Digital BW, The Print

Hello,
I'm fairly new to this group but have been bumbling around with B&W digital
printing for a year or more. In reading the posts I get the feeling that the
preponderance of the group uses MIS inks and Roark's curves. By contrast I
had more or less settled on the Piezotone inks. Some months back I tried a
set of MIS VM carts which gave good results but not as good as the Piezotone
warm neutral with black-black. All things equal (same paper, same print,
same export software) The MIS prints were flatter and didn't have as much
snap in the dark tones as the Piezotone.  I should say, however, that I was
using the R9/Sundance Photoshop export software for the printing rather than
printing with curves.

My questions are: Should I try the MIS inks again using a different
workflow? Has anyone else compared the MIS and the Piezotone inks with the
same or different findings than me? What are the advantages/disadvantages of
the two workflows -- ie the R9 photoshop export software versus converting
to rgb and using curves?

Thanks,
Jim Richey

Jim,

>...
>I tried a set of MIS VM carts which gave good results
>but not as good as the Piezotone
>warm neutral with black-black. ...
>The MIS prints were flatter and didn't have as much
>snap in the dark tones as the Piezotone.
>...

The deeper "black-black" will always look better -- for a few months.  But
that is like comparing a dye black to a pigment black.  If you use the Gen 4
Enhanced black with the MIS inks, they too would have more snap.  It's a
trade off between deepness of black and longevity/lightfastness.

Paul
http://www.PaulRoark.com

> The deeper "black-black" will always look better -- for a few
months.  But
> that is like comparing a dye black to a pigment black.  If you use
the Gen 4
> Enhanced black with the MIS inks, they too would have more snap. 
It's a
> trade off between deepness of black and longevity/lightfastness.
> 
> Paul


Jim,

http://www.inkjetmall.com/store/1000-hours.html

Take a look at the fade rates for the different inks. Look at the 
gray components and look at the fade rates of just the black 
components. The PiezoTone grays are built to avoid any 
discernible  fade. The comparison to other brands is via the
"Warm Neutral" version of each brand so as not to compare
warm neutral apples to blue oranges and brown pears. We
understand that bluer inks have better longevity than neutral
warm inks. Our users favor the warm neutrals so we invested
in testing other warm neutral brands.

The black which I think is the most underrated is the Portfolio
Black. Its ending density is greater than Museum Black so you 
can have good starting and ending dMax. Museum Black is 
for those who want an ink which does not shift at all. This may
be overkill for the industry which has become used to moderate
to high levels of brown fading and density fading. Nonetheless,
we offer it.

PiezoTones are definitely very high longevity inks which when 
paired with Museum Black will have no discernible fade. And 
when paired with Portfolio Black will have only a marginal 
amount of black density loss, but to an O.D. which is higher 
than competing blacks.

In regards to the original question about comparing workflows 
to drivers, if  you are on the EPSON 860/1160 the new 
PiezographyBW system will be shipping first. You might consider 
listening to the users remarks after the beta program ends in 
just a few weeks and see if it adds more confusion to your 
decision or a superior choice. The new PiezographyBW system 
does not require any plugin or special printer drivers. It allows 
you to work from grayscale and print directly to the EPSON or
select CANON (s9000 should ship by May) printers from 
Photoshop or any other application which supports grayscale 
images. In Photoshop you can use the profiles to preview the
"color" of the inks, the paper "color", and the black density. That
preview works with the grayscale image and in our workshops
it has proven to be the best workflow because the user has an
aesthetic interface to the editing of their black & white images.
The prints are "truer" to their intentions when they were
Photoshop'ing their images. They also prefer the output 
linearization and smoothness.

Hope this helps.

Jon Cone
http://www.piezography.com

Hi Jim-

If you like using the piezo software, you might want to consider the 
MIS FS inks...very similar to the original piezo inks...warm, no 
fade, work great with both the piezo and sundance profiles.

Remember the VM are using the Epson driver. 

The piezo tones are beautiful and let you use the piezo software. If 
you like that, why not stay with it?

tom o'connell


--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Jim Richey" 
<j.richey@s...> wrote:
> Hello,
> I'm fairly new to this group but have been bumbling around with B&W 
digital
> printing for a year or more. In reading the posts I get the feeling 
that the
> preponderance of the group uses MIS inks and Roark's curves. By 
contrast I
> had more or less settled on the Piezotone inks. Some months back I 
tried a
> set of MIS VM carts which gave good results but not as good as the 
Piezotone
> warm neutral with black-black. All things equal (same paper, same 
print,
> same export software) The MIS prints were flatter and didn't have 
as much
> snap in the dark tones as the Piezotone.  I should say, however, 
that I was
> using the R9/Sundance Photoshop export software for the printing 
rather than
> printing with curves.
> 
> My questions are: Should I try the MIS inks again using a different
> workflow? Has anyone else compared the MIS and the Piezotone inks 
with the
> same or different findings than me? What are the 
advantages/disadvantages of
> the two workflows -- ie the R9 photoshop export software versus 
converting

> to rgb and using curves?
> 
> Thanks,
> Jim Richey