Digital BW, The Print

sanfo2003 writes:

> The prices on these digital backs are just
> completely out of line.

It is extraodinarily expensive to produce large CCD and CMOS chips.  That's
one of the drawbacks of digital cameras right now.  The cost increases
exponentially (almost) with the size of the chip, because it is very
difficult to prevent defects on large chips, and the reject rate is high.

> For example, the Canon 1Ds 11 megapix camera
> with a 35mm sized sensor costs an outrageous
> $7500 (street price) but that includes a top-of-
> the-line professional quality camera body.

You can buy a complete MF outfit and scanner for that price, and take
pictures with nearly ten times as many pixels as the Canon provides.

> The Leaf 11 megapixal back ALONE with a 35mm sized
> sensor is $12000.

Make that a complete Hasselblad MF outfit and a Imacon scanner.  Maybe even
an extra lens or two.

> This is irrational.

Although costs are high, as I've described, there may still be some gouging,
as many photographers at this point in time may be sufficiently hypnotized
and sufficiently na\ufffdve about digital to pay anything for a digital camera or
back.

> I can't even imagine what they'll attempt
> to charge for this new back. This back should
> sell for around $5000, we'll see what
> they charge.

Except in cases where time is the overriding concern, I don't understand
what the attraction of digital backs is in the first place.

> Although costs are high, as I've described, there may still be some gouging,
> as many photographers at this point in time may be sufficiently hypnotized
> and sufficiently naïve about digital to pay anything for a digital camera or
> back.
> 
>> I can't even imagine what they'll attempt
>> to charge for this new back. This back should
>> sell for around $5000, we'll see what
>> they charge.
> 
> Except in cases where time is the overriding concern, I don't understand
> what the attraction of digital backs is in the first place.

Time is a very important concern for me. Digital imaging cuts down on film
processing and scanning time - for me that really adds up. Whether you
shoot a lot of film or not, the more digital frames exposed the lower the
overall costs. Over time its possible to reduce the cost of ownership on a
digital camera or back to a level below film cameras (considering film,
processing and scanning costs.)  Considering the lower cost of ownership,
faster turn around, and tax depreciation (at least in the US for
professionals and I assume the market is professional) -- there is
relatively little pressure on the companies to lower the price. At that
level a lower price may not translate into significantly increased sales.

Wendel

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Anthony Atkielski" 
<anthony@a...> wrote:
> sanfo2003 writes:
> Except in cases where time is the overriding concern, I don't understand
> what the attraction of digital backs is in the first place.

I happily shoot film--MF and LF--but will welcome the day I don't have to carry 70+ 
rolls and sheets on overseas shoots. Also, the camera back technology is aiming 
towards capturing a wider tonal range (ie exposure latitude) than even b/w neg film is 
capable of. 

But certainly the digital capture industry is in its infancy--digital printing seems like a 
mature stable technology by comparison. And today's cutting edge will seem 
laughably obsolete in the near future. Time was 4MP digital cameras were $15k+.

When I can lock a 40MP 6x9-sized back on my Wista VX, review histogram, make spot 
readings, and store 50GB worth of files on something the size of an iPod, connected 
by a thin cable...sorry I'm drooling now. Oh, and price it below, say $4k 

So to the extent the new Valeo moves the industry towards my lofty goal, bring it on.

Amadou Diallo

Amadou,

> But certainly the digital capture industry is in its
> infancy--digital printing seems like a
> mature stable technology by comparison.

Er, huh?  Digital capture has been around for near 40 years...where digital
printing has been around substantially less than that, depending on which
venue you mean.  With respect to consumer/prosumer digital image capture,
and consumer/prosumer digital printing, they really are about the same.

Austin