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Re: [Digital BW] SilverFast Ai 6 question

Re: [Digital BW] SilverFast Ai 6 question

2003-05-12 by Martin Wesley

----- Original Message ----- 
Show quoted textHide quoted text
From: "davidspielman2003" <david@...>
To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, May 12, 2003 2:29 PM
Subject: [Digital BW] SilverFast Ai 6 question


> Hello All,
>
> I thought someone on this list may know the answer to this question...
>
> I have SilverFast Ai 6 that came bundled with my Epson 3200 Pro
> scanner, and it works fine with it. I also have a Nikon CoolScan LS-
> 2000 scanner that I would also like to use with SF Ai 6, but I don't
> seem to be smart enough to get the SF Ai 6 software to see the Nikon
> scanner. Do I have to do something special to get the program to see
> both scanners?
>
David,

Versions of SilverFast are scanner specific. In order to use it with your
CoolScan you will have to purchase a version for that scanner. The cost is
$299 according to their website:

http://www.silverfast.com/pricing/193/en.html

The pricing varies with the model of scanner.

Martin Wesley

RE: [Digital BW] SilverFast Ai 6 question

2003-05-12 by David R. Spielman

Thanks for your reply Martin, it's not the answer I was hoping for, but
that's life!
I really like this program with my Epson 3200 and was hoping to use it with
my Nikon also. Sa La Vi

Best Regards,

David R. Spielman

email: david@...
webpage: http://david.spielman.com/index.html
short alphanumeric page: http://davidspielman@...)
Show quoted textHide quoted text
  -----Original Message-----
  From: Martin Wesley [mailto:mwesley250@...]
  Sent: Monday, May 12, 2003 2:53 PM
  To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
  Subject: Re: [Digital BW] SilverFast Ai 6 question


  ----- Original Message -----
  From: "davidspielman2003" <david@...>
  To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
  Sent: Monday, May 12, 2003 2:29 PM
  Subject: [Digital BW] SilverFast Ai 6 question


  > Hello All,
  >
  > I thought someone on this list may know the answer to this question...
  >
  > I have SilverFast Ai 6 that came bundled with my Epson 3200 Pro
  > scanner, and it works fine with it. I also have a Nikon CoolScan LS-
  > 2000 scanner that I would also like to use with SF Ai 6, but I don't
  > seem to be smart enough to get the SF Ai 6 software to see the Nikon
  > scanner. Do I have to do something special to get the program to see
  > both scanners?
  >
  David,

  Versions of SilverFast are scanner specific. In order to use it with your
  CoolScan you will have to purchase a version for that scanner. The cost is
  $299 according to their website:

  http://www.silverfast.com/pricing/193/en.html

  The pricing varies with the model of scanner.

  Martin Wesley



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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

French

2003-05-12 by Stephen Petegorsky

Not to be picky, but it's "C'est la vie" (that's life)

Re: [Digital BW] SilverFast Ai 6 question

2003-05-13 by Julian Thomas

Loris, I know we've butted heads (in the nicest possible way <g>) over Si
before, but don't you find that for BW the best way to scan is as a 48bit
RGB 'raw' file and then do all the neg inversion and stuff manually in PS
using chanel mixer? I use the canned profiles for colour but for BW 'image'
capture (as it is called in Vuescan) gives you the most accurate data IMO.

Julian
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Loris Medici" <lorism@...>
To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, May 13, 2003 3:01 PM
Subject: RE: [Digital BW] SilverFast Ai 6 question


> That was my point exactly - for instance, I use them "exclusively". I
> was calling attention to the fact that Vuescan DOES NOT INCLUDE profiles
> for films like HP5+, FP4+ and Delta series which all are used ABUNDANTLY
> by B&W photographers. This is in contrary to Duncan's "...a pretty
> complete database of film types and emulsions..." statement about
> Vuescan.
>
> Regards,
> Loris.
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Stephen Kobrin [mailto:skobrin@...]
> > Sent: Tuesday, May 13, 2003 3:43 PM
> > To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: Re: [Digital BW] SilverFast Ai 6 question
> >
> > Do you feel that there is a reason HP5+ and FP4+ are "seldomly used
> > in the B&W realm?"  I use both regularly.  What don't I know??
> > (Sarcasm mode definately off!)
>
>
>
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and
other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
>
> If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to
unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same
page.
>
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> - Include your full name with your message.
> - Include the address of your website, if you have one.
> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep
them short.
> - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject header.
> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or
&amp;amp;quot;flames.&amp;amp;quot;
> - Complete your Yahoo profile.
> - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the various
resources on the homepage.
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>

RE: [Digital BW] SilverFast Ai 6 question

2003-05-13 by Loris Medici

Hello Julian,

I don' undestand why should I scan a grayscale image in RGB mode? I do
it in 16bit mode always and never use channel mixer. This is not about
the most accurate data but inconvenience - I save time and RAM by using
the canned profiles instead channel mixer (an additive step) which is
"linear" and grayscale mode. My point was more about misinformation.

Regards,
Loris.
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Julian Thomas [mailto:julianthomas@...] 
> Sent: Tuesday, May 13, 2003 5:02 PM
> To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [Digital BW] SilverFast Ai 6 question
> 
> 
> Loris, I know we've butted heads (in the nicest possible way 
> <g>) over Si before, but don't you find that for BW the best 
> way to scan is as a 48bit RGB 'raw' file and then do all the 
> neg inversion and stuff manually in PS using chanel mixer? I 
> use the canned profiles for colour but for BW 'image' capture 
> (as it is called in Vuescan) gives you the most accurate data IMO.
> 
> Julian

Re: [Digital BW] SilverFast Ai 6 question

2003-05-13 by Julian Thomas

I feel Austin about to pounce! All scanners scan in RGB mode and convert and
invert in the scanner s'ware. CCD scanners tend to have some channels of the
RGB more accurate than others , red blooms for instance and on some of my
scans has more noise in the shadows, by doing the conversion yourself you
can fine tune the conversion. You also have 'all the data' if you scan in
raw even if you scan as a 16bit greyscale and let the s'ware do the RGB
conversion. i agree with you about the RAM issue though. But before we know
where we are folk will be using AF cameras and inbuilt exposure meters if
you let the software do all the work...

Julian
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Loris Medici" <lorism@...>
To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, May 13, 2003 4:38 PM
Subject: RE: [Digital BW] SilverFast Ai 6 question


> Hello Julian,
>
> I don' undestand why should I scan a grayscale image in RGB mode? I do
> it in 16bit mode always and never use channel mixer. This is not about
> the most accurate data but inconvenience - I save time and RAM by using
> the canned profiles instead channel mixer (an additive step) which is
> "linear" and grayscale mode. My point was more about misinformation.
>
> Regards,
> Loris.
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Julian Thomas [mailto:julianthomas@...]
> > Sent: Tuesday, May 13, 2003 5:02 PM
> > To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: Re: [Digital BW] SilverFast Ai 6 question
> >
> >
> > Loris, I know we've butted heads (in the nicest possible way
> > <g>) over Si before, but don't you find that for BW the best
> > way to scan is as a 48bit RGB 'raw' file and then do all the
> > neg inversion and stuff manually in PS using chanel mixer? I
> > use the canned profiles for colour but for BW 'image' capture
> > (as it is called in Vuescan) gives you the most accurate data IMO.
> >
> > Julian
>
>
>
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and
other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
>
> If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to
unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same
page.
>
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> - Include your full name with your message.
> - Include the address of your website, if you have one.
> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep
them short.
> - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject header.
> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or
&amp;amp;quot;flames.&amp;amp;quot;
> - Complete your Yahoo profile.
> - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the various
resources on the homepage.
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>

Re: [Digital BW] SilverFast Ai 6 question

2003-05-13 by Loris Medici

Why do it yourself while there are more knowledgeable people (maybe you're a scanning expert but I'm not for sure) than me doing all the necessary tests (which I can't do due to the lack of a densitometer) in correct methodology to provide film profiles? I care more for "usable data" than a raw "all data" and I wouldn't go far as claiming "I know better than scanner hardware and/or software engineers" - such as people at Silverfast or Ed Hamrick. Aren't the film profiles provided in Silverfast and alike softwares designed by "professionals" for doing RGB to grayscale convertion "in the right way"? Please note my "linear" comment about channel mixer. If you examine profiles in Silverfast in advanced mode you'll notice that they are "non-linear". This fact makes me think that these profiles are more useful/successful than the linear convertion I would apply (loosely) by the means of channel mixer. Anyway, I feel more comfortable and productive in scanning thanks to these profiles, dot. YMMV.

Regards,
Loris.

---- Orijinal Mesaj #1 ----
Kimden: julianthomas@...
Kime: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Bilgi: 
Konu: Re: [Digital BW] SilverFast Ai 6 question
Tarih: 5/13/2003 6:54:47 PM
I feel Austin about to pounce! All scanners scan in RGB mode and convert and
invert in the scanner s'ware. CCD scanners tend to have some channels of the
RGB more accurate than others , red blooms for instance and on some of my
scans has more noise in the shadows, by doing the conversion yourself you
can fine tune the conversion. You also have 'all the data' if you scan in
raw even if you scan as a 16bit greyscale and let the s'ware do the RGB
conversion. i agree with you about the RAM issue though. But before we know
where we are folk will be using AF cameras and inbuilt exposure meters if
you let the software do all the work...

Julian
Show quoted textHide quoted text
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Loris Medici" <lorism@...>
To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, May 13, 2003 4:38 PM
Subject: RE: [Digital BW] SilverFast Ai 6 question


> Hello Julian,
>
> I don' undestand why should I scan a grayscale image in RGB mode? I do
> it in 16bit mode always and never use channel mixer. This is not about
> the most accurate data but inconvenience - I save time and RAM by using
> the canned profiles instead channel mixer (an additive step) which is
> "linear" and grayscale mode. My point was more about misinformation.
>
> Regards,
> Loris.



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [Digital BW] SilverFast Ai 6 question

2003-05-13 by Loris Medici

Why do it yourself while there are more knowledgeable people (maybe 
you're a scanning expert but I'm not for sure) than me doing all the 
necessary tests (which I can't do due to the lack of a densitometer) 
in correct methodology to provide film profiles? I care more 
for "usable data" than a raw "all data" and I wouldn't go far as 
claiming "I know better than scanner hardware and/or software 
engineers" - such as people at Silverfast or Ed Hamrick. Aren't the 
film profiles provided in Silverfast and alike softwares designed 
by "professionals" for doing RGB to grayscale convertion "in the 
right way"? Please note my "linear" comment about channel mixer. If 
you examine profiles in Silverfast in advanced mode you'll notice 
that they are "non-linear". This fact makes me think that these 
profiles are more useful/successful than the linear convertion I 
would apply by the means of channel mixer. Anyway, I feel more 
comfortable and productive in scanning thanks to these profiles, dot. 
YMMV.

Regards,
Loris.

---- Orijinal Mesaj #1 ----
Kimden: julianthomas@...
Kime: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Bilgi: 
Konu: Re: [Digital BW] SilverFast Ai 6 question
Tarih: 5/13/2003 6:54:47 PM
I feel Austin about to pounce! All scanners scan in RGB mode and 
convert and
invert in the scanner s'ware. CCD scanners tend to have some channels 
of the
RGB more accurate than others , red blooms for instance and on some 
of my
scans has more noise in the shadows, by doing the conversion yourself 
you
can fine tune the conversion. You also have 'all the data' if you 
scan in
raw even if you scan as a 16bit greyscale and let the s'ware do the 
RGB
conversion. i agree with you about the RAM issue though. But before 
we know
where we are folk will be using AF cameras and inbuilt exposure 
meters if
you let the software do all the work...

Julian
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Loris Medici" <lorism@...>
To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, May 13, 2003 4:38 PM
Subject: RE: [Digital BW] SilverFast Ai 6 question


> Hello Julian,
>
> I don' undestand why should I scan a grayscale image in RGB mode? I 
do
> it in 16bit mode always and never use channel mixer. This is not 
about
> the most accurate data but inconvenience - I save time and RAM by 
using
> the canned profiles instead channel mixer (an additive step) which 
is
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> "linear" and grayscale mode. My point was more about misinformation.
>
> Regards,
> Loris.

Re: [Digital BW] SilverFast Ai 6 question

2003-05-14 by Julian Thomas

Weeeeeell - possibly <g> One of the reasons that i scan raw is that i
started doing this before Vuescan or Silverfast had usable profiles. However
I  still think it is a valid approach as there is no such thing as a
standard neg. For example - I develop everything in DiXactol, a staining
developer. So my Delta neg is going to look a whole lot different to yours.
I used to develop TriX in Xtol with minimal agitation and my negs were
different to a colleague's who used a different dilution and agitation
method. Scanners also vary. My first ss4000 had to go back to the shop and
was replaced but an RGB scan of a blank neg showed a totally different RGB
histo to what the replacement produced. so a canned profile is even worse
IMO than a canned printer profile. IT8 calibration is only valid if you scan
the same film-type as the target i.e. tranny, so some kind of visual and
manual control is necessary. In the last Vuescan release Ed acknowledged
that negs are harder to scan than tranny and has added new controls to deal
with the extended dynamic range as auto can be less satisfactory. However, i
mention all this only for discussion - a wise man says from time to time,
'make art' and whatever works for each individual is valid IMO. I know
someone who scans colour negs in RAW and strips the orange mask and inverts
by hand - crazy or what?

JUlian
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Loris Medici" <lorism@...>
To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, May 13, 2003 11:36 PM
Subject: Re: [Digital BW] SilverFast Ai 6 question


> Why do it yourself while there are more knowledgeable people (maybe you're
a scanning expert but I'm not for sure) than me doing all the necessary
tests (which I can't do due to the lack of a densitometer) in correct
methodology to provide film profiles? I care more for "usable data" than a
raw "all data" and I wouldn't go far as claiming "I know better than scanner
hardware and/or software engineers" - such as people at Silverfast or Ed
Hamrick. Aren't the film profiles provided in Silverfast and alike softwares
designed by "professionals" for doing RGB to grayscale convertion "in the
right way"? Please note my "linear" comment about channel mixer. If you
examine profiles in Silverfast in advanced mode you'll notice that they are
"non-linear". This fact makes me think that these profiles are more
useful/successful than the linear convertion I would apply (loosely) by the
means of channel mixer. Anyway, I feel more comfortable and productive in
scanning thanks to these profiles, dot. YMMV.
>
> Regards,
> Loris.
>
> ---- Orijinal Mesaj #1 ----
> Kimden: julianthomas@...
> Kime: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> Bilgi:
> Konu: Re: [Digital BW] SilverFast Ai 6 question
> Tarih: 5/13/2003 6:54:47 PM
> I feel Austin about to pounce! All scanners scan in RGB mode and convert
and
> invert in the scanner s'ware. CCD scanners tend to have some channels of
the
> RGB more accurate than others , red blooms for instance and on some of my
> scans has more noise in the shadows, by doing the conversion yourself you
> can fine tune the conversion. You also have 'all the data' if you scan in
> raw even if you scan as a 16bit greyscale and let the s'ware do the RGB
> conversion. i agree with you about the RAM issue though. But before we
know
> where we are folk will be using AF cameras and inbuilt exposure meters if
> you let the software do all the work...
>
> Julian
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Loris Medici" <lorism@...>
> To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, May 13, 2003 4:38 PM
> Subject: RE: [Digital BW] SilverFast Ai 6 question
>
>
> > Hello Julian,
> >
> > I don' undestand why should I scan a grayscale image in RGB mode? I do
> > it in 16bit mode always and never use channel mixer. This is not about
> > the most accurate data but inconvenience - I save time and RAM by using
> > the canned profiles instead channel mixer (an additive step) which is
> > "linear" and grayscale mode. My point was more about misinformation.
> >
> > Regards,
> > Loris.
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and
other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
>
> If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to
unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same
page.
>
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> - Include your full name with your message.
> - Include the address of your website, if you have one.
> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep
them short.
> - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject header.
> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or
&amp;amp;quot;flames.&amp;amp;quot;
> - Complete your Yahoo profile.
> - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the various
resources on the homepage.
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>

Re: [Digital BW] SilverFast Ai 6 question

2003-05-16 by A. Huntley

David,

I agree totally with Duncan...I, too, have been a Silverfast user since
version 5.0 for my Epson Expression 1680. However, somewhere along the way I
discovered Vuescan and, now, I cannot remember when I last used Ai 6 for
scanning B&W film. I do still use Silverfast for color, but for B&W Vuescan
is definitely the way to go (IMHO!) Consider the price difference, too!
Also, Ed is very responsive and helpful with his products and continually
improves them. For example, I always thought that Vuescan was somewhat
sluggish in running my scanner (both preview and final scan), however, a
recent download of the latest version now provides scan speeds equal to
Silverfast! And, it didn't cost me a dime to upgrade...psst...cautionary
note here: unlike Silverfast!

If you decide to stay with Silverfast and, yes, Silverfast is scanner
specific (i.e., you need distinct versions for each scanner) if you contact
them directly they will extend a discount (or used to) if you're already a
registered user.

Best regards,
Alan Huntley

----- Original Message -----
Show quoted textHide quoted text
From: "Duncan Staples" <gdstaples@...>
To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, May 12, 2003 3:42 PM
Subject: Re: [Digital BW] SilverFast Ai 6 question


> I have been using Silverfast since version 5.5 (also 6) and I finally
> gave it up for Vuescan.  I personally think that Vuescan does a much
> better job at batch scanning, auto-exposures and has a pretty
> complete database of film types and emulsions.  I also think the user
> interface is much more intuitive.
>
> Regards,
> Duncan
>
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Shire,Stanley"
> <sshire@c...> wrote:
> > Silverfast is specific to a particular scanner (make and, in some
> cases,
> > model). If you bought Silverfast (or, as in your case, if the
> software
> > was bundled)for a specific scanner it will not work with any other
> > scanner.
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: davidspielman2003 [mailto:david@s...]
> > Sent: Monday, May 12, 2003 5:30 PM
> > To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: [Digital BW] SilverFast Ai 6 question
> >
> > Hello All,
> >
> > I thought someone on this list may know the answer to this
> question...
> >
> > I have SilverFast Ai 6 that came bundled with my Epson 3200 Pro
> > scanner, and it works fine with it. I also have a Nikon CoolScan LS-
> > 2000 scanner that I would also like to use with SF Ai 6, but I
> don't
> > seem to be smart enough to get the SF Ai 6 software to see the
> Nikon
> > scanner. Do I have to do something special to get the program to
> see
> > both scanners?
> >
> > Thanks.
> >
> > D.Spielman

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