Digital BW, The Print

I recently downloaded the trial version of Imaging Factory's black-
and-white conversion software (not the pro version).  For one thing 
it comes with a reasonable price.  And more important, I like the 
sliders the software provides...much better I think than typing in 
numbers.  And I like the number of sliders.  Would anyone care to 
compare this software with working through the various options that 
Photoshop provides?  I'm thinking of channels, calculations, 
lightness channel, etc.

Thanks in advance from Norm

Hi Norm,
I downloaded it too, after reading the discussion about converting Colour to B&W. I posted a question, a couple of weeks ago, about terrible posterisation problems I have experienced printing with MIS VM inkset and the conversion techniques associated with PS. The first print from the ImageFactory program had no posterisation, and all of PRoark's curves worked, not just the greyscale.
I have come across this posterisation a lot recently, and I am beginning to suspect that PS7 has a problem with it. Perhaps, PS8 will address the problem because of the upsurge in interest in printing B&W. Anyway, the ImageFactory program has moved me on from producing rubbish to producing b&w photographs, now I just need to fine tune so that I get beautifully printed photographs.
Hope this helps.
John

Hi

I've got a web page at <http://northlight-images.co.uk/bwfromcol.html> that
compares different methods of conversion and has some examples from Imaging
Factory.

If anyone has any PhotoShop methods that are not included, please let me
know and I'll add them to the page...


bye for now   

Keith Cooper

Northlight Images
http://northlight-images.co.uk
Photography - Digital Imaging - Apple Mac Consultancy

Tel +44 (0)116 291 9092 Mobile +44 (0)780 162 9397

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Keith Cooper 
<yahoogroups@n...> wrote:
>> If anyone has any PhotoShop methods that are not included, please 
let me
> know and I'll add them to the page...
> 
> 
> bye for now   
> 
> Keith Cooper

Here's an old b&w conversion method that seems to be nearly forgotten:

Image -- Calculations 

Channel: Alpha1 or whaterver suits you best.
Blending: Multiply or Overlay.

And last, Image -- Mode -- Grayscale

Cheers,
Andre

Seems like people are looking for magic where there isn't any.  You 
get an RGB image (ie. an NxMx3 matrix) and you need to covert it to a 
grayscale image (ie. and NxM matrix).  The only way to do that is to 
combine the RGB channels into a single grayscale value somehow.  This 
is what the channel mixer does, just simpley sums scaled values from 
each channel.  If you convert to HSB or LAB color space you don't do 
anything but transform you data into a new coordinate frame before 
essentially channel mixing... you don't gain anything in the 
transformation because you essentially haven't done anything... and 
there isn't any magic.  You can do more fancy math during your mixing 
to directly control contrast etc. or you can do it later using curves 
etc., but if done correctly it shouldn't matter how you do it (ok, 
that is theoretically true... in PS, 8-bit data rounding errors 
occur, but you shouldn't be pushing your images that far anyway).

If you like the sliders of one tool over the other, no reason that 
you shouldn't use it, but you aren't going to get better results 
using one method over another (unless of course you don't understand 
what you are doing).

Mark

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Keith Cooper 
<yahoogroups@n...> wrote:
> Hi
> 
> I've got a web page at <http://northlight-
images.co.uk/bwfromcol.html> that
> compares different methods of conversion and has some examples from 
Imaging
> Factory.
> 
> If anyone has any PhotoShop methods that are not included, please 
let me

> know and I'll add them to the page...
> 
> 
> bye for now   
> 
> Keith Cooper
> 
> Northlight Images
> http://northlight-images.co.uk
> Photography - Digital Imaging - Apple Mac Consultancy
> 
> Tel +44 (0)116 291 9092 Mobile +44 (0)780 162 9397

>Seems like people are looking for magic where there isn't any.

Hi

Not me for one...

The comparisons I put up are as much to show that there are often many
routes for getting from A to B via Photoshop, as to saying any one way is
better.

Sometimes I know exactly how I want an image to look. Sometimes I don't know
the effect I'm looking for until I see it. Different techniques, by their
nature, allow you to explore different sets of variations with varying ease.

Not everyone has such deep understanding of how Photoshop works :-)) I for
one use most of its functions without ever going into the maths behind them.

Some of the best Photoshop users I've met, regularly challenge their ways of
working, looking for that different approach that can lead their creativity
down an untrodden path -- that's where the magic comes in :-))

bye for now   

Keith Cooper

Northlight Images
http://northlight-images.co.uk
Photography - Digital Imaging - Apple Mac Consultancy

Tel +44 (0)116 291 9092 Mobile +44 (0)780 162 9397

Hey Keith,

I think I came on a bit strong:)  I like what's on your website and 
didn't mean to imply that it wasn't useful information... but there 
have been/are discussions going on about best ways to mix down to b&w 
from color and it seems that a large majority of users don't have a 
clue what they are actually doing... just wanted to try and clarify 
that.

The real magic for me is in the image... what it can do besides being 
a huge bunch of binary numbers.

Personally, I thought it was much easier to play with film, chemicals 
and paper with the belief that is was all just magic... but once I 
started getting serious about digital imaging *I* found that I really 
had to start learning what the computer was doing on a pixel for 
pixel level before I could consistantly get good results.

...anyway... good stuff!

mark

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Keith Cooper 
<yahoogroups@n...> wrote:
> >Seems like people are looking for magic where there isn't any.
> 
> Hi
> 
> Not me for one...
> 
> The comparisons I put up are as much to show that there are often 
many
> routes for getting from A to B via Photoshop, as to saying any one 
way is
> better.
> 
> Sometimes I know exactly how I want an image to look. Sometimes I 
don't know
> the effect I'm looking for until I see it. Different techniques, by 
their
> nature, allow you to explore different sets of variations with 
varying ease.
> 
> Not everyone has such deep understanding of how Photoshop works :-
)) I for
> one use most of its functions without ever going into the maths 
behind them.
> 
> Some of the best Photoshop users I've met, regularly challenge 
their ways of
> working, looking for that different approach that can lead their 
creativity

> down an untrodden path -- that's where the magic comes in :-))
> 
> bye for now   
> 
> Keith Cooper
> 
> Northlight Images
> http://northlight-images.co.uk
> Photography - Digital Imaging - Apple Mac Consultancy
> 
> Tel +44 (0)116 291 9092 Mobile +44 (0)780 162 9397

Keith

Russel Brown has a unique was to convert to BW using 2 layers of Hue 
and Saturation described on his website. 
http://www.russellbrown.com/body.html  Fun to play with and affords 
instant feedback.
Paul                                                           --- 
In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Keith Cooper 
<yahoogroups@n...> wrote:
> Hi
> 
> I've got a web page at <http://northlight-
images.co.uk/bwfromcol.html> that
> compares different methods of conversion and has some examples 
from Imaging
> Factory.
> 
> If anyone has any PhotoShop methods that are not included, please 
let me

> know and I'll add them to the page...
> 
> 
> bye for now   
> 
> Keith Cooper
> 
> Northlight Images
> http://northlight-images.co.uk
> Photography - Digital Imaging - Apple Mac Consultancy
> 
> Tel +44 (0)116 291 9092 Mobile +44 (0)780 162 9397

Bwinkjet wrote:

<Russel Brown has a unique was to convert to BW using 2 layers of Hue 
and Saturation described on his website. 
http://www.russellbrown.com/body.html Fun to play with and affords 
instant feedback.>

Thanks for the link.  I like the method.  I'm finding that by 
clicking on the list of individual colors in the pull-down I can do 
more than with the sliders in Imaging Factory.

Norm