Digital BW, The Print

I've been talking to the guys at Reeds photo who have said that have found a
way to improve the density achieved on the lightjet to BW silver printing.
They are sending me a calibration kit as soon as it is ready and I'll report
back

Julian

Julian,

The black & white prints that I have made using the Lightjet 5000 at Reed
have had the following densities.

Have you had similar results?

paper white: 0.09  (0.09, 0.10, 0.07, 0.09 - R,G,B,V)
dMAX: 1.61  (1.60, 1.63, 1.64, 1.61 - R,G,B,V)

The 1.61 dMAX is typical of a matte finish RC paper regardless of how it was
exposed (conventional enlarger or LightJet)

I don't think there is anything the folks at Reed can do to improve the dMAX
of this Kodak paper, short of changing paper, which isn't likely, as this is
the only B&W silver/gelatin paper available for use in photoprinters.

I have their 'calibration kit' - it's only a CD with a few images in it.
They don't have any king of ICC profile for this B&W paper as far as I know.
If you know differently, please let us know.

I wasn't 'unhappy' with the B&W prints I made with the LightJet and this
Kodak paper. It's matte finish and slight warm tone are not much different
than other conventional RC papers I've used in the past.

I've also made B&W prints using the chromogenic (RA-4) color papers (Fuji
Crystal Archive and UltraChrome) that the LighJet and Chromira uses. I used
the glossy surface and got nice prints with a slightly cool look. The
density values I got with the Fuji Crystal Archive paper are as follows:

paper white: 0.09  (0.10, 0.10, 0.06, 0.09 - R,G,B,V)
dMAX: 2.10  (2.17, 2.11, 1.89, 2.10 - R,G,B,V)

If you are expecting to find the 'holy grail', ie - an air dried, glossy
fiber paper print on a LightJet or Chromira, you will have a long time to
wait! (as in forever)

Best Regards,

David R. Spielman

-----Original Message-----
From: Julian Thomas [mailto:julianthomas@...]
Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2003 12:41 PM
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Digital BW] BW lightjet (update)


I've been talking to the guys at Reeds photo who have said that have found a
way to improve the density achieved on the lightjet to BW silver printing.
They are sending me a calibration kit as soon as it is ready and I'll report
back

Julian



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I have doing plenty of research of doing direct digital to fiber based 
silver gelatin papers and I agree it will never happen. The papers ISO 
are way too slow.

Doing a digital interneg and contact printing does however work pretty 
well. Still nothing like throwing a neg in an enlarger and printing it 
directly. Some things were just not meant to be.

Mark

David R. Spielman wrote:

>Julian,
>
>The black & white prints that I have made using the Lightjet 5000 at Reed
>have had the following densities.
>
>Have you had similar results?
>
>paper white: 0.09  (0.09, 0.10, 0.07, 0.09 - R,G,B,V)
>dMAX: 1.61  (1.60, 1.63, 1.64, 1.61 - R,G,B,V)
>
>The 1.61 dMAX is typical of a matte finish RC paper regardless of how it was
>exposed (conventional enlarger or LightJet)
>
>I don't think there is anything the folks at Reed can do to improve the dMAX
>of this Kodak paper, short of changing paper, which isn't likely, as this is
>the only B&W silver/gelatin paper available for use in photoprinters.
>
>I have their 'calibration kit' - it's only a CD with a few images in it.
>They don't have any king of ICC profile for this B&W paper as far as I know.
>If you know differently, please let us know.
>
>I wasn't 'unhappy' with the B&W prints I made with the LightJet and this
>Kodak paper. It's matte finish and slight warm tone are not much different
>than other conventional RC papers I've used in the past.
>
>I've also made B&W prints using the chromogenic (RA-4) color papers (Fuji
>Crystal Archive and UltraChrome) that the LighJet and Chromira uses. I used
>the glossy surface and got nice prints with a slightly cool look. The
>density values I got with the Fuji Crystal Archive paper are as follows:
>
>paper white: 0.09  (0.10, 0.10, 0.06, 0.09 - R,G,B,V)
>dMAX: 2.10  (2.17, 2.11, 1.89, 2.10 - R,G,B,V)
>
>If you are expecting to find the 'holy grail', ie - an air dried, glossy
>fiber paper print on a LightJet or Chromira, you will have a long time to
>wait! (as in forever)
>
>Best Regards,
>
>David R. Spielman
>
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Julian Thomas [mailto:julianthomas@...]
>Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2003 12:41 PM
>To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [Digital BW] BW lightjet (update)
>
>
>I've been talking to the guys at Reeds photo who have said that have found a
>way to improve the density achieved on the lightjet to BW silver printing.
>They are sending me a calibration kit as soon as it is ready and I'll report
>back
>
>Julian
>
>
>
>Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and
>other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
>
>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
>
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>unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same
>page.
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>them short.
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>- Complete your Yahoo profile.
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>resources on the homepage.
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>
>
>
>
>
>Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
>
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>
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>
>
>
>
>
>  
>

I just had an email today after a few emails dealing with 'neutrality' and
they said they were doing something new and they'd hold off until July 11th
before sending me their CD. I'll take a look get a few made and report back.
BTW I made my best BW print in ages today - contact printing a 10x8

Julian
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "David R. Spielman" <david@...>
To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2003 10:14 PM
Subject: RE: [Digital BW] BW lightjet (update)


> Julian,
>
> The black & white prints that I have made using the Lightjet 5000 at Reed
> have had the following densities.
>
> Have you had similar results?
>
> paper white: 0.09  (0.09, 0.10, 0.07, 0.09 - R,G,B,V)
> dMAX: 1.61  (1.60, 1.63, 1.64, 1.61 - R,G,B,V)
>
> The 1.61 dMAX is typical of a matte finish RC paper regardless of how it
was
> exposed (conventional enlarger or LightJet)
>
> I don't think there is anything the folks at Reed can do to improve the
dMAX
> of this Kodak paper, short of changing paper, which isn't likely, as this
is
> the only B&W silver/gelatin paper available for use in photoprinters.
>
> I have their 'calibration kit' - it's only a CD with a few images in it.
> They don't have any king of ICC profile for this B&W paper as far as I
know.
> If you know differently, please let us know.
>
> I wasn't 'unhappy' with the B&W prints I made with the LightJet and this
> Kodak paper. It's matte finish and slight warm tone are not much different
> than other conventional RC papers I've used in the past.
>
> I've also made B&W prints using the chromogenic (RA-4) color papers (Fuji
> Crystal Archive and UltraChrome) that the LighJet and Chromira uses. I
used
> the glossy surface and got nice prints with a slightly cool look. The
> density values I got with the Fuji Crystal Archive paper are as follows:
>
> paper white: 0.09  (0.10, 0.10, 0.06, 0.09 - R,G,B,V)
> dMAX: 2.10  (2.17, 2.11, 1.89, 2.10 - R,G,B,V)
>
> If you are expecting to find the 'holy grail', ie - an air dried, glossy
> fiber paper print on a LightJet or Chromira, you will have a long time to
> wait! (as in forever)
>
> Best Regards,
>
> David R. Spielman
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Julian Thomas [mailto:julianthomas@...]
> Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2003 12:41 PM
> To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Digital BW] BW lightjet (update)
>
>
> I've been talking to the guys at Reeds photo who have said that have found
a
> way to improve the density achieved on the lightjet to BW silver printing.
> They are sending me a calibration kit as soon as it is ready and I'll
report
> back
>
> Julian
>
>
>
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and
> other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
>
> If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to
> unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same
> page.
>
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> - Include your full name with your message.
> - Include the address of your website, if you have one.
> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep
> them short.
> - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject header.
> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames
> - Complete your Yahoo profile.
> - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the various
> resources on the homepage.
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and
other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
>
> If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to
unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same
page.
>
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> - Include your full name with your message.
> - Include the address of your website, if you have one.
> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep
them short.
> - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject header.
> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames
> - Complete your Yahoo profile.
> - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the various
resources on the homepage.

>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>

Mark,

As you say you have been researching direct digital to fiber based methods,
I'm sure you probably have see this, but on the odd chance you haven't,
check out this internet link:
http://www.odyssey-sales.co.uk/news/browse.asp?article=6

It's for a standard enlarger with a 'digital' head attached in place of the
regular one. Uses the same technology as the digital theater projectors you
find in some movie theaters. No film negatives involved, just load you
digital file from the computer and enlarge away onto any silver paper you
want to use.

The only catch, this things costs about $15,000 if memory serves me
correctly! But it is currently the ONLY way I know of to make silver/fiber
prints from digital images.


Best Regards,

David R. Spielman

-----Original Message-----
From: Mark Savoia [mailto:mark@...]
Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2003 2:06 PM
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Digital BW] BW lightjet (update)


I have doing plenty of research of doing direct digital to fiber based
silver gelatin papers and I agree it will never happen. The papers ISO
are way too slow.

Doing a digital interneg and contact printing does however work pretty
well. Still nothing like throwing a neg in an enlarger and printing it
directly. Some things were just not meant to be.

Mark

David R. Spielman wrote:

>Julian,
>
>The black & white prints that I have made using the Lightjet 5000 at Reed
>have had the following densities.
>
>Have you had similar results?
>
>paper white: 0.09  (0.09, 0.10, 0.07, 0.09 - R,G,B,V)
>dMAX: 1.61  (1.60, 1.63, 1.64, 1.61 - R,G,B,V)
>
>The 1.61 dMAX is typical of a matte finish RC paper regardless of how it
was
>exposed (conventional enlarger or LightJet)
>
>I don't think there is anything the folks at Reed can do to improve the
dMAX
>of this Kodak paper, short of changing paper, which isn't likely, as this
is
>the only B&W silver/gelatin paper available for use in photoprinters.
>
>I have their 'calibration kit' - it's only a CD with a few images in it.
>They don't have any king of ICC profile for this B&W paper as far as I
know.
>If you know differently, please let us know.
>
>I wasn't 'unhappy' with the B&W prints I made with the LightJet and this
>Kodak paper. It's matte finish and slight warm tone are not much different
>than other conventional RC papers I've used in the past.
>
>I've also made B&W prints using the chromogenic (RA-4) color papers (Fuji
>Crystal Archive and UltraChrome) that the LighJet and Chromira uses. I used
>the glossy surface and got nice prints with a slightly cool look. The
>density values I got with the Fuji Crystal Archive paper are as follows:
>
>paper white: 0.09  (0.10, 0.10, 0.06, 0.09 - R,G,B,V)
>dMAX: 2.10  (2.17, 2.11, 1.89, 2.10 - R,G,B,V)
>
>If you are expecting to find the 'holy grail', ie - an air dried, glossy
>fiber paper print on a LightJet or Chromira, you will have a long time to
>wait! (as in forever)
>
>Best Regards,
>
>David R. Spielman
>
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Julian Thomas [mailto:julianthomas@...]
>Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2003 12:41 PM
>To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [Digital BW] BW lightjet (update)
>
>
>I've been talking to the guys at Reeds photo who have said that have found
a
>way to improve the density achieved on the lightjet to BW silver printing.
>They are sending me a calibration kit as soon as it is ready and I'll
report
>back
>
>Julian
>
>
>
>Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and
>other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
>
>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
>
>If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to
>unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same
>page.
>
>Please follow these basic guidelines:
>- Include your full name with your message.
>- Include the address of your website, if you have one.
>- As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep
>them short.
>- As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject header.
>- Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames
>- Complete your Yahoo profile.
>- Before posting a question, search the message archives and the various
>resources on the homepage.
>
>
>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
>
>
>
>Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and
other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
>
>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
>
>If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to
unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same
page.
>
>Please follow these basic guidelines:
>- Include your full name with your message.
>- Include the address of your website, if you have one.
>- As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep
them short.
>- As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject header.
>- Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames
>- Complete your Yahoo profile.
>- Before posting a question, search the message archives and the various
resources on the homepage.
>
>
>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
>
>
>
>




Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and
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on 7/10/2003 4:51 PM, DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com at
DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com wrote:

> 
> Message: 22
> Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 16:19:46 -0700
> From: "David R. Spielman" <david@...>
> Subject: RE: BW lightjet (update)
> 
> Mark,
> 
> As you say you have been researching direct digital to fiber based methods,
> I'm sure you probably have see this, but on the odd chance you haven't,
> check out this internet link:
> http://www.odyssey-sales.co.uk/news/browse.asp?article=6
> 
> It's for a standard enlarger with a 'digital' head attached in place of the
> regular one. Uses the same technology as the digital theater projectors you
> find in some movie theaters. No film negatives involved, just load you
> digital file from the computer and enlarge away onto any silver paper you
> want to use.
> 
> The only catch, this things costs about $15,000 if memory serves me
> correctly! But it is currently the ONLY way I know of to make silver/fiber
> prints from digital images.
> 
> 
> Best Regards,

I wrote to them a few months ago to ask what labs use this enlarger in the
states.  They wrote back and said none yet, but I could buy it for $30,000.

Oh, well...
 
-Bruce

Visit my website at:
http://home.earthlink.net/~smthopr

$30,000!!   Ouch!! That hurts........

Best Regards,

David R. Spielman

I wrote to them a few months ago to ask what labs use this enlarger in the
states.  They wrote back and said none yet, but I could buy it for $30,000.

Oh, well...

-Bruce

Visit my website at:
http://home.earthlink.net/~smthopr


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Actually it cost more like $30,000. It will only do up to 16x20 and even 
that looks not great. I looked at one at a trade show and it really is 
designed for "amateur" work. At $30,000 it must be for wealthy amateurs! 
It has a translucent high res LCD screen in place of where the neg 
carrier would be. You just project light through it and through the 
lens. You can also find this same technology with the d-carriers made 
for minilabs. The d-carrier prints max out at 8x10.

Mark

David R. Spielman wrote:

>Mark,
>
>As you say you have been researching direct digital to fiber based methods,
>I'm sure you probably have see this, but on the odd chance you haven't,
>check out this internet link:
>http://www.odyssey-sales.co.uk/news/browse.asp?article=6
>
>It's for a standard enlarger with a 'digital' head attached in place of the
>regular one. Uses the same technology as the digital theater projectors you
>find in some movie theaters. No film negatives involved, just load you
>digital file from the computer and enlarge away onto any silver paper you
>want to use.
>
>The only catch, this things costs about $15,000 if memory serves me
>correctly! But it is currently the ONLY way I know of to make silver/fiber
>prints from digital images.
>
>
>Best Regards,
>
>David R. Spielman
>
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Mark Savoia [mailto:mark@...]
>Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2003 2:06 PM
>To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: Re: [Digital BW] BW lightjet (update)
>
>
>I have doing plenty of research of doing direct digital to fiber based
>silver gelatin papers and I agree it will never happen. The papers ISO
>are way too slow.
>
>Doing a digital interneg and contact printing does however work pretty
>well. Still nothing like throwing a neg in an enlarger and printing it
>directly. Some things were just not meant to be.
>
>Mark
>
>David R. Spielman wrote:
>
>  
>
>>Julian,
>>
>>The black & white prints that I have made using the Lightjet 5000 at Reed
>>have had the following densities.
>>
>>Have you had similar results?
>>
>>paper white: 0.09  (0.09, 0.10, 0.07, 0.09 - R,G,B,V)
>>dMAX: 1.61  (1.60, 1.63, 1.64, 1.61 - R,G,B,V)
>>
>>The 1.61 dMAX is typical of a matte finish RC paper regardless of how it
>>    
>>
>was
>  
>
>>exposed (conventional enlarger or LightJet)
>>
>>I don't think there is anything the folks at Reed can do to improve the
>>    
>>
>dMAX
>  
>
>>of this Kodak paper, short of changing paper, which isn't likely, as this
>>    
>>
>is
>  
>
>>the only B&W silver/gelatin paper available for use in photoprinters.
>>
>>I have their 'calibration kit' - it's only a CD with a few images in it.
>>They don't have any king of ICC profile for this B&W paper as far as I
>>    
>>
>know.
>  
>
>>If you know differently, please let us know.
>>
>>I wasn't 'unhappy' with the B&W prints I made with the LightJet and this
>>Kodak paper. It's matte finish and slight warm tone are not much different
>>than other conventional RC papers I've used in the past.
>>
>>I've also made B&W prints using the chromogenic (RA-4) color papers (Fuji
>>Crystal Archive and UltraChrome) that the LighJet and Chromira uses. I used
>>the glossy surface and got nice prints with a slightly cool look. The
>>density values I got with the Fuji Crystal Archive paper are as follows:
>>
>>paper white: 0.09  (0.10, 0.10, 0.06, 0.09 - R,G,B,V)
>>dMAX: 2.10  (2.17, 2.11, 1.89, 2.10 - R,G,B,V)
>>
>>If you are expecting to find the 'holy grail', ie - an air dried, glossy
>>fiber paper print on a LightJet or Chromira, you will have a long time to
>>wait! (as in forever)
>>
>>Best Regards,
>>
>>David R. Spielman
>>
>>
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: Julian Thomas [mailto:julianthomas@...]
>>Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2003 12:41 PM
>>To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
>>Subject: [Digital BW] BW lightjet (update)
>>
>>
>>I've been talking to the guys at Reeds photo who have said that have found
>>    
>>
>a
>  
>
>>way to improve the density achieved on the lightjet to BW silver printing.
>>They are sending me a calibration kit as soon as it is ready and I'll
>>    
>>
>report
>  
>
>>back
>>
>>Julian
>>
>>
>>
>>Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and
>>other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
>>
>>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
>>
>>If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to
>>unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same
>>page.
>>
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on 7/11/2003 4:50 PM, DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com at
DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com wrote:

> 
> Message: 2
> Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 07:48:14 -0400
> From: Mark Savoia <mark@...>
> Subject: Re: BW lightjet (update)
> 
> Actually it cost more like $30,000. It will only do up to 16x20 and even
> that looks not great. I looked at one at a trade show and it really is
> designed for "amateur" work. At $30,000 it must be for wealthy amateurs!
> It has a translucent high res LCD screen in place of where the neg
> carrier would be. You just project light through it and through the
> lens. You can also find this same technology with the d-carriers made
> for minilabs. The d-carrier prints max out at 8x10.
> 
> Mark
> 
> David R. Spielman wrote:

David,

Did you see any prints?
 
-Bruce

Visit my website at:
http://home.earthlink.net/~smthopr

Bruce,

If you are referring to the De Vere 504 DS Digital Enlarger, the answer is
NO. But I sure would like to!
Do you have any?
If so, what are they like?
What kind of paper was used? RC? Fiber?

Best Regards,

David R. Spielman

-----Original Message-----
From: Bruce [mailto:smthopr@...]
Sent: Friday, July 11, 2003 7:19 PM
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Digital BW] Re: BW lightjet (update)

on 7/11/2003 4:50 PM, DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com at
DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com wrote:

>
> Message: 2
> Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 07:48:14 -0400
> From: Mark Savoia <mark@...>
> Subject: Re: BW lightjet (update)
>
> Actually it cost more like $30,000. It will only do up to 16x20 and even
> that looks not great. I looked at one at a trade show and it really is
> designed for "amateur" work. At $30,000 it must be for wealthy amateurs!
> It has a translucent high res LCD screen in place of where the neg
> carrier would be. You just project light through it and through the
> lens. You can also find this same technology with the d-carriers made
> for minilabs. The d-carrier prints max out at 8x10.
>
> Mark
>
> David R. Spielman wrote:

David,

Did you see any prints?

-Bruce

Visit my website at:
http://home.earthlink.net/~smthopr




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