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2200 epiphany

2200 epiphany

2003-03-07 by digikdm

After numerous test prints under a variety of settings using nascent 
epson software provided with the printer and no third party RIP,the 
combination that I found works best for B&W prints is as follows:
1. WORK  AND PRINT in Adobe1998 color space. DO NOT use any "Epson 
print space" settings( such as Epson 2200 matte MK) or you will be 
rewarded with a spectrum of casts, usually magenta and /or green,  
depending on other settings. Obviously , I did not try every color 
space combination , but the above seems to work.
2. Always use the photorealistic color setting under the "advanced" 
settings.Do not use "no color management" or you'll be rewarded with
smudged shadow areas /loss of detail.
3.For best results with minimal color shifts in various lighting, use 
Matte paper and matte black ink.

With these settings I've found that my grays and blacks actually 
match what I see on the monitor.I've have only dealt with B&W and 
don't know if the above holds up for color prints. I am satisfied 
with the prints I'm getting  now , but I wish Epson would refund all 
the ink and paper I used to come to this conclusion.Their manual that 
comes with the printer will send you off in the wrong direction for 
B&W.Maybe this will save someone else many hours of frustration.

Re: 2200 epiphany

2003-03-07 by Peter Nelson

The workflow you describe works better than any other with 
the stock Epson software, but it still produces unacceptable
levels of metamerism.

Peter Palmieri recently sent me some sample prints made
with the Epson RIP that were very impressive.  After seeing
them and comparing them with IP RIP output I can't see any 
reason to spend the big bucks on the IP RIP.



--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "digikdm" 
<monroekd@h...> wrote:
> After numerous test prints under a variety of settings using 
nascent 
> epson software provided with the printer and no third party RIP,the 
> combination that I found works best for B&W prints is as follows:
> 1. WORK  AND PRINT in Adobe1998 color space. DO NOT use any "Epson 
> print space" settings( such as Epson 2200 matte MK) or you will be 
> rewarded with a spectrum of casts, usually magenta and /or green,  
> depending on other settings. Obviously , I did not try every color 
> space combination , but the above seems to work.
> 2. Always use the photorealistic color setting under the "advanced" 
> settings.Do not use "no color management" or you'll be rewarded with
> smudged shadow areas /loss of detail.
> 3.For best results with minimal color shifts in various lighting, 
use 
> Matte paper and matte black ink.
> 
> With these settings I've found that my grays and blacks actually 
> match what I see on the monitor.I've have only dealt with B&W and 
> don't know if the above holds up for color prints. I am satisfied 
> with the prints I'm getting  now , but I wish Epson would refund 
all 
> the ink and paper I used to come to this conclusion.Their manual 
that 
> comes with the printer will send you off in the wrong direction for 
> B&W.Maybe this will save someone else many hours of frustration.

Re: [Digital BW] 2200 epiphany

2003-03-07 by Richard Sintchak

Friday, March 7, 2003, 4:53:44 AM, digikdm wrote:

d> 1. WORK  AND PRINT in Adobe1998 color space. DO NOT use any "Epson 
d> print space" settings( such as Epson 2200 matte MK) or you will be 
d> rewarded with a spectrum of casts, usually magenta and /or green,  
d> depending on other settings. Obviously , I did not try every color 
d> space combination , but the above seems to work.


Thanks for the tip. I will try this. One question: What setting do you
use under Print Space, Profile setting? Same as Source? Printer Color
Management?

Best regards,
 Richard  

mailto:richard@...

L i n k s  t o  m y  g a l l e r i e s:
http://fujirangefinder.com/document.php?id=246

Re: 2200 epiphany (questions)

2003-03-07 by Robert

A couple questions for clarification:

Under Photoshop's Print Space/Profile, do you indicate "Adobe RGB" 
or "Same as Source"?

Also, in your Epson settings, do you mark "Color Controls", Mode 
= "Photorealistic", and leave Epson Natural Color unchecked?

Lastly, just what does "Photorealistic" really do?

Thanks
Robert Ades

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "digikdm" 
<monroekd@h...> wrote:
> After numerous test prints under a variety of settings using 
nascent 
> epson software provided with the printer and no third party RIP,the 
> combination that I found works best for B&W prints is as follows:
> 1. WORK  AND PRINT in Adobe1998 color space. DO NOT use any "Epson 
> print space" settings( such as Epson 2200 matte MK) or you will be 
> rewarded with a spectrum of casts, usually magenta and /or green,  
> depending on other settings. Obviously , I did not try every color 
> space combination , but the above seems to work.
> 2. Always use the photorealistic color setting under the "advanced" 
> settings.Do not use "no color management" or you'll be rewarded with
> smudged shadow areas /loss of detail.
> 3.For best results with minimal color shifts in various lighting, 
use 
> Matte paper and matte black ink.
> 
> With these settings I've found that my grays and blacks actually 
> match what I see on the monitor.I've have only dealt with B&W and 
> don't know if the above holds up for color prints. I am satisfied 
> with the prints I'm getting  now , but I wish Epson would refund 
all 
> the ink and paper I used to come to this conclusion.Their manual 
that 
> comes with the printer will send you off in the wrong direction for 
> B&W.Maybe this will save someone else many hours of frustration.

Re: 2200 epiphany (questions)

2003-03-07 by digikdm

I actually select adobe rgb in the print space because some of my 
images are in grayscale rather than adobe rgb. if your image is in 
adobe rgb, i'm not sure if it would matter if you selected "same as 
source" or adobe rgb. it would appear to make no difference , but you 
could test it.
i am working in OS 9, and i believe that the natural color box is 
automatically not checked in the photorealistic mode. So for me , 
that is unchecked all the time.
as far a what photorealistic does , i'm not sure. but without it,
you will get muddy shadows. you're not talking to an expert here.
i got to this point by trial and error.
do my prints still show some unwanted tinting... yes, but it's 
minimal, and i am willing to accept the situation as is for the time 
being. The match-up with the mi monitor is pretty darn close. i'm 
considering a RIP from epson or IP , but i'm going to wait for a 
while and just keep digitallizing my backlog of images.










--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Robert" 
<LA_Native@h...> wrote:
> A couple questions for clarification:
> 
> Under Photoshop's Print Space/Profile, do you indicate "Adobe RGB" 
> or "Same as Source"?
> 
> Also, in your Epson settings, do you mark "Color Controls", Mode 
> = "Photorealistic", and leave Epson Natural Color unchecked?
> 
> Lastly, just what does "Photorealistic" really do?
> 
> Thanks
> Robert Ades
> 
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "digikdm" 
> <monroekd@h...> wrote:
> > After numerous test prints under a variety of settings using 
> nascent 
> > epson software provided with the printer and no third party 
RIP,the 
> > combination that I found works best for B&W prints is as follows:
> > 1. WORK  AND PRINT in Adobe1998 color space. DO NOT use 
any "Epson 
> > print space" settings( such as Epson 2200 matte MK) or you will 
be 
> > rewarded with a spectrum of casts, usually magenta and /or 
green,  
> > depending on other settings. Obviously , I did not try every 
color 
> > space combination , but the above seems to work.
> > 2. Always use the photorealistic color setting under 
the "advanced" 
> > settings.Do not use "no color management" or you'll be rewarded 
with
> > smudged shadow areas /loss of detail.
> > 3.For best results with minimal color shifts in various lighting, 
> use 
> > Matte paper and matte black ink.
> > 
> > With these settings I've found that my grays and blacks actually 
> > match what I see on the monitor.I've have only dealt with B&W and 
> > don't know if the above holds up for color prints. I am satisfied 
> > with the prints I'm getting  now , but I wish Epson would refund 
> all 
> > the ink and paper I used to come to this conclusion.Their manual 
> that 
> > comes with the printer will send you off in the wrong direction 
for 
> > B&W.Maybe this will save someone else many hours of frustration.

Re: 2200 epiphany (questions)

2003-03-07 by Robert

Thanks for the reply.  It sounds like we're doing things the same way 
(although I'm printing from a Windows PC).  My output does have a 
noticeably blueish cast, but the shadows do seem a bit "lifted" with 
the Photorealistic box checked.

-Robert

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "digikdm" 
<monroekd@h...> wrote:
> I actually select adobe rgb in the print space because some of my 
> images are in grayscale rather than adobe rgb. if your image is in 
> adobe rgb, i'm not sure if it would matter if you selected "same as 
> source" or adobe rgb. it would appear to make no difference , but 
you 
> could test it.
> i am working in OS 9, and i believe that the natural color box is 
> automatically not checked in the photorealistic mode. So for me , 
> that is unchecked all the time.
> as far a what photorealistic does , i'm not sure. but without it,
> you will get muddy shadows. you're not talking to an expert here.
> i got to this point by trial and error.
> do my prints still show some unwanted tinting... yes, but it's 
> minimal, and i am willing to accept the situation as is for the 
time 
> being. The match-up with the mi monitor is pretty darn close. i'm 
> considering a RIP from epson or IP , but i'm going to wait for a 
> while and just keep digitallizing my backlog of images.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Robert" 
> <LA_Native@h...> wrote:
> > A couple questions for clarification:
> > 
> > Under Photoshop's Print Space/Profile, do you indicate "Adobe 
RGB" 
> > or "Same as Source"?
> > 
> > Also, in your Epson settings, do you mark "Color Controls", Mode 
> > = "Photorealistic", and leave Epson Natural Color unchecked?
> > 
> > Lastly, just what does "Photorealistic" really do?
> > 
> > Thanks
> > Robert Ades
> > 
> > --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "digikdm" 
> > <monroekd@h...> wrote:
> > > After numerous test prints under a variety of settings using 
> > nascent 
> > > epson software provided with the printer and no third party 
> RIP,the 
> > > combination that I found works best for B&W prints is as 
follows:
> > > 1. WORK  AND PRINT in Adobe1998 color space. DO NOT use 
> any "Epson 
> > > print space" settings( such as Epson 2200 matte MK) or you will 
> be 
> > > rewarded with a spectrum of casts, usually magenta and /or 
> green,  
> > > depending on other settings. Obviously , I did not try every 
> color 
> > > space combination , but the above seems to work.
> > > 2. Always use the photorealistic color setting under 
> the "advanced" 
> > > settings.Do not use "no color management" or you'll be rewarded 
> with
> > > smudged shadow areas /loss of detail.
> > > 3.For best results with minimal color shifts in various 
lighting, 
> > use 
> > > Matte paper and matte black ink.
> > > 
> > > With these settings I've found that my grays and blacks 
actually 
> > > match what I see on the monitor.I've have only dealt with B&W 
and 
> > > don't know if the above holds up for color prints. I am 
satisfied 
> > > with the prints I'm getting  now , but I wish Epson would 
refund 
> > all 
> > > the ink and paper I used to come to this conclusion.Their 
manual 
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> > that 
> > > comes with the printer will send you off in the wrong direction 
> for 
> > > B&W.Maybe this will save someone else many hours of frustration.

Re: [Digital BW] 2200 epiphany

2003-03-08 by digikdm

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Richard Sintchak 

PRINT SPACE:
   PROFILE: Adobe RGB(1998)
   INTENT: relative colorimetric
BLACK POINT COMPENSATION--CHECKED 

i HAVE NO IDEA WHAT BLACK POINT COMPENSATION DOES, AND I HAVE NOT 
TESTED THIS SETTING INDEPENDENTLY . I ASKED  AN EPSON TECHNICAL HELP 
PERSON , AND THEY SAID THEY NEVER HEARD OF IT!!!!
FINALLY, I HAVE FOUND THAT IF I SET MY MAGENTA SETTING TO (-5) IN THE 
COLOR MANANGEMENT> COLOR CONTROLS> PHOTOREALISTIC MODE THAT i HAVE A 
VIRTUALLY NEUTRAL B&W PRINT.GOODLUCK




<richard@c...> wrote:
> Friday, March 7, 2003, 4:53:44 AM, digikdm wrote:
> 
> d> 1. WORK  AND PRINT in Adobe1998 color space. DO NOT use 
any "Epson 
> d> print space" settings( such as Epson 2200 matte MK) or you will 
be 
> d> rewarded with a spectrum of casts, usually magenta and /or 
green,  
> d> depending on other settings. Obviously , I did not try every 
color 
> d> space combination , but the above seems to work.
> 
> 
> Thanks for the tip. I will try this. One question: What setting do 
you
> use under Print Space, Profile setting? Same as Source? Printer 
Color
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> Management?
> 
> Best regards,
>  Richard  
> 
> mailto:richard@c...
> 
> L i n k s  t o  m y  g a l l e r i e s:
> http://fujirangefinder.com/document.php?id=246

Re[2]: [Digital BW] 2200 epiphany

2003-03-08 by Richard Sintchak

Friday, March 7, 2003, 9:59:58 PM, digikdm wrote:

d> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Richard Sintchak 

d> PRINT SPACE:
d> \ufffd\ufffd PROFILE: Adobe RGB(1998)
d> \ufffd\ufffd INTENT: relative colorimetric
d> BLACK POINT COMPENSATION--CHECKED 

d> i HAVE NO IDEA WHAT BLACK POINT COMPENSATION DOES, AND I HAVE NOT 
d> TESTED THIS SETTING INDEPENDENTLY . I ASKED\ufffd AN EPSON TECHNICAL HELP 
d> PERSON , AND THEY SAID THEY NEVER HEARD OF IT!!!!
d> FINALLY, I HAVE FOUND THAT IF I SET MY MAGENTA SETTING TO (-5) IN THE 
COLOR MANANGEMENT>> COLOR CONTROLS> PHOTOREALISTIC MODE THAT i HAVE A 
d> VIRTUALLY NEUTRAL B W PRINT.GOODLUCK



Well....thanks for the response and suggestions but I just tried it
with my XP system and it gave me the pinkest B&W results I've ever
had. Back to my 1160 and the quadtones for B&W for me.

Best regards,
 Richard  

mailto:richard@...

L i n k s  t o  m y  g a l l e r i e s:
http://fujirangefinder.com/document.php?id=246

Re[3]: [Digital BW] 2200 epiphany

2003-03-08 by Richard Sintchak

Friday, March 7, 2003, 10:22:39 PM, Richard Sintchak wrote:

RS> Friday, March 7, 2003, 9:59:58 PM, digikdm wrote:

d>> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Richard Sintchak 

d>> PRINT SPACE:
d>> \ufffd\ufffd PROFILE: Adobe RGB(1998)
d>> \ufffd\ufffd INTENT: relative colorimetric
d>> BLACK POINT COMPENSATION--CHECKED 

d>> i HAVE NO IDEA WHAT BLACK POINT COMPENSATION DOES, AND I HAVE NOT 
d>> TESTED THIS SETTING INDEPENDENTLY . I ASKED\ufffd AN EPSON TECHNICAL HELP 
d>> PERSON , AND THEY SAID THEY NEVER HEARD OF IT!!!!
d>> FINALLY, I HAVE FOUND THAT IF I SET MY MAGENTA SETTING TO (-5) IN THE 
COLOR MANANGEMENT>>> COLOR CONTROLS> PHOTOREALISTIC MODE THAT i HAVE A 
d>> VIRTUALLY NEUTRAL B W PRINT.GOODLUCK



RS> Well....thanks for the response and suggestions but I just tried it
RS> with my XP system and it gave me the pinkest B&W results I've ever
RS> had. Back to my 1160 and the quadtones for B&W for me.

RS> Best regards,
RS>  Richard  


Whoops!  I take that back.  I had forgotten to change one setting.
Ok, once I re-checked again and printed it came out much better.
Still a slight bit of magenta in some tonal areas under tungsten light
(it's late now, I'll look at in sunlight tomorrow just to get an idea)
but is perhaps the best so far next to what I get from Lepp's EEM
profile.  The Luminous Landscape Photo-Realistic method gives me quite
a noticeable magenta cast.


Best regards,
 Richard  

mailto:richard@...

L i n k s  t o  m y  g a l l e r i e s:
http://fujirangefinder.com/document.php?id=246

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