Digital BW, The Print

Hi,
I am wondering if the EyeOne spectrophotometer (bundled with the Eye 
One Photo) would be suitable for using with IJC in developing 
profiles?,,,or do I need some non-proprietary 
spectrophotometer?,,,or for that matter, does anyone have any 
specific recommendations of denistometers to use in conjunction with 
IJC

Thanks
Kevin

I've been using the eye-one recently for this purpose.  Only problem is 
you have to first read the patches in i1Share and then transfer the 
data to a spreadsheet to calculate the density values and then input 
the density values to IJC.  Would certainly be nice if IJC supported 
the eye-one for direct input of density  data for linearization, 
preferably in strip reading mode, rather than patch by patch.  
StudioPrint does offer this capabilty, but only for the PC.

Carl

On Tuesday, July 8, 2003, at 10:21  AM, klog52756 wrote:

> Hi,
> I am wondering if the EyeOne spectrophotometer (bundled with the Eye
> One Photo) would be suitable for using with IJC in developing
> profiles?,,,or do I need some non-proprietary
> spectrophotometer?,,,or for that matter, does anyone have any
> specific recommendations of denistometers to use in conjunction with
> IJC
>
> Thanks
> Kevin

Hi Carl,
Thanks for getting back.
Too bad the i1 spectrophotometer does not work well with IJC.
I am trying to find the best all-around solution to my BW & Archival 
Color profiling needs.
So far I am leaning towards IJC for my BW (VM Ultratone) and i1 for 
my archival color profiling.
Wish they would easily work together.
The spreadsheet that you mention, 1. Sounds complex, & 2. I assume 
you did that yourself, & 3. IF I wanted to go that route, how would 
I go about doing it?
BTW, I looked into StudioPrint as an option, but it does not support 
my Epson 1280s

Thanks again,
Kevin

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Carl Schofield 
<scho@m...> wrote:
> I've been using the eye-one recently for this purpose.  Only 
problem is 
> you have to first read the patches in i1Share and then transfer 
the 
> data to a spreadsheet to calculate the density values and then 
input 
> the density values to IJC.  Would certainly be nice if IJC 
supported 
> the eye-one for direct input of density  data for linearization, 
> preferably in strip reading mode, rather than patch by patch.  
> StudioPrint does offer this capabilty, but only for the PC.
> 
> Carl
> On Tuesday, July 8, 2003, at 10:21  AM, klog52756 wrote:
> 
> > Hi,
> > I am wondering if the EyeOne spectrophotometer (bundled with the 
Eye
> > One Photo) would be suitable for using with IJC in developing
> > profiles?,,,or do I need some non-proprietary
> > spectrophotometer?,,,or for that matter, does anyone have any
> > specific recommendations of denistometers to use in conjunction 
with

> > IJC
> >
> > Thanks
> > Kevin

Kevin

There are really no spectrophotometers or densitometers that work  
directly with IJC.  You have to manually enter 26 density measurements  
into IJC to linearize a profile.  StudioPrint is the only profiling  
application I know of that interfaces directly with the eye-one and  
other instruments.  You can make your own spreadsheet to transform the  
L readings you get from the eye-one in i1Share quite easily by just  
using the following equations to calculate density:
If L > 8
Y = ((L + 16)/116)^3
Else
Y = (L * 27)/24389

Density = -log10(Y)

Alternatively, Bruce Lindbloom has a spreadsheet that will make these  
and other calculations for you from the spectral data:
http://www.brucelindbloom.com/downloads/SpectralCalculator10nm.xls.zip

GretagMacbeth also has an application that will work with the eye-one  
on a PC (I use a Mac so haven't used it) and it will automatically  
transfer the spectral data to a spreadsheet (like the one above).  It  
is called KeyWizard and is available here:
http://www.gretagmacbeth.com/Source/ 
Gm.asp?part=Products&page=ProductsDisplay&id=6875&code=d&typ=product

Carl
On Wednesday, July 9, 2003, at 01:19  AM, klog52756 wrote:

> Hi Carl,
> Thanks for getting back.
> Too bad the i1 spectrophotometer does not work well with IJC.
> I am trying to find the best all-around solution to my BW & Archival
> Color profiling needs.
> So far I am leaning towards IJC for my BW (VM Ultratone) and i1 for
> my archival color profiling.
> Wish they would easily work together.
> The spreadsheet that you mention, 1. Sounds complex, & 2. I assume
> you did that yourself, & 3. IF I wanted to go that route, how would
> I go about doing it?
> BTW, I looked into StudioPrint as an option, but it does not support
> my Epson 1280s
>
> Thanks again,
> Kevin


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Carl,
Thanks for the info & the links.
Doesn't sound insurmountable, transposing the data.  I'll have to 
think it over.
I'm attracted to the i1, and it seems to be getting very good 
reviews for profiling color.

Cheers
Kevin

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Carl Schofield 
<scho@m...> wrote:
> Kevin
> 
> There are really no spectrophotometers or densitometers that work  
> directly with IJC.  You have to manually enter 26 density 
measurements  
> into IJC to linearize a profile.  StudioPrint is the only 
profiling  
> application I know of that interfaces directly with the eye-one 
and  
> other instruments.  You can make your own spreadsheet to transform 
the  
> L readings you get from the eye-one in i1Share quite easily by 
just  
> using the following equations to calculate density:
> If L > 8
> Y = ((L + 16)/116)^3
> Else
> Y = (L * 27)/24389
> 
> Density = -log10(Y)
> 
> Alternatively, Bruce Lindbloom has a spreadsheet that will make 
these  
> and other calculations for you from the spectral data:
> 
http://www.brucelindbloom.com/downloads/SpectralCalculator10nm.xls.zi
p
> 
> GretagMacbeth also has an application that will work with the eye-
one  
> on a PC (I use a Mac so haven't used it) and it will 
automatically  
> transfer the spectral data to a spreadsheet (like the one above).  
It  
> is called KeyWizard and is available here:
> http://www.gretagmacbeth.com/Source/ 
> Gm.asp?
part=Products&page=ProductsDisplay&id=6875&code=d&typ=product
> 
> Carl
> On Wednesday, July 9, 2003, at 01:19  AM, klog52756 wrote:
> 
> > Hi Carl,
> > Thanks for getting back.
> > Too bad the i1 spectrophotometer does not work well with IJC.
> > I am trying to find the best all-around solution to my BW & 
Archival
> > Color profiling needs.
> > So far I am leaning towards IJC for my BW (VM Ultratone) and i1 
for
> > my archival color profiling.
> > Wish they would easily work together.
> > The spreadsheet that you mention, 1. Sounds complex, & 2. I 
assume
> > you did that yourself, & 3. IF I wanted to go that route, how 
would
> > I go about doing it?
> > BTW, I looked into StudioPrint as an option, but it does not 
support

> > my Epson 1280s
> >
> > Thanks again,
> > Kevin
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Carl Schofield
<scho@m...> wrote:
snip...
> Alternatively, Bruce Lindbloom has a spreadsheet that will make these  
> and other calculations for you from the spectral data:
> http://www.brucelindbloom.com/downloads/SpectralCalculator10nm.xls.zip

Unfortunately, you need the actual spectral data for Bruce's
spreadsheet to get to density. LAB values won't do it. I've as of yet
been unable to get any i1 software to export the spectral data, unless
something purchased (additionally) will do it.
i1 informs me density will eventually be built into i1Share, but it's
not high on the developement list.
I could be dumb as a post, but so far the i1 is becoming a paper
weight for density use.
Any info would be apreciated.
Tyler

Tyler,

You can view the spectral data in i1Share via the property inspector, 
but as you noted there is no way to export the data, other than 
manually writing the numbers down and then entering them in the 
Lindbloom spreadsheet.  KeyWizard supposedly will import spectral data 
directly into a spreadsheet from the Eye-One, but only on a PC.  I've 
been calculating visual density from the L* values reported by i1Share 
using the equations (from Bruce Lindbloom)  I posted and they work good 
enough for my purposes.  I also contacted GM about getting density from 
the Eye-One and this was their response:

> Unfortunately at this time it is not possible to measure density with 
> the
> Eye-One (i1) instrument unless you have a third-party software 
> application
> that supports density measurement (such as a large-format RIP program 
> like
> BestColor or Onyx PosterShop).
>
> GretagMacbeth KeyWizard is no longer being developed. This application 
> is
> still sold, but must be run on a Mac with OS 9.1 (it is not compatible 
> with
> 9.2.2) or on a PC with Windows 2000.
>
> You can get spectral values from the i1 by using the free, unsupported
> utility, i1 Share 1.3 (available for download from www.i1color.com). 
> From
> the spectral values or LAB values you can calculate density. 
> GretagMacbeth
> has received a number of requests to include a density function in i1 
> Share
> and is considering this for a future software release.

I told then to add my vote for including density in an updated i1Share, 
but I'm not holding my breath.

Carl

On Friday, July 11, 2003, at 07:02  PM, Tyler Boley wrote:

> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Carl Schofield
> <scho@m...> wrote:
> snip...
>> Alternatively, Bruce Lindbloom has a spreadsheet that will make these
>> and other calculations for you from the spectral data:
>> http://www.brucelindbloom.com/downloads/SpectralCalculator10nm.xls.zip
>
> Unfortunately, you need the actual spectral data for Bruce's
> spreadsheet to get to density. LAB values won't do it. I've as of yet
> been unable to get any i1 software to export the spectral data, unless
> something purchased (additionally) will do it.
> i1 informs me density will eventually be built into i1Share, but it's
> not high on the developement list.
> I could be dumb as a post, but so far the i1 is becoming a paper
> weight for density use.
> Any info would be apreciated.
> Tyler

Carl, I just figured it out. In measure tool, hit device/port. There
will be a check box for spectral. It will all be there when you export
as text, unsure of what happens when you as one of their silly i1share
formats. I have yet to find any decent documentation that tells me
what neato things "share" will do for me.
Try the above, you should be able to copy and paste it all into
Bruce's spreadsheet.
Just might solve it all, but I don't have time to play with it right
now. If you are on the colorsync list you will find other informed
responses to my questions about this there.
I have other "issues" with this package, do you mind sharing a little
off list mail?
Tyler

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Carl Schofield
<scho@m...> wrote:
> Tyler,
> 
> You can view the spectral data in i1Share via the property inspector, 
> but as you noted there is no way to export the data, other than 
> manually writing the numbers down and then entering them in the 
> Lindbloom spreadsheet.  KeyWizard supposedly will import spectral data 
> directly into a spreadsheet from the Eye-One, but only on a PC.  I've 
> been calculating visual density from the L* values reported by i1Share 
> using the equations (from Bruce Lindbloom)  I posted and they work good 
> enough for my purposes.  I also contacted GM about getting density from 
> the Eye-One and this was their response:
> 
> > Unfortunately at this time it is not possible to measure density with 
> > the
> > Eye-One (i1) instrument unless you have a third-party software 
> > application
> > that supports density measurement (such as a large-format RIP program 
> > like
> > BestColor or Onyx PosterShop).
> >
> > GretagMacbeth KeyWizard is no longer being developed. This
application 
> > is
> > still sold, but must be run on a Mac with OS 9.1 (it is not
compatible 
> > with
> > 9.2.2) or on a PC with Windows 2000.
> >
> > You can get spectral values from the i1 by using the free, unsupported
> > utility, i1 Share 1.3 (available for download from www.i1color.com). 
> > From
> > the spectral values or LAB values you can calculate density. 
> > GretagMacbeth
> > has received a number of requests to include a density function in i1 
> > Share
> > and is considering this for a future software release.
> 
> I told then to add my vote for including density in an updated i1Share, 
> but I'm not holding my breath.
> 
> Carl
> On Friday, July 11, 2003, at 07:02  PM, Tyler Boley wrote:
> 
> > --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Carl Schofield
> > <scho@m...> wrote:
> > snip...
> >> Alternatively, Bruce Lindbloom has a spreadsheet that will make these
> >> and other calculations for you from the spectral data:
> >>
http://www.brucelindbloom.com/downloads/SpectralCalculator10nm.xls.zip

> >
> > Unfortunately, you need the actual spectral data for Bruce's
> > spreadsheet to get to density. LAB values won't do it. I've as of yet
> > been unable to get any i1 software to export the spectral data, unless
> > something purchased (additionally) will do it.
> > i1 informs me density will eventually be built into i1Share, but it's
> > not high on the developement list.
> > I could be dumb as a post, but so far the i1 is becoming a paper
> > weight for density use.
> > Any info would be apreciated.
> > Tyler

Carl and Tyler,

I'm also interested in using the Eye-One for density measurements.
Is there any difference between just using the L value from i1share
and formulas that Carl posted, and using the full spectral data  in
Bruce's spreadsheet?  Does the spectral info give more accurate data
when you a primarily just interested in gray density?

How can you get the device into "scan" mode and get a whole string
of patch values?

Roy


--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Tyler Boley" <tyler@t...> 
wrote:

> Carl, I just figured it out. In measure tool, hit device/port. There
> will be a check box for spectral. It will all be there when you export
> as text, unsure of what happens when you as one of their silly i1share
> formats. I have yet to find any decent documentation that tells me
> what neato things "share" will do for me.
> Try the above, you should be able to copy and paste it all into
> Bruce's spreadsheet.
> Just might solve it all, but I don't have time to play with it right
> now. If you are on the colorsync list you will find other informed
> responses to my questions about this there.
> I have other "issues" with this package, do you mind sharing a little
> off list mail?
> Tyler
> 
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Carl Schofield
> <scho@m...> wrote:
> > Tyler,
> > 
> > You can view the spectral data in i1Share via the property inspector, 
> > but as you noted there is no way to export the data, other than 
> > manually writing the numbers down and then entering them in the 
> > Lindbloom spreadsheet.  KeyWizard supposedly will import spectral data 
> > directly into a spreadsheet from the Eye-One, but only on a PC.  I've 
> > been calculating visual density from the L* values reported by i1Share 
> > using the equations (from Bruce Lindbloom)  I posted and they work good 
> > enough for my purposes.  I also contacted GM about getting density from 
> > the Eye-One and this was their response:
> >

Roy, I have not tried Carl's formulas, so he would be better qualified
to answer. Someone extremely knowledgeable told me I should be
linearizing via L values instead of density, so I've been anxious to
put that together but haven't had the time.
In order to scan, you must use MeasureTool, to get that you have to
download all of ProfileMakerPro and use MeasureTool in demo mode. I
would advise it as you will find it very useful.
The device itself seems fine, there are just some software
complexities to work out at first.
Tyler

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Roy Harrington"
<roy@h...> wrote:

> 
> Carl and Tyler,
> 
> I'm also interested in using the Eye-One for density measurements.
> Is there any difference between just using the L value from i1share
> and formulas that Carl posted, and using the full spectral data  in
> Bruce's spreadsheet?  Does the spectral info give more accurate data
> when you a primarily just interested in gray density?
> 
> How can you get the device into "scan" mode and get a whole string
> of patch values?
> 
> Roy