Digital BW, The Print

Hello All,

Like many on this forum, I have been asking myself how I can get both 
glossy and matte prints using a CIS/CFS committed to an ultra-chrome 
like (RC compatible pigment) inkset?  The problem as most know is 
that the black ink is either optimized for glossy (RC) papers or for 
matte papers.

My solution:

Use the CIS/CFS only for the color (gray) positions.  In the black 
position use a regular cartridge.  You can fill your own black 
cartridges with the choice of your ink.  So, if you want to switch 
from matte papers to RC papers for a particular job, all you have to 
do is replace the black cartridge, while the color (gray) inks loaded 
on a CIS remain the same.  Vacuum filling just a single black 
cartridge is not much of a hassle at all, and takes no more than 5 
minutes.  Black ink consumption is lower than the color (gray) inks, 
so filling frequency will be fairly low.  So, you have the 
convinience/low cost of a CFS/CIS AND the choice of switching RC and 
matte papers.

This is the approach I am taking with my color 1280 printer loaded 
with an inkset similar to ultrachrome.

Regards.

Shilesh

I think I'll probably try this too once the UC-VM inkset is released. What inkset are you using currently in your 1280?

I've also used this approach in the past...not to use glossy paper but to
test different black inks.  The key if you want to use the approach for
glossy is to make sure that the gray position inks are glossy compatible.
At this point that limits you to the ultrachromes, Lyson small gamut or home
made ink sets.  Paul's new VM 4.3 will be the first commercial pigment quad
solution that will be glossy compatible.   I'm now convinced that the
emerging glossy papers will give the best possible results...so I think this
approach is worth some effort.  Epson Pro Glossy is great, the Ilford
Galerie Smooth Pearl is a great low cost paper and I believe that the
forthcoming Oriental Fiber-Based Gloss will be what many of us have been
waiting for.

Another option to consider is to use a rip to drive your quads.  I'm not up
on all of the options  (particularly for windows, because I'm a mac only
house), but I know that it would be no problem to use a program like
Bauhaus's ink jet control to drive either photo or matte black with no
cartridge change necessary.  You would simply put one black in the black
position and then use one of the extra color positions (these ink set's are
only actually quads) for the other black.  I know Paul tried this with the
epson driver, but couldn't get results he was happy with.  It's easy with a
program like ink jet control because each channel is directly under your
control.  The tricky part is then balancing the various inks...but this is
easier with direct channel control than with photoshop curves that then go
through a driver like Epson's that converts them from RGB to CMYK.  I'm
guessing that Roy Harrington's new quadtoneRIP based on GIMP-PRINT may be
another similar solution for MAC and LINUX users.  The nice thing about Ink
Jet Control is that it has a linearizing function that allows you to just
get close with the curves and then use an algorithm to fine tune it.

It seems that the ideal would be to have a solution like Cone's, but not to
be tied into a particular inks set...and be able to make your own curves.
Then you could use the epson (or canon) driver and get the latest and
greatest dithers.

Robert

On 3/9/03 9:19 AM, "Shilesh Jani" <shilesh.jani@...> wrote:

> Hello All,
> 
> Like many on this forum, I have been asking myself how I can get both
> glossy and matte prints using a CIS/CFS committed to an ultra-chrome
> like (RC compatible pigment) inkset?  The problem as most know is
> that the black ink is either optimized for glossy (RC) papers or for
> matte papers.
> 
> My solution:
> 
> Use the CIS/CFS only for the color (gray) positions.  In the black
> position use a regular cartridge.  You can fill your own black
> cartridges with the choice of your ink.  So, if you want to switch
> from matte papers to RC papers for a particular job, all you have to
> do is replace the black cartridge, while the color (gray) inks loaded
> on a CIS remain the same.  Vacuum filling just a single black
> cartridge is not much of a hassle at all, and takes no more than 5
> minutes.  Black ink consumption is lower than the color (gray) inks,
> so filling frequency will be fairly low.  So, you have the
> convinience/low cost of a CFS/CIS AND the choice of switching RC and
> matte papers.
> 
> This is the approach I am taking with my color 1280 printer loaded
> with an inkset similar to ultrachrome.
> 
> Regards.
> 
> Shilesh
> 
> 
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and other
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My Epson 870 is clogging with the use of MIS black ink catridges.  I have run 
the cleaning utility program numerous times and it is still clogging when I use  
MIS black ink catridges.  I have tried three different cartridges.  However, 
when I use  Epson black ink cartiridges, the printer runs fine.

As a matter of interest, the printer would not recognize another of the 
cartridges and would not, under any circumstances, would not print.  Is this 
commom with MIS inks.  I have emailed MIS about the bad chip, but have yet 
to hear from them.

Do I need to run a purge cartridge through the printer before using  MIS inks?  
Can I avoid the problem by using MIS Eboni black ink or  "Generations" 
cartridges? 

At the present, I am only trying "Black Only" printing.

thanks,
Martin

Charles,

I use MIS FS based inksets for my b/w 1280.  I am not inclined to go 
glossy for b/w.  For my color 1280, I am testing a couple of 
ultrachrome substitutes.  here, I would like the flexibility of both 
RC and matte papers.

Shilesh

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Charles Bandes" 
<byronbulb@y...> wrote:
> I think I'll probably try this too once the UC-VM inkset is 
released. What inkset are you using currently in your 1280?

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Robert Morrison 
<rmorrison@p...> wrote:
 Epson Pro Glossy is great, the Ilford
> Galerie Smooth Pearl is a great low cost paper and I believe that 
the
> forthcoming Oriental Fiber-Based Gloss will be what many of us have 
been
> waiting for.
> 


Hi Robert, I too am waiting on the 4.3 to solve my Ilford and coating 
woes.
However, I was intruiged by the Oriental Fibre-Based Gloss you were 
talking about. What is this? Who does / will supply it? 
Any further information you have would be very interesting

Kind regards

Steve

You can find a reference to the new paper on the Oriental site here --
http://www.orientalphotousa.com/products/inkjet.asp -- however, the 
specs have yet to be posted.  I'd be interested in learning what 
glossy/semi-gloss papers are the most archival -- or if can we even 
use the term in connection with these papers in their current state 
of development.

Chris Hargens 

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "scrber" 
<stephen.bate@m...> wrote:
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Robert 
Morrison 
> <rmorrison@p...> wrote:
>  Epson Pro Glossy is great, the Ilford
> > Galerie Smooth Pearl is a great low cost paper and I believe that 
> the
> > forthcoming Oriental Fiber-Based Gloss will be what many of us 
have 
> been
> > waiting for.
> > 
> 
> 
> Hi Robert, I too am waiting on the 4.3 to solve my Ilford and 
coating 

> woes.
> However, I was intruiged by the Oriental Fibre-Based Gloss you were 
> talking about. What is this? Who does / will supply it? 
> Any further information you have would be very interesting
> 
> Kind regards
> 
> Steve

Yep, this is the link...but unfortunately no info.  I've spoken with
Oriental's US paper rep.  The Fiber-Based paper has the same base as
Oriental's silver fiber-based papers.  I'm not clear on what the surface
will be make out of...but I have been told it will look identical to their
glossy fiber-based silver papers.  It is being designed for pigment
inks...so presumably it will be acid free (acids are only typically added
for dye stability).  I'll certainly keep the list informed as I get more
information.

Robert

PS on the "archival front"...several of Epson's glossy papers are rated
similarly in longevity to the best of the matte papers...for what its worth.

On 3/10/03 7:47 AM, "Chris Hargens" <ldmr@...> wrote:

> You can find a reference to the new paper on the Oriental site here --
> http://www.orientalphotousa.com/products/inkjet.asp -- however, the
> specs have yet to be posted.  I'd be interested in learning what
> glossy/semi-gloss papers are the most archival -- or if can we even
> use the term in connection with these papers in their current state
> of development.
> 
> Chris Hargens 
> 
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "scrber"
> <stephen.bate@m...> wrote:
>> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Robert
> Morrison 
>> <rmorrison@p...> wrote:
>>  Epson Pro Glossy is great, the Ilford
>>> Galerie Smooth Pearl is a great low cost paper and I believe that
>> the
>>> forthcoming Oriental Fiber-Based Gloss will be what many of us
> have 
>> been
>>> waiting for.
>>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Hi Robert, I too am waiting on the 4.3 to solve my Ilford and
> coating 
>> woes.
>> However, I was intruiged by the Oriental Fibre-Based Gloss you were
>> talking about. What is this? Who does / will supply it?
>> Any further information you have would be very interesting
>> 
>> Kind regards
>> 
>> Steve
> 
> 
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and other
> resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
> 
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> 
> If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to
> unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same
> page.
> 
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> - Include your full name with your message.
> - Include the address of your website, if you have one.
> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep
> them short.
> - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject header.
> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or
> &amp;amp;quot;flames.&amp;amp;quot;
> - Complete your Yahoo profile.
> - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the various
> resources on the homepage.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> 
> 
>