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Neutral B&W -- 2200 + UC VM update

Neutral B&W -- 2200 + UC VM update

2003-03-04 by Paul Roark

With respect the issue of achieving a neutral print with the 2200,

Michael wrote:

>... getting neutral B&W varies dramatically from paper to paper
>and the Premium Luster paper is one of the
>more difficult to achieve this on.   ...

Even B&W ("quad") inksets have problems with this.

In fact, that is one reason why my UC VM 4.3 has turned out to not be the
final formula.  It was average in this respect.  For example, while vm 4.3
printed neutral (with a magenta/selenium bias) on EEM/EAM (50% patch, vm
"nc" curve), it was 2 units warm (meaning Y - C = 0.02) on Premium Luster.
PiezoTone Selenium ink prints just like VM 4.3 on EEM, but is 2-3 units warm
on PhotoRag.

Can one inkset be relatively neutral on more than one paper?  Especially
when we're talking about both matte and RC papers, it's not a trivial
problem.  (Consider all the profiling issues and software for the color
inksets.)

The good news is that I've been able to mix different pigments and make a
toner that is much more stable across paper types.  (The UC VM grays will
remain pure carbon.)  The current UC VM 4.52, at the 50% patch achieves the
following X-Rite spectrophotometer readings with the standard 1160 vm "nc"
curve:

EEM/EAM - 		C = 0.65, M = 0.66, Y = 0.65

UltraSmooth - 	C = 0.61, M = 0.61, Y = 0.61

(I believe Epson UltraSmooth will be the major cotton paper in a year.)

Premium Luster - 	C = 0.60, M = 0.61, Y = 0.60

Eclipse Satine (with the vm "mw" curve)

			C = 0.56, M = 0.57, Y = 0.56

PhotoRag - 		C = 0.60, M = 0.61, Y = 0.61

Photo Paper - 	C = 0.66, M = 0.67, Y = 0.67.



So, the issue is definitely not trivial, but combining different pigments
can achieve an inkset that, even if not perfect, is much more consistent in
it's tone across various papers.

The process reminds my of how lenses are made from glasses with different
refractive indices to correct optical aberrations.  You can offset the
defects of one with the different defects of another.  (Single-meniscus
lenses just don't cut it any more.)

Paul
http://www.PaulRoark.com

Variable tones across papers was Re: [Digital BW] Neutral B&W -- 2200 + UC VM update

2003-03-05 by Robert Morrison

I have a set of prints made with both the Neutral-Warm and Selenium
Piezotones across about 10 different matte papers.  I reported on this
probably 6 months ago...but the range of tone across these papers is
staggering with the inkset's actually crossing each other depending on the
paper.  I've always viewed this as similar to the darkroom where different
papers and conditions will give different results and everyone has their
preferred configurations.  Of course it would be great to be able to get any
tone on any paper...but that is certainly not how BW photography has
traditionally been.

Robert
Show quoted textHide quoted text
On 3/4/03 8:24 AM, "Paul Roark" <paul.roark@...> wrote:

> With respect the issue of achieving a neutral print with the 2200,
> 
> Michael wrote:
> 
>> ... getting neutral B&W varies dramatically from paper to paper
>> and the Premium Luster paper is one of the
>> more difficult to achieve this on.   ...
> 
> Even B&W ("quad") inksets have problems with this.
> 
> In fact, that is one reason why my UC VM 4.3 has turned out to not be the
> final formula.  It was average in this respect.  For example, while vm 4.3
> printed neutral (with a magenta/selenium bias) on EEM/EAM (50% patch, vm
> "nc" curve), it was 2 units warm (meaning Y - C = 0.02) on Premium Luster.
> PiezoTone Selenium ink prints just like VM 4.3 on EEM, but is 2-3 units warm
> on PhotoRag.
> 
> Can one inkset be relatively neutral on more than one paper?  Especially
> when we're talking about both matte and RC papers, it's not a trivial
> problem.  (Consider all the profiling issues and software for the color
> inksets.)
> 
> The good news is that I've been able to mix different pigments and make a
> toner that is much more stable across paper types.  (The UC VM grays will
> remain pure carbon.)  The current UC VM 4.52, at the 50% patch achieves the
> following X-Rite spectrophotometer readings with the standard 1160 vm "nc"
> curve:
> 
> EEM/EAM -         C = 0.65, M = 0.66, Y = 0.65
> 
> UltraSmooth -     C = 0.61, M = 0.61, Y = 0.61
> 
> (I believe Epson UltraSmooth will be the major cotton paper in a year.)
> 
> Premium Luster -     C = 0.60, M = 0.61, Y = 0.60
> 
> Eclipse Satine (with the vm "mw" curve)
> 
> C = 0.56, M = 0.57, Y = 0.56
> 
> PhotoRag -         C = 0.60, M = 0.61, Y = 0.61
> 
> Photo Paper -     C = 0.66, M = 0.67, Y = 0.67.
> 
> 
> 
> So, the issue is definitely not trivial, but combining different pigments
> can achieve an inkset that, even if not perfect, is much more consistent in
> it's tone across various papers.
> 
> The process reminds my of how lenses are made from glasses with different
> refractive indices to correct optical aberrations.  You can offset the
> defects of one with the different defects of another.  (Single-meniscus
> lenses just don't cut it any more.)
> 
> Paul
> http://www.PaulRoark.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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