Digital BW, The Print

Hi I have been testing the new Ultra Tone inks from MIS.

So far I have had some successes with my 1290, Pauls curves
and Espon Semi Matte paper.

However, in order to get a deeper black I increased the dpi to 
2880 with the Resin Coated paper, but started to get nice blacks 
with  "pizza wheel" affect from the metal rollers.

I have also tried Espon Photo with the new inks and but I have 
got some "solarization" or "bronzing" effect when the print is held 
at an anlge to the light.

Can anyone recommend a  Resin coated "glossy"
paper that goes well with the Ultra Tone ink ? 

Thanks Josh

Josh wrote:

>... testing the new Ultra Tone inks from MIS.

>So far I have had some successes with my 1290, Pauls curves
>and Espon Semi Matte paper.

What sizes does this paper come in?  I had the impression its availability
was limited.

>However, in order to get a deeper black I increased the dpi to
>2880 with the Resin Coated paper,

I'll keep that in mind when I get the 1280 up and running.

> but started to get nice blacks
>with  "pizza wheel" affect from the metal rollers.

My 1160 does this with some glossy paper also.  I've even noticed it
occasionally with the polyurethane-coated matte prints.  Does dye ink on
glossy paper also have this problem?

>I have also tried Espon Photo with the new inks and but I have
>got some "solarization" or "bronzing" effect when the print is held
>at an anlge to the light.

Again, I have no comparison.  I wonder how the UltraChrome and dye inksets
do in this regard.

>Can anyone recommend a  Resin coated "glossy"
>paper that goes well with the Ultra Tone ink ?

Ditto.

I think we are going to have to try a number of RC papers.  I get the
feeling the progress in RC surfaces may be even more dynamic than what we
see in the matte papers.

I'm amazed the existing vm curves work reasonably on any RC papers.
However, they actually don't seem that far off.  I suppose the pigments are
not much absorbed by  the paper, so maybe the profiles are just not going to
differ to the extent they would with a dye-based inkset.

As with any paper (and printer) however, the best prints are going to be
made by curves that are customized to match the precise paper and printer
characteristics.

Paul
http://www.PaulRoark.com

> >Can anyone recommend a  Resin coated "glossy"
> >paper that goes well with the Ultra Tone ink ?
> 
> Ditto.
> 
hey fellas
In the color world I have heard that Pictorico glossy
film has the least amount of bronzing. Also I have
heard that if you reel back the ink density coverage
on a 2200 by 5-10% there is less bronzing. I don't
know if there is a way to do that on other printers,
but its a thought. I am a matte paper guy so I don't
know, just thought I'd throw out what I've heard.
John e

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>>but started to get nice blacks with  "pizza wheel" affect from the metal
rollers.<<

Pizza wheel tracks/marks have been a major problem for me.  They are very
prominent in the areas containing darker shades of gray and black.  These
inks gave me the nice snappy blacks I wanted but the pizza wheel tracks
pretty much make the images un-usable for anything more than proof prints.
I wrote Bob Z. at MIS about this but he has never responded.

I have tried directing a fan's airflow down into the printhead area to try
and dry the inks a bit more before they printed areas moved onto the roller.
The fan moved a large volume of air but still did not help.  I tried this on
both Ilford Ultra Smooth Pearl and Epson Premium Luster.  I never had this
problem with the old VM inks and EAM/EEM using the same printer.

There are lots of sites around the net explaining how to take off the pizza
wheels.  Apparently sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't.  From what I
have read, removing pizza wheels can introduce new issues such as poor paper
handling, paper jamming and reduced printable area.

If anyone works out a solution, please post it!

Doug

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Doug Fisher"
<dougfisher@e...> wrote:

> Pizza wheel tracks/marks have been a major problem for me.  They are
very
> prominent in the areas containing darker shades of gray and black.  
> 
> If anyone works out a solution, please post it!
> 
> Doug

Print at 2880 to slow printer down- gives ink time to dry? You'd need
different curves-Paul once worked up some for 1280 at 2880. I haven't
used this ink OR RC paper so no direct experience.

Not to harp on the 2200 again (and again), but it has a control where
you can insert a variable # of seconds pause after each pass, though I
haven't tried it out. This assumes you use the Epson driver and not
IP5 or another RIP. Also, it allows you to cut down % ink layed
down...IP5 allows this second feature too.

I don't know if you can get a little reverse engineering done to allow
a pause command to be inserted into the other printers driver (1280,
1160). Interesting thought though. Have to live with extended printing
times... you could roughly test theory by hitting the pause button in
Epson dialog every so often.

The other thought I had was if wide paper is used would pressure on
individual wheels be less? I don't think the 1280 is spring loaded but
the 2200 wheels are mounted in a spring loaded sheet metal plate. I
don't think varying the thickness lever has an effect but if you could
stand it, a thinner version of paper if it exists might cause less
pressure from wheels???

Just shots in the dark...
Jim H.

Jim -

>>Print at 2880 to slow printer down- gives ink time to dry? You'd need
different curves-Paul once worked up some for 1280 at 2880. I haven't used
this ink OR RC paper so no direct experience.<<

Thanks for the thought but I don't think that would do it.  When I aimed the
fan in there, it was moving a tremendous amount of air right onto the
freshly printed ink.  Even with all that air moving across the print to dry
it, I still had problems.  I don't think an added pause it going to be
enough.

>> I don't think varying the thickness lever has an effect but if you could
stand it, a thinner version of paper if it exists might cause less pressure
from wheels???<<

I tried moving the lever to the thicker setting on my 1160.  No luck.  From
what I have read on the net, the thickness lever only adjusts the height of
the head itself and doesn't change the distance between the paper and the
rollers.

Thinner paper may work but I haven't researched to find out about what else
is available in a thinner stock.  FWIW, the papers I am using say they are
the same thickness as EAM/EEM.

There are instructions on the net where you insert shims (thin washers are
supposed to work well) under the mounting screws which attach the stamped
piece of metal (containing the rollers and wheels) to the chassis.  This is
supposed to increase the space and decrease the roller pressure.  As with
other methods, sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't according to
various people.  Sometimes it introduces other problems.  I have been
reluctant to start taking apart my machine.

>>Just shots in the dark...<<

Thanks for help.

Doug

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Paul 
Roark" <paul.roark@v...> wrote:
> Josh wrote:
> 
> >... testing the new Ultra Tone inks from MIS.
> 
> >So far I have had some successes with my 1290, Pauls 
curves
> >and Espon Semi Matte paper.
> 
> What sizes does this paper come in?  I had the impression its 
availability
> was limited.

I am in the UK and I have a pack of super A3 which is 13 x 19 
inches. I believe you can get it in A4 aswell.
> 
> >However, in order to get a deeper black I increased the dpi to
> >2880 with the Resin Coated paper,
> 
> I'll keep that in mind when I get the 1280 up and running.
> 
> > but started to get nice blacks
> >with  "pizza wheel" affect from the metal rollers.
> 
> My 1160 does this with some glossy paper also.  I've even 
noticed it
> occasionally with the polyurethane-coated matte prints.  Does 
dye ink on
> glossy paper also have this problem?

No , I guess they dry quicker or get under the surface faster. 
Maybe I should hold a hair dryer over on the print as it is coming 
through !  I will take the 'pizza wheels" out. I don't why Epson puts 
them in. The printers work fine without them.
> 
> >I have also tried Espon Photo with the new inks and but I have
> >got some "solarization" or "bronzing" effect when the print is 
held
> >at an anlge to the light.
> 
> Again, I have no comparison.  I wonder how the UltraChrome 
and dye inksets
> do in this regard.

Sorry, no experience here.
> 
> >Can anyone recommend a  Resin coated "glossy"
> >paper that goes well with the Ultra Tone ink ?
> 
> Ditto.
> 
> I think we are going to have to try a number of RC papers.  I get 
the
> feeling the progress in RC surfaces may be even more 
dynamic than what we
> see in the matte papers.

I saw Fuji have started a range of glossy and matte inkjet 
papers. I thought I might give them a try.

> I'm amazed the existing vm curves work reasonably on any RC 
papers.
> However, they actually don't seem that far off.  I suppose the 
pigments are
> not much absorbed by  the paper, so maybe the profiles are 
just not going to
> differ to the extent they would with a dye-based inkset.
> 
> As with any paper (and printer) however, the best prints are 
going to be
> made by curves that are customized to match the precise 
paper and printer
> characteristics.
Is this  of 'linearization' process  ? Is there any literature on how 
to do this ?


Thanks Josh
PS Your curves MIS VM ink and Epson Archival
Matte have set a very high standard - thanks very much