If the last factor is the source, for display prints I'd opt for 
the 7500
> due to its better blacks, even if it is a bit rougher than the 
7000.  I'm
> getting 1.68 on new EEM with MIS 7600 matte black (like Museum 
black) versus
> 1.59 for the 9000 MIS VM-k on old EAM.  (This would be even lower 
with new
> EEM.)  The 7000 and 9000s I wrote curves for always had weaker 
blacks than
> the desktop units.  This 7500, however, is right up there with the 
3000 in
> terms of good blacks.
> 
> I might add that UC VM 4.3 is balanced to give a print that 
matches the
> lightly-selenium-toned silver print with the "nc" curve.  It's 
virtually
> identical to the PiezoTone Selenium.  On the warm side, it's twice 
as warm
> as the old MIS VM.  The tone matches the albumen prints (good 
reproductions
> I was able to buy from the Getty) of Gustave Le Gray, although the
> saturation of the UC VM 4.3 warm is half that of the old albumen 
prints.  It
> cannot reach to full sepia warmth.
> 
> So, for display prints, I think this combination -- 7500 & UC VM 
4.3 --
> makes a good match.  For small prints, keep your modern desktop 
hextone
> printer.
> 
> I assume MIS will mix the UC VM 4.3, but that is their decision.  
I'm not

> sure what name they will assign to it.
> 
> Paul
> http://www.PaulRoark.com

Hi Paul;


--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Roark" 
<paul.roark@v...> wrote:
> I have my latest version of the VM inkset running on the 7500.  UC 
VM 4.3
> (my terminology) is 100% MIS UC clone inks. > 

Quick work! I hope MIS is just as quick to produce, I can think of a 
couple people awaiting anxiously....
> I'm not sure why the 7500 with the 7000 driver is producing 
slightly more
> prominent dots than the 7000 and 9000 do with the MIS VM inkset.  
Factors
> could include the 100% pigment (no dye) composition of the UC VM 
4.3 inkset.
> I suspect the small amount of dye that appears to be in the older 
inkset
> could have softened the edges of those dots. 

When I first ran my 7500 I had GEN 4 K in it, and it seemed that 
made the problem worse, at least for me. Of course that ink probably 
has a lot more dye in it that the "all pigment" blacks??? 

  Finally, it could be
> that the 7500 uses an increased head voltage that pumps out more 
ink per
> dot, making each dot darker.

This one gets my vote, I think the machine is just set up to spit 
out more black ink to make up for the whimpy D-max of the Arc-K.

I would be curious to compare dot-size & graininess, would you 
consider exchanging a print / grayscale?

Also: For those who where curious I have an amusing horror story to 
report on my efforts to install and learn Linux so I could try Gimp-
print. The short version is; I installed SuSE which seemed to have 
the lates version of everything, couldn't even get my printers to 
work. Formatted the drive, installed Red Hat, could get my printers 
to work. Went back to Suse, still no go. And all this time, mind 
you, damn near nothing else worked either: no modem. no audio, 
rudimentary scanning, Suse wouldn't drive my monitor properly, in 
short, a mess. And then the fun began: I decided to scothch the 
whole thing, but discovered that I couldn't get rid of the Linux 
bootloader. Before I figured out how, I tried 3 'repair 
installations' of Win XP, and the only thing that got 'repaired' was 
my internet connection, I no longer have one, and don't have the 
option of setting up a new one. I am now online through a second 
installation of Win XP on the drive that I had Linux. Bah-humbug!

One note however; for anyone using Linux already, who maybe hasn't 
updated recenlty: The Gimp-print driver that Roy is using is 4.3.4; 
That's still very developmental; the one before that 4.3.3, is 
included in SuSE and other places, and already supports quadtone B&W 
printing. The release notes state that it hasn't been tweaked for 
any particular ink/paper sets, so it would still require some fine-
tuning, but it might be worth checking out for those inclined to 
experiment

Steve K

Steve,

><paul.roark@v...> wrote:
>> I have my latest version of the VM inkset running on the 7500.
>>UC VM 4.3 (my terminology) is 100% MIS UC clone inks. >

>Quick work!

I'm desperate.  I have a show to print for, so this beast has to produce.

>I hope MIS is just as quick to produce, I can think of a
>couple people awaiting anxiously....

MIS seems to respond to polite harassment.  I think MIS is fairly
comfortable with the formula, since it uses inks the are MIS inks and have
been thoroughly tested.

>> I'm not sure why the 7500 with the 7000 driver
>>is producing slightly more prominent dots than the 7000
>>and 9000 do with the MIS VM inkset.
>>... it could be that the 7500 uses an increased head voltage
>>that pumps out more ink per dot, making each dot darker.

>This one gets my vote, I think the machine is just set up to spit
>out more black ink to make up for the whimpy D-max of the Arc-K.

If this is what it takes to get better blacks from the pigments, then I
think I agree with Epson's decision to sacrifice a little smoothness for the
sake of a good black.  In display prints only those looking for the dots
with their noses in the prints will have any chance of seeing any.  I bought
a pair of the strongest reading glasses the local drugstore sells so that I
could duplicate those with nearsightedness (or youth) who stick their noses
into the prints.  At normal viewing distance (Kodak uses 14" to measure
grain) there is no problem.

>I would be curious to compare dot-size & graininess, would you
>consider exchanging a print / grayscale?

Sure.  Maybe we can see if all the 7500s are the same or one of us bought a
turkey.  (On the other hand, maybe ignorance is bliss.)

You might also be interested in seeing the UC VM 4.3 inkset.  I have the
neutral curve essentially final, and the warm curve is tonight's project --
and close to done.  The inkset can go cold also, but I don't have much
interest in going very far in that direction.  I'll make other curves
eventually, but the warm and neutral are the most important for me.  Contact
me off list about the exchange.

Paul
http://www.PaulRoark.com

> 
> One note however; for anyone using Linux already, who maybe 
hasn't 
> updated recenlty: The Gimp-print driver that Roy is using is 
4.3.4; 
> That's still very developmental; the one before that 4.3.3, is 
> included in SuSE and other places, and already supports 
quadtone B&W 
> printing. The release notes state that it hasn't been tweaked for 
> any particular ink/paper sets, so it would still require some 
fine-
> tuning, but it might be worth checking out for those inclined to 
> experiment
> 
> Steve K

Steve,

Assuming I'm the Roy you are referring to  --   the quadtone
printing stuff that I've been working is all with the standard
stable version of gimp-print i.e. 4.2.x  (latest is 4.2.5).
I'm just putting the finishing touchs of packaging it up for
easy installation and use.  I've done it all on Mac OS X but
I am working with someone to get in running on a Linux
system.

Roy

Paul,

> ><paul.roark@v...> wrote:
> >> I have my latest version of the VM inkset running on the
7500.
> >>UC VM 4.3 (my terminology) is 100% MIS UC clone inks. >
>
> >Quick work!
>
> I'm desperate.  I have a show to print for, so this beast has
to produce.
>
> >I hope MIS is just as quick to produce, I can think of a
> >couple people awaiting anxiously....
>
> MIS seems to respond to polite harassment.  I think MIS is
fairly
> comfortable with the formula, since it uses inks the are MIS
inks and have
> been thoroughly tested.

I wrote them ten days ago that I would like to order a pint set
as soon as the formula was finished. They wrote back that I
should wait for the announcement on the website. Any idea how
long it will take ?

Ernst

----- Original Message -----

From: <stevek@...>
To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, February 17, 2003 2:47 AM
Subject: [Digital BW] Re: Epson 7500 what inks should I use?

> Quick work! I hope MIS is just as quick to produce, I can think
of a
> couple people awaiting anxiously....
> > I'm not sure why the 7500 with the 7000 driver is producing
> slightly more
> > prominent dots than the 7000 and 9000 do with the MIS VM
inkset.
> Factors
> > could include the 100% pigment (no dye) composition of the UC
VM
> 4.3 inkset.
> > I suspect the small amount of dye that appears to be in the
older
> inkset
> > could have softened the edges of those dots.
>
> When I first ran my 7500 I had GEN 4 K in it, and it seemed
that
> made the problem worse, at least for me. Of course that ink
probably
> has a lot more dye in it that the "all pigment" blacks???
>
>   Finally, it could be
> > that the 7500 uses an increased head voltage that pumps out
more
> ink per
> > dot, making each dot darker.
>
> This one gets my vote, I think the machine is just set up to
spit
> out more black ink to make up for the whimpy D-max of the
Arc-K.

One of the few things that actually change in the 9000 to 9500
upgrade is the firmware. There are new hardware parts installed
but that is only to get rid of the old inks, the hardware parts
are the same 9000 parts. In the firmware there's an extra
cleaning setting + a higher voltage/frequency for the heads +
possibly other changes we are not aware of. At least the
identity: the XP 9500 Epson status monitor will not accept the
9000 as a substitute for a 9500, trying that right now so it may
be my fault. Can't find the 9000 Status Monitor for XP so far.

The paper settings in all the Epson drivers have a special
inklimit per setting. The variation is not that much however. In
the Wasatch SoftRip that I have you have to set that limit
yourself and then it is quite easy to get a far higher density of
the black and depending on the paper more or less bleed. So
having a 7000 or a 9000 doesn't mean that the max ink amount
printed is so hardware/firmware limitated that you can't use it.
GIMP-Print should be the cheap way to get a maximum inklimit
setting possible for a given ink/paper combination. My guess is
that the new UC + clones will bleed less due to the viscosity
difference and so the inklimit can be set higher than with dyes
or the first generation third party pigment inks.

In the 9000 Epson driver the 1440 settings give slightly more
black ink than 720 dpi, speed doesn't make any difference and
Photo Quality Glossy Paper gives a higher black density than
SemiGloss Photo paper. There's however more UCR or GCR done in
the Photo Quality Glossy paper setting so for colour printing so
this choice isn't always the nicest but hard edge colour printing
gets better with the PQGP setting including large black areas.
I've measured the differences for black only on German Etching
but do not have the absolute figures anymore. All minute
differences if compared to RIP inklimit changes.

> And then the fun began: I decided to scothch the
> whole thing, but discovered that I couldn't get rid of the
Linux
> bootloader. Before I figured out how, I tried 3 'repair
> installations' of Win XP, and the only thing that got
'repaired' was
> my internet connection, I no longer have one, and don't have
the
> option of setting up a new one. I am now online through a
second
> installation of Win XP on the drive that I had Linux.
Bah-humbug!

Had the same experience with a Suse trial maybe 2 years ago. In
the end I did a low level format of the disc on an Acorn Risc Os
machine, after that it was easy to get it ready for Windows
partitioning again. It is possible to get rid of it with other
means but I don't recall how. It should be in the Suse manuals.

Ernst

Hello Steven K.

If you still have the Linux boot loader, just dig out an old Win95 
or Win98 boot floppy and run fdisk /mbr and reboot. Voila! No linux 
boot loader.

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Steven 
Karafyllakis <stevek@e...>" <stevek@e...> wrote:
> Hi Paul;
> 
> 
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Roark" 
> <paul.roark@v...> wrote:
> > I have my latest version of the VM inkset running on the 7500.  
UC 
> VM 4.3
> > (my terminology) is 100% MIS UC clone inks. > 
> 
> Quick work! I hope MIS is just as quick to produce, I can think of 
a 
> couple people awaiting anxiously....
> > I'm not sure why the 7500 with the 7000 driver is producing 
> slightly more
> > prominent dots than the 7000 and 9000 do with the MIS VM 
inkset.  
> Factors
> > could include the 100% pigment (no dye) composition of the UC VM 
> 4.3 inkset.
> > I suspect the small amount of dye that appears to be in the 
older 
> inkset
> > could have softened the edges of those dots. 
> 
> When I first ran my 7500 I had GEN 4 K in it, and it seemed that 
> made the problem worse, at least for me. Of course that ink 
probably 
> has a lot more dye in it that the "all pigment" blacks??? 
> 
>   Finally, it could be
> > that the 7500 uses an increased head voltage that pumps out more 
> ink per
> > dot, making each dot darker.
> 
> This one gets my vote, I think the machine is just set up to spit 
> out more black ink to make up for the whimpy D-max of the Arc-K.
> 
> I would be curious to compare dot-size & graininess, would you 
> consider exchanging a print / grayscale?
> 
> Also: For those who where curious I have an amusing horror story 
to 
> report on my efforts to install and learn Linux so I could try 
Gimp-
> print. The short version is; I installed SuSE which seemed to have 
> the lates version of everything, couldn't even get my printers to 
> work. Formatted the drive, installed Red Hat, could get my 
printers 
> to work. Went back to Suse, still no go. And all this time, mind 
> you, damn near nothing else worked either: no modem. no audio, 
> rudimentary scanning, Suse wouldn't drive my monitor properly, in 
> short, a mess. And then the fun began: I decided to scothch the 
> whole thing, but discovered that I couldn't get rid of the Linux 
> bootloader. Before I figured out how, I tried 3 'repair 
> installations' of Win XP, and the only thing that got 'repaired' 
was 
> my internet connection, I no longer have one, and don't have the 
> option of setting up a new one. I am now online through a second 
> installation of Win XP on the drive that I had Linux. Bah-humbug!
> 
> One note however; for anyone using Linux already, who maybe hasn't 
> updated recenlty: The Gimp-print driver that Roy is using is 
4.3.4; 
> That's still very developmental; the one before that 4.3.3, is 
> included in SuSE and other places, and already supports quadtone 
B&W 

> printing. The release notes state that it hasn't been tweaked for 
> any particular ink/paper sets, so it would still require some fine-
> tuning, but it might be worth checking out for those inclined to 
> experiment
> 
> Steve K

Paul, what is the MIS VM 4.3 inkset?

Jerry

Ernst,

>><paul.roark@v...> wrote:
>> ... latest version of the VM inkset running on the 7500.
>>UC VM 4.3 (my terminology) is 100% MIS UC clone inks. >
>> ... I think MIS is fairly
>> comfortable with the formula, since it uses inks the
>>are MIS inks and have been thoroughly tested.

>I wrote them ten days ago that I would like to order a pint set
>as soon as the formula was finished. They wrote back that I
>should wait for the announcement on the website. Any idea how
>long it will take ?

I don't know when MIS will be ready to sell the mix.  When you wrote to them
10 days ago things were much more unsettled.  My use of the Epson Archival
black in a couple of formulas turned out to be a mistake.  It faded and
messed up the rheology of the inkset.  This new mix, by staying with an
inkset that is made to work together, avoids the rheology problems, and the
MIS UC clone inks do very well in the fade testing.

>>... it could be that the 7500 uses an increased head voltage
>>that pumps out more ink per dot, making each dot darker.

>One of the few things that actually change in the 9000 to 9500
>upgrade is the firmware. ... In the firmware there's an extra
>cleaning setting + a higher voltage/frequency for the heads +
>possibly other changes we are not aware of.

In looking at the dots under a loupe, I can barely see the light gray in the
highlights.  However, further down the ramp, but still where the only ink in
the "warm" curve print is the light gray (which is in the yellow ink
position -- no built-in cross-overs), I see some roughness.  So, I think
that the main thing I'm seeing with my nose in the test strips is a dither
pattern.

> At least the identity: the XP 9500 Epson status monitor
>will not accept the 9000 as a substitute for a 9500, ...

When I use the 7000 diver with the 7500, the status monitor doesn't work.
This isn't a big deal to me, as long as use of the 7000 driver is not doing
any damage to the printer.

>The paper settings in all the Epson drivers have a special
>inklimit per setting. ...

With the 7500 driver the best/darkest black was the Watercolor - Radiant
White.  With the 7000 driver, Mike Kravit did quite a bit of experimenting
when we worked on the first set of vm curves and found that the Photo Paper
setting was the smoothest.  I find that on the 7500, the 7000 driver set to
Photo Paper gives a black that is as good if not a hair better than the
7500-Watercolor setting.  I get 1.68 with MIS 7600 Matte Black (probably the
same ink as PiezoTone Museum).  Given the outstanding fade characteristics
of this/these inks, I'm very happy with this level of performance.  It's as
good as I was getting with the 3000 and MIS VM/FS black with the old EAM,
and noticeably better than I can get with the new EAM/EEM and VM/FS black.

>GIMP-Print should be the cheap way to get a maximum inklimit
>setting possible for a given ink/paper combination.

I hope the computer guys can get this running for us PC users.  It sounds
most interesting.

> In the 9000 Epson driver ... Photo Quality Glossy Paper
>gives a higher black density than SemiGloss Photo paper. ...

That is the paper setting I used for 9000s also.  With the 7000 driver and
the 7500, it looks like Photo Paper is just a hair darker than PQIJ.

>... All minute differences if compared to RIP inklimit changes.

Yes, I'm sure that is the case.  I'll be curious what kind of black dmax you
can get with your RIP when you get these inks.

With the 7000 I noticed those running the PiezoPro driver were achieving
deeper blacks than the Epson driver could produce with the 7000.  I assumed
the 1.7 range the PiezoPro was achieving with PiezoBW K (essentially the
same as MIS FS-K) on old EAM was about the limit of what that paper could
hold.  This is good, but not enough of a difference from the 1.68 the 3000
and now 7500 can get to make me spend $1500.

Paul
http://www.PaulRoark.com

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Ernst Dinkla" 
<> Had the same experience with a Suse trial maybe 2 years ago. In
> the end I did a low level format of the disc on an Acorn Risc Os
> machine, after that it was easy to get it ready for Windows
> partitioning again. It is possible to get rid of it with other
> means but I don't recall how. It should be in the Suse manuals.
> 
> Ernst

In the interest of saving others a lot of trouble, this is the easy 
way to get of the Linux bootloader:

A) boot your system with a Windows 98 bootsdisk, or any other 
bootdisk that has FDISK on it.
B) When you get to the DOS prompt, type in :  fdisk/mbr  and hit 
enter.
The next time Win boots up it'll put up a notice that the boot-
record is missing, so it has to boot from a previous profile. Let 
it. That's all there is to it, I wish I had trusted the info when I 
first got it, it would've saved me a whole lot of time.

Steve K

>I wrote them ten days ago that I would like to order a pint set
as soon as the formula was finished. They wrote back that I
should wait for the announcement on the website. Any idea how
long it will take ?<



This is the answer I got from MIS

 

As soon as we know it has good fade resistance.  It takes a couple of
weeks.

 

Regards

Soren

 







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