Digital BW, The Print

The digital camera discussion/debate comes up from time to time, and while it does have relevance to the digital production of black and white prints, the current threads have pretty much wandered off the topic of this list.

Please wrap this up, take it off list or to another more appropriate list.

Thanks, 
Martin Wesley




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

For: Martin Wesley

> The digital camera discussion/debate......have pretty much wandered 
> off the topic of this list.
> Please wrap this up, take it off list or to another more appropriate 
> list.

Martin, thanks. I am of Sue's opinion and am grateful for your posting. 
It seems to me that people should realize that when a thread gets 
beyond a certain point and there only two-four poster, they would be 
better served just to e-mail each other directly rather than burdening 
the whole group with their "facsinating" discussion. Austin advised Sue:

> If you don't like a discussion, or the person posting, just delete the
> posts, instead of whining.

Funny, that he doesn't realize that most list members get this list as 
a daily digest and cannot delete postings but have to scroll through 
miles of nonsense.

Which brings me to my other point: this list is particularly annoying 
in that most posters don't bother to "snip" quotes but often, actually, 
most of the time, quote entire postings or even a whole thread of 
postings. Could you please post a message asking people to snip? I'll 
do so, but a posting from you would be a lot more authoritative.

--Mitch/Bangkok

> > Austin advised Sue:
>
> > If you don't like a discussion, or the person posting, just delete the
> > posts, instead of whining.
>
> Funny, that he doesn't realize that most list members get this list as
> a daily digest and cannot delete postings but have to scroll through
> miles of nonsense.

Mitch,

What may seem "nonsense" to you, is not to others.  It's unfair to expect
that people adhere to YOUR view of what is and isn't "nonsense".  The
discussion I was involved in, that you and Sue took issue with, WAS on
topic, was a (mostly) technical discussion, was not flaming, or juvenile.
For you to call it, or anyone's posts "nonsense" is simply offensive and
quite disrespectful.

Getting the digest is a choice.  Let's say you consider metamerism not of
interest to you, but it is a "hot" topic of the day, and obviously of
interest to others.  You'll still get dozens of posts on this one topic,
that don't interest you.  It's just part of getting an email list via
digest.  If it's a problem, you can always just read the posts on-line, and
read what you want.

Austin

I agree with the others that have posted. This mindless pedantry is lowering
the value of the list.

I'm no longer on the Leica User Group (LUG) because of two people: Austin
and Anthony.

The arguments usually go like this:

Other: yes it is
Austin: no it isn't
Other: yes it is
Austin: no it isn't

and drag on for days; ad nauseam. And don't forget: Austin is NEVER wrong.
There are people that validate their ego by arguing for the sake of arguing
(Will Austin argue with that statement?). If you complain you will be told
to quit "whining".

And he will use his brand of logic:

> Getting the digest is a choice.  Let's say you consider metamerism not of
> interest to you, but it is a "hot" topic of the day, and obviously of
> interest to others.  You'll still get dozens of posts on this one topic,
> that don't interest you.

The difference here is that metamerism is on topic; his pissing matches
aren't. He doesn't see the difference or will use some tenuous link to state
that his posts are on topic.

It's just part of getting an email list via
> digest.  If it's a problem, you can always just read the posts on-line, and
> read what you want.

I, too, like getting the digest. But I'm going to CHOOSE to get the
individual posts so I can start filtering. Which is unfortunate. I think the
group owners do a good job, but I wish they would step in sooner.

Back to lurking and learning (and waiting for the invective),

Jon

Jon,

I am responded to you on-list, because your "commentary" was done on-list.

Your post is clearly nothing more than an ad hominim attack, easily done
when you don't even use your real name, and from behind a computer screen.
It's funny you send it half a day after the discussion had been over with.
Obviously, you just wanted to "slap me around a bit" in public.

It's reasonably clear your only point is to attempt to belittle and degrade
me in public.  If you really had any consideration for the other
participants of the list, you wouldn't do that, unless you needed them as
spectators.

On-list personal "comments" as yours are clearly inappropriate, and far more
off-topic than the those you and others "complained" about.  It's juvenile
antics like yours that lowers the quality of discussion, not some allegedly
off-topic posts.

It's interesting you would only attack me, even though there were quite a
few other far more off topic posts that I had not one bit of participation
in.

Your post, as well as the others of similar ink, are entirely
hypocritical...as they are so far off-topic, which is what you are so
self-righteously whining about.  You could have just as easily, and far more
appropriately, sent personal emails to people and asked that they curtail
the discussion, or simply posted a respectful request to the list, instead
of the personal comments that were posted.

There is nothing wrong with requesting that people not continue a discussion
that YOU consider off-topic, and there are appropriate ways to do so without
making it personal, or whining, as was done.  People are more likely to
consider your "request" if you ask appropriately, than if you simply
belittle and/or degrade them.  You have to realize your request is just
that, a request, and that you are in no position to demand that someone stop
a discussion that you feel is off-topic as they may feel it is on-topic.
That absolute power is reserved for the list owners, not you.

Austin

Actually Austin,
Your "posts" do go on and on without a point. It's for this reason 
that I only read the posts once in a while and do not subscribe to 
email. You are not the only one guilty of this, it defeats the 
objective nature of this forum. 
Your posts go on and on until you have beating the challanger into 
boredom.
Why don't you and the others who do this start their own independant 
forum? I am sure you will have a lot of posts...

Lets keep this forum to the subject and not off topic.
I am sure you have a lot to offer technically.

Barry--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Austin 
Franklin" <darkroom@i...> wrote:
> Jon,
> 
> I am responded to you on-list, because your "commentary" was done 
on-list.
> 
> Your post is clearly nothing more than an ad hominim attack, 
easily done
> when you don't even use your real name, and from behind a computer 
screen.
> It's funny you send it half a day after the discussion had been 
over with.
> Obviously, you just wanted to "slap me around a bit" in public.
> 
> It's reasonably clear your only point is to attempt to belittle 
and degrade
> me in public.  If you really had any consideration for the other
> participants of the list, you wouldn't do that, unless you needed 
them as
> spectators.
> 
> On-list personal "comments" as yours are clearly inappropriate, 
and far more
> off-topic than the those you and others "complained" about.  It's 
juvenile
> antics like yours that lowers the quality of discussion, not some 
allegedly
> off-topic posts.
> 
> It's interesting you would only attack me, even though there were 
quite a
> few other far more off topic posts that I had not one bit of 
participation
> in.
> 
> Your post, as well as the others of similar ink, are entirely
> hypocritical...as they are so far off-topic, which is what you are 
so
> self-righteously whining about.  You could have just as easily, 
and far more
> appropriately, sent personal emails to people and asked that they 
curtail
> the discussion, or simply posted a respectful request to the list, 
instead
> of the personal comments that were posted.
> 
> There is nothing wrong with requesting that people not continue a 
discussion
> that YOU consider off-topic, and there are appropriate ways to do 
so without
> making it personal, or whining, as was done.  People are more 
likely to
> consider your "request" if you ask appropriately, than if you 
simply
> belittle and/or degrade them.  You have to realize your request is 
just
> that, a request, and that you are in no position to demand that 
someone stop
> a discussion that you feel is off-topic as they may feel it is on-
topic.

> That absolute power is reserved for the list owners, not you.
> 
> Austin