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Pyro Development for Negatives to be Scanned

Pyro Development for Negatives to be Scanned

2003-08-05 by jmoore172002

I apologize if this post is too much off topic.

I am interested in exploring Pyro development for my 4x5 sheet film 
negatives to be scanned for Piezo printing. I shoot HP5+, process my 
film in a Jobo CPP-2 rotary processor, scan on a Polaroid SprintScan 
45 Ultra, then print using PiezographyBW on an Epson 1280 and an 
Epson 7600. I plan on using the Pyro ABC (Rollo Pyro) formulation.

This will be my initial foray into Pyro development. I have a couple 
of questions for any experienced Pyro users out there.

1) With respect to scanning, is the staining effect of Pyro 
development beneficial or detrimental?

2) Any recommendations for starting development times for HP5+ and 
Rollo Pyro?

3) In a rotary processor, should I pre-soak, and for how long?

Any input from experienced pyro users is very much appreciated. 
Thanks.

Re: [Digital BW] Pyro Development for Negatives to be Scanned

2003-08-05 by D. Hill

I follow Chuck Farmer's methods with a bit of
personalization when developing PMK in a Jobo found
here: http://www.jobo-usa.com/jq/jq9502.htm

It is a very fine write-up and handles most of the
developing/presoak questions - I can't really add
more.  However, I have found pyro to be very
compatible with digital processing and methods.  

Don  

   
--- jmoore172002 <jeffmoore17@...> wrote:

> 1) With respect to scanning, is the staining effect
> of Pyro 
> development beneficial or detrimental?
> 
> 2) Any recommendations for starting development
> times for HP5+ and 
> Rollo Pyro?
> 
> 3) In a rotary processor, should I pre-soak, and for
> how long?
> 
> Any input from experienced pyro users is very much
> appreciated. 
> Thanks.
> 
> 


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RE: [Digital BW] Pyro Development for Negatives to be Scanned

2003-08-05 by Martin Wesley

> -----Original Message-----
> From: jmoore172002 [mailto:jeffmoore17@...]
> Sent: Monday, August 04, 2003 9:22 PM
> To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Digital BW] Pyro Development for Negatives to be Scanned
>
>
> I apologize if this post is too much off topic.
>
> I am interested in exploring Pyro development for my 4x5 sheet film
> negatives to be scanned for Piezo printing. I shoot HP5+, process my
> film in a Jobo CPP-2 rotary processor, scan on a Polaroid SprintScan
> 45 Ultra, then print using PiezographyBW on an Epson 1280 and an
> Epson 7600. I plan on using the Pyro ABC (Rollo Pyro) formulation.
>
> This will be my initial foray into Pyro development. I have a couple
> of questions for any experienced Pyro users out there.
>
> 1) With respect to scanning, is the staining effect of Pyro
> development beneficial or detrimental?
>
> 2) Any recommendations for starting development times for HP5+ and
> Rollo Pyro?
>
> 3) In a rotary processor, should I pre-soak, and for how long?
>
> Any input from experienced pyro users is very much appreciated.
> Thanks.
>
Jeff,

I have been using Pyro in a Jobo CPA-2 for the last 11 or so years. I mostly
use  my own PBC pyro formula or occasionally PMK with the nitrogen blanket
set-up as described in Gordon Hutchings "The Book of Pyro." I insert sheet
film dry into the drum and use a single 5 minute presoak with tap water. All
the benefits of Pyro for enlarger printing seem to carry over to digital
scanning as well and I have not found any need to change my development. I
shoot FP4+ and Tmax 400 in 4x5.

I also develop 35mm and 120 film in reels with Pyro on the Jobo with
nitrogen blanketing. Works great.

I was not able to entirely eliminate mottling in the Jobo without the
nitrogen purge. The Chuck Farmer method Don mentioned in his post sounds
promising but rather time consuming compared to using the purge. I am not
familiar with the Rollo formula.

During scanning with a Howtek D4000 I use just the blue channel for 16-bit
grayscale to take advantage of the yellow image stain density. Occasionally
I will scan in RGB and play with the channel mixer if it is a problem neg.

Martin Wesley

Re: [Digital BW] Pyro Development for Negatives to be Scanned

2003-08-05 by wilfredm71047

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Martin Wesley" 
<mwesley250@e...> wrote:
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: jmoore172002 [mailto:jeffmoore17@c...]
> > Sent: Monday, August 04, 2003 9:22 PM
> > To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: [Digital BW] Pyro Development for Negatives to be Scanned
> >
> >
> > I apologize if this post is too much off topic.
> >
> > I am interested in exploring Pyro development for my 4x5 sheet 
film
> > negatives to be scanned for Piezo printing. I shoot HP5+, process 
my
> > film in a Jobo CPP-2 rotary processor, scan on a Polaroid 
SprintScan
> > 45 Ultra, then print using PiezographyBW on an Epson 1280 and an
> > Epson 7600. I plan on using the Pyro ABC (Rollo Pyro) formulation.
> >
> > This will be my initial foray into Pyro development. I have a 
couple
> > of questions for any experienced Pyro users out there.
> >
> > 1) With respect to scanning, is the staining effect of Pyro
> > development beneficial or detrimental?
> >
> > 2) Any recommendations for starting development times for HP5+ and
> > Rollo Pyro?
> >
> > 3) In a rotary processor, should I pre-soak, and for how long?
> >
> > Any input from experienced pyro users is very much appreciated.
> > Thanks.
> >
> Jeff,
> 
> I have been using Pyro in a Jobo CPA-2 for the last 11 or so years. 
I mostly
> use  my own PBC pyro formula or occasionally PMK with the nitrogen 
blanket
> set-up as described in Gordon Hutchings "The Book of Pyro." I 
insert sheet
> film dry into the drum and use a single 5 minute presoak with tap 
water. All
> the benefits of Pyro for enlarger printing seem to carry over to 
digital
> scanning as well and I have not found any need to change my 
development. I
> shoot FP4+ and Tmax 400 in 4x5.
> 
> I also develop 35mm and 120 film in reels with Pyro on the Jobo with
> nitrogen blanketing. Works great.
> 
> I was not able to entirely eliminate mottling in the Jobo without 
the
> nitrogen purge. The Chuck Farmer method Don mentioned in his post 
sounds
> promising but rather time consuming compared to using the purge. I 
am not
> familiar with the Rollo formula.
> 
> During scanning with a Howtek D4000 I use just the blue channel for 
16-bit
> grayscale to take advantage of the yellow image stain density. 
Occasionally
> I will scan in RGB and play with the channel mixer if it is a 
problem neg.
> 
> Martin Wesley

>I have been successful with Pyro and have gotten most of my info 
>from Gordon Hutchings "The Book of Pyro". I,like Martin use a 5 
>minute pre-soak. Instead of the nitron burst, I found that two very 
>short,"1 minute and 30 second development at 80degrees" worked well 
>for me. One thing that gave me trouble was these splotches on the 
>the film after completing the process. I found them to be where 
>prewet water splashed on the film while introducing the water into 
>the drum. Everywhere a drop of water hit the dry film, even though 
>that drop didn't stay there for a fraction of a second, it caused  
>that spot to show in the dry negative. To eleminate this I would 
>take the drum with no lid in place, and push it into a 2 gallon pale 
>full of my pre-soak water. A steady, and slightly rapid sinking of 
>the entire drum flooded the film fast enough as not to allow any 
>part of the film to remain wet before all of it was wet. Then I 
>would install the lid and tap the bottom of the drum on the counter 
>to eleminate any air bubbles. This >eleminated the splotches for me. 
>I call it the Wilfred Dunk. He,He.
    Wilfred Smith.

RE: Pyro Development for Negatives to be Scanned

2003-08-05 by adounoucos@aol.com

While you're exploring Pyro development, look at the July/August issue of 
Photo Techniques which has an article 'How I created my special Monochrome 
Developer". The author, Barry Thornton refers to Pyro and other techniques and came 
up with his own formula.   He has a web site   if you can't find this issue:

     www.barrythornton.com

Let us know how you do.

Angelo Dounoucos


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: Pyro Development for Negatives to be Scanned

2003-08-05 by B. Alex Pettit Jr.

I have been using Barry's Exactol Lux and Archivex fixer with Tmax100.
The Exactol Lux is a mild staining and sharpening developer.

In looking at the emulsion side of the film at an angle, the
ExactolLux processed film shows a very strong BasRelief in comparison
to TmaxRS developer- the 'on film sharpening' effect. It scans well in
my SprintScan 45.

Consider Barry's book Elements of Transition - good ideas on film
processing, scanning, a few Photoshop tweaks and Piezo printing.

Best,
Alex


The author, Barry Thornton refers to Pyro and other techniques and came 
> up with his own formula.   He has a web site   if you can't find
this issue:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> 
>      www.barrythornton.com
> 
> Let us know how you do.
> 
> Angelo Dounoucos
> 
>

RE: [Digital BW] Pyro Development for Negatives to be Scanned

2003-08-05 by Martin Wesley

> -----Original Message-----
> From: wilfredm71047 [mailto:wilfredm@...]
> Sent: Tuesday, August 05, 2003 6:43 AM
> To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Pyro Development for Negatives to be Scanned
>
(snip earlier)
>
> >I have been successful with Pyro and have gotten most of my info
> >from Gordon Hutchings "The Book of Pyro". I,like Martin use a 5
> >minute pre-soak. Instead of the nitron burst, I found that two very
> >short,"1 minute and 30 second development at 80degrees" worked well
> >for me. One thing that gave me trouble was these splotches on the
> >the film after completing the process. I found them to be where
> >prewet water splashed on the film while introducing the water into
> >the drum. Everywhere a drop of water hit the dry film, even though
> >that drop didn't stay there for a fraction of a second, it caused
> >that spot to show in the dry negative. To eleminate this I would
> >take the drum with no lid in place, and push it into a 2 gallon pale
> >full of my pre-soak water. A steady, and slightly rapid sinking of
> >the entire drum flooded the film fast enough as not to allow any
> >part of the film to remain wet before all of it was wet. Then I
> >would install the lid and tap the bottom of the drum on the counter
> >to eleminate any air bubbles. This >eleminated the splotches for me.
> >I call it the Wilfred Dunk. He,He.
>     Wilfred Smith.

Wilfred,

Thanks for the "Dunk" tip. I know people have problems with water spotting
during the presoak fill including Gordon Hutchings. For some reason (local
water?) I have never encountered it. I just pour a gallon or so of water in
through the lid's fill port with the drum slightly tilted to one side. Your
filling method sounds so easy though I'll give it a try.

With the high temp, short development time, how do you manage your N-1, N-2,
N-3, etc. developments?

Martin

Re: [Digital BW] Pyro Development for Negatives to be Scanned

2003-08-06 by Ken Carney

That may be what I'm doing wrong.  I can get fair RGB or gray channel scans
with PMK negs, and not very good scans at all with Rollo.  Back to the
drawing board.  Thanks.

Regards,

  --Ken Carney
    www.kencarney.com


> During scanning with a Howtek D4000 I use just the blue channel for 16-bit
> grayscale to take advantage of the yellow image stain density.
Occasionally
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> I will scan in RGB and play with the channel mixer if it is a problem neg.
>
> Martin Wesley

RE: [Digital BW] Pyro Development for Negatives to be Scanned

2003-08-06 by Martin Wesley

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Martin Wesley [mailto:mwesley250@...]
> Sent: Monday, August 04, 2003 11:11 PM
> To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: RE: [Digital BW] Pyro Development for Negatives to be Scanned
>
>
> I insert sheet
> film dry into the drum and use a single 5 minute presoak with tap
> water.

Ooops! Have to correct myself here due to senile dementia and too much time
making prints and not enough time developing film! I presoak for 5 minutes
by adding a liter of distilled water while the dry drum is on the Jobo with
the rotation set to about "4". At the end of this time I empty the drum and
fill it completely with tape water while off the Jobo. I then put it back on
the Jobo and empty it with the nitrogen purge running so that the water is
displaced by the nitrogen. This leaves me with a virtually oxygen free
environment in the drum for development. I reduce the nitrogen flow and keep
it going through out the development step.

Martin Wesley

Re: Pyro Development for Negatives to be Scanned

2003-08-06 by jymbo4600

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "jmoore172002" 
<jeffmoore17@c...> wrote:
> I apologize if this post is too much off topic.
> 
> I am interested in exploring Pyro development for my 4x5 sheet 
film 
> negatives to be scanned for Piezo printing. I shoot HP5+, process 
my 
> film in a Jobo CPP-2 rotary processor, scan on a Polaroid 
SprintScan 
> 45 Ultra, then print using PiezographyBW on an Epson 1280 and an 
> Epson 7600. I plan on using the Pyro ABC (Rollo Pyro) formulation.
> 
> This will be my initial foray into Pyro development. I have a 
couple 
> of questions for any experienced Pyro users out there.
> 
> 1) With respect to scanning, is the staining effect of Pyro 
> development beneficial or detrimental?
> 

If you go to www.barrythornton.com he has a new Pyro formula that he 
mixes specially for scanning. I have had great luck with PMK for 
years, with no blotching and I tank develop by hand. Even my old 
Diana negatives scan beautifully. Thornton's developer does a lovely 
job too. Jim Weekes
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> 2) Any recommendations for starting development times for HP5+ and 
> Rollo Pyro?
> 
> 3) In a rotary processor, should I pre-soak, and for how long?
> 
> Any input from experienced pyro users is very much appreciated. 
> Thanks.

Re: Pyro Development for Negatives to be Scanned

2003-08-06 by photographyworks

If you use a rotary drum machine go with PMK. After the first half 
of total development time substitute with fresh developer to avoid 
getting  non actinic stain. The results will be awesome in every 
respect and especially for scanning.
Hope this helps.

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "jymbo4600" 
<jymbo46@b...> wrote:
> --- In 
DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "jmoore172002" 
> <jeffmoore17@c...> wrote:
> > I apologize if this post is too much off topic.
> > 
> > I am interested in exploring Pyro development for my 4x5 sheet 
> film 
> > negatives to be scanned for Piezo printing. I shoot HP5+, 
process 
> my 
> > film in a Jobo CPP-2 rotary processor, scan on a Polaroid 
> SprintScan 
> > 45 Ultra, then print using PiezographyBW on an Epson 1280 and an 
> > Epson 7600. I plan on using the Pyro ABC (Rollo Pyro) 
formulation.
> > 
> > This will be my initial foray into Pyro development. I have a 
> couple 
> > of questions for any experienced Pyro users out there.
> > 
> > 1) With respect to scanning, is the staining effect of Pyro 
> > development beneficial or detrimental?
> > 
> 
> If you go to www.barrythornton.com he has a new Pyro formula that 
he 
> mixes specially for scanning. I have had great luck with PMK for 
> years, with no blotching and I tank develop by hand. Even my old 
> Diana negatives scan beautifully. Thornton's developer does a 
lovely 
> job too. Jim Weekes
> > 2) Any recommendations for starting development times for HP5+ 
and 
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> > Rollo Pyro?
> > 
> > 3) In a rotary processor, should I pre-soak, and for how long?
> > 
> > Any input from experienced pyro users is very much appreciated. 
> > Thanks.

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