Digital BW, The Print

I have been doing some experimenting on how much bronzing there is 
when using UT on glossy surfaces.  By chance I have photo which I 
ended up painting pure black on some of the areas to increase 
contrast and when printed on Permajet Glossy & Oyster and Fuji 
MultiJet these are the only areas which have any hint of bronzing.

Paul any ideas why.  To combat this I have repainted them 94% black 
because I know that it does not bronze/shine differently until above 
95% on the wedge graph I have.

Oh and by the way I do like these UT inks, my only criticism is that 
they are too warm.  Even the NC1 curve is 'brown' when placed next to 
a black only print.

I am using NCA in the driver so how do I adjust the tone on the print 
without using the sliders in the driver?

Gareth

Gareth,

>I have been doing some experimenting on how much bronzing there is
>when using UT on glossy surfaces.  By chance I have photo which I
>ended up painting pure black on some of the areas to increase
>contrast and when printed on Permajet Glossy & Oyster and Fuji
>MultiJet these are the only areas which have any hint of bronzing.

MIS claims that the Permajet RC paper is bronzing-free.  Perhaps that is
just a relative judgment, however.  They are sending my some for testing.

>Oh and by the way I do like these UT inks, my only criticism is that
>they are too warm.  Even the NC1 curve is 'brown' when placed next to
>a black only print.

Is the warmth just in the shadow tones or throughout the print?

>I am using NCA in the driver so how do I adjust the tone on the print
>without using the sliders in the driver?

Use a different curve.  There is a cool one.  Also, although I'm aware of
the warmth in the shadows of some RC papers, there is more capacity in the
toner to cool the midtones.

Paul
http://www.PaulRoark.com

Thanks for the reply Paul.  Comments in paragraphs below.

> MIS claims that the Permajet RC paper is bronzing-free.  Perhaps 
that is
> just a relative judgment, however.  They are sending my some for 
testing.
> 

The best paper is the Permajet HiGlossy, with the Oyster a close 
second. I don;t have any Ilford Galerie paper to try at the moment, 
will source some tomorrow.

> >Oh and by the way I do like these UT inks, my only criticism is 
that
> >they are too warm.  Even the NC1 curve is 'brown' when placed next 
to
> >a black only print.
> 
> Is the warmth just in the shadow tones or throughout the print?

Throught the print.  It is quite apparent when I printed out a step 
wedge chart which went down to 1% in the 0-10% and 90-100% areas and 
5% for the rest.

> >I am using NCA in the driver so how do I adjust the tone on the 
print
> >without using the sliders in the driver?
> 

> Use a different curve.  There is a cool one.  

I have used the cool curve and found that it is a bit blue, is there 
anyway to get an in-between?  I know that when the PCM was enabled ie 
non-NCA you could move one of the sliders to add or reduce the 
relevant ink which biased the tone.  I presume the only way to do 
this is adjust the basic curve is PS?

>Also, although I'm aware of
> the warmth in the shadows of some RC papers, there is more capacity 
in the
> toner to cool the midtones.
>

It is applicable across both Matte and Glossy papers as I printed out 
the test charts on a variety of different papers and then compared 
them next to each other and to a profile colour images which had a 
dead neutral black and white image in the centre.
 
I have not seen any Piezo images so cannot see how the UT inks 
compare to the neutrality of Piezo.  Which as an aside if I buy the 
Piezo software (5.1.0) can I use the UT inks with it because I know 
someone who is selling their unused copy?

Thanks

Gareth

Gareth,



>The best paper is the Permajet HiGlossy, with the Oyster a close
>second. I don;t have any Ilford Galerie paper to try at the moment,
>will source some tomorrow.

>> Is the warmth just in the shadow tones or throughout the print?

>Throught the print.  ...

>> >... how do I adjust the tone on the print
>> >without using the sliders in the driver?

>> Use a different curve.  There is a cool one.

>I have used the cool curve and found that it is a bit blue, is there
>anyway to get an in-between?

Tweaking one of the curves so that the points are between the N and C curves
would be the best way.

>I know that when the PCM was enabled ie
>non-NCA you could move one of the sliders to add or reduce the
>relevant ink which biased the tone.  I presume the only way to do
>this is adjust the basic curve is PS?

Yes.  I originally enabled the sliders, but have since decided that the
cross-platform character of curves with the "No Color Adjustment" is more
important, in part because the sliders seemed to unduly affect the ramp on
hextone printers.

>... if I buy the Piezo software (5.1.0) can I use the UT inks with it ...

No.  The MIS FS inks are compatible.  I don't think MIS is going to support
the Piezo driver any more.  I think they'll have a version of the Bowhaus
driver that will be the better way to go.

Paul
http://www.PaulRoark.com

> -----Original Message-----
> From: garethlock4472 [mailto:g.loc@...]
> Sent: Wednesday, August 13, 2003 3:55 PM
> To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Bronzing on Pure Black with UT on Glossy
>
>
(snip)
>
> > Use a different curve.  There is a cool one.
>
> I have used the cool curve and found that it is a bit blue, is there
> anyway to get an in-between?  I know that when the PCM was enabled ie
> non-NCA you could move one of the sliders to add or reduce the
> relevant ink which biased the tone.  I presume the only way to do
> this is adjust the basic curve is PS?
>
Gareth,

When using RGB separation curves to control print hue with a toner ink you
can use multiple curves. In 8-bit mode simply add a curve adjustment layer
with the cool or cold curve and a second adjustment layer with the warmer
curve. By adjusting the opacity of the layers you can blend the effect of
the curves and hit a hue that is somewhere in between

Martin Wesley
http://www.borderless-photos.de/guests.html

Thanks, I will have another play.  Hadn't thought of creating 
adjustment layers with the curves.

Gareth

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Martin Wesley" 
<mwesley250@e...> wrote:
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: garethlock4472 [mailto:g.loc@o...]
> > Sent: Wednesday, August 13, 2003 3:55 PM
> > To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Bronzing on Pure Black with UT on Glossy
> >
> >
> (snip)
> >
> > > Use a different curve.  There is a cool one.
> >
> > I have used the cool curve and found that it is a bit blue, is 
there
> > anyway to get an in-between?  I know that when the PCM was 
enabled ie
> > non-NCA you could move one of the sliders to add or reduce the
> > relevant ink which biased the tone.  I presume the only way to do
> > this is adjust the basic curve is PS?
> >
> Gareth,
> 
> When using RGB separation curves to control print hue with a toner 
ink you
> can use multiple curves. In 8-bit mode simply add a curve 
adjustment layer
> with the cool or cold curve and a second adjustment layer with the 
warmer
> curve. By adjusting the opacity of the layers you can blend the 
effect of

> the curves and hit a hue that is somewhere in between
> 
> Martin Wesley
> http://www.borderless-photos.de/guests.html

Martin,
I also use the MIS UT inks(on an epson 1200, & PS7), following Mr 
Roarks curves. But when you apply the curve, you get this funky 
colored image on your monitor. I realise that is not how it prints, 
but by using the technique you mention, with these colors, how do you 
know what your looking at? I>E how do you gage the effect of the 
tweek! 

KeithR
--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Martin Wesley" 
<mwesley250@e...> wrote:
> 
> When using RGB separation curves to control print hue with a toner 
ink you
> can use multiple curves. In 8-bit mode simply add a curve 
adjustment layer
> with the cool or cold curve and a second adjustment layer with the 
warmer
> curve. By adjusting the opacity of the layers you can blend the 
effect of

> the curves and hit a hue that is somewhere in between
> 
> Martin Wesley
> http://www.borderless-photos.de/guests.html