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custom tinting questions

custom tinting questions

2003-08-21 by D. Hill

Hello all,

I'm striving for simplicity in my printing, so I do
not wish to have an ink that is toned, nor do I wish
to have color casts or need the variable mix
capability.  What I am looking for is a true quadtone
ink that is comprised of percentages of black without
additional pigments or dyes.  So I have 2 questions:

1. Are the color positions in the Full Spectrum warm
inks derived from the black ink?  Otherwise put, are
the inks created by a mixture of the Black ink with
the clear epson stock without additional pigments?

2. Is anyone creating their own quadtone inks by
diluting the MIS inks with the epson clear stock?  I
had used Eboni for about a day until it clogged my
1160 dry.  BUT - the one print that worked before the
clog has a beautiful tone, and I find its color much
more appealing than that of the FS original black.  

As I have replaced that printer - I hear the siren
song of Eboni calling me once more, and am interested
in using it as a quadtone base, with the cmy positions
diluted from eboni.  Call me sentimental, but I'll
most likely be using the piezo driver with this
inkset.

Any suggestions would be of great help,

Don  

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RE: [Digital BW] custom tinting questions

2003-08-21 by Paul Roark

Don,

>I'm striving for simplicity in my printing, ...
> I do not wish to have an ink that is toned ...
>...

Mixing your own inkset is not what I'd call simplicity.  It's fun if you are
into that type of thing, but a read-made one is much simpler.

Also, if you want the smoothest highlights, you'll also end up having to
write your own adjustment curves.  If you want the old Piezo driver to print
it, the ink densities must be carefully matched to what that driver was
designed for.

I agree that having the fewest colors in an inkset might be an advantage.
The carbon fades less than the color pigments.  (Eboni will yellow a bit,
however.  This is actually an increase in the yellow channel reading, not a
fading process, at least initially.)

What I'm interested in is a neutral ink that has the least amount of color
pigment in it.  I understand the desire for no color pigments at all, but I
just don't like the warm (but not sepia) tone for my photos.  For old photo
reproductions it's fine, but I like neutral landscapes.  Also, for true
sepia, one needs color pigments to get there.  The pure carbon ink is not
warm enough.

By the way, FS-K is toned with dyes, it appears.  So, FS-K is not what I'd
hold out as some ultimate ink.

>1. Are the color positions in the Full Spectrum warm
>inks derived from the black ink? ...

FS is a mix of FS-K and clear base -- no color added.  But, as noted above,
it has dyes in it to start with.  It fades to a tone that is similar to the
MIS 7600 blacks/UT grays.  No carbon ink except the new high-load inks like
Eboni can make a black that dense or that neutral without being pumped up
with dye.  This dye burns off, leaving a much warmer carbon base.

>2. Is anyone creating their own quadtone inks by
>diluting the MIS inks with the epson clear stock?

Where can you get an appropriate Epson clear base?

MIS sells a clear base that is appropriate for mixing the older quads.  It
also looks to be appropriate for the Eboni-based inks I'm now experimenting
with.

The MIS 7600 (& Ultra Tone) inks require a special base that MIS has but
does not sell, I believe.

> I had used Eboni for about a day until it clogged my 1160 dry.

The only problem I know of with Eboni is that it can react with dyes.  Of
course, there were dyes in the older black pigments.  Also, dyes on the pad
seem to cause minor but annoying clogging (so rinse the pad off with
Windex).

>  BUT - the one print that worked before the
>clog has a beautiful tone, and I find its color much
>more appealing than that of the FS original black.

It's a better ink in terms of dmax and longevity.

I'm experimenting with Eboni as a base black due to it's better (more
neutral) tone relative to the other carbon base inks that are readily
available to me (MIS's 7600 light K and Photo K).  If Eboni is mixed
straight, with no pigments, it is still warm -- about 0.07 units warm.  This
is not as warm as the 7600 blacks, but warmer than the FS inkset.  Still,
since the Eboni is relatively neutral, I'll have to add the least amount of
cyan and magenta pigs to it to get to a truly neutral base inkset.  I'll
probably publish the dilutions for an FS/Piezo type inkset based on this and
use the base ink for a vm-s upgrade.  (The vm-s inkset is a favorite of mine
due to the neutral and true sepia tones it can reach.)

I don't know if MIS is interested in supporting the old Piezo driver any
more.  However, I sense there is demand for a cheap, state-of-the-art,
Piezo-compatible, "selenium-toned" neutral ink.

>... Call me sentimental, but I'll
>most likely be using the piezo driver with this inkset.

The Piezo driver is one target of the Eboni-Selenium I'm making.  I'll test
it on my 1160 with the old Piezo driver.  Of course, it will also work with
Photoshop curves doing the partitioning.

I have a fade test to do before I'll know which of the color pigments to use
to make the inkset neutral.  So, it'll take a few weeks for this.

Paul
http://www.PaulRoark.com

Re: [Digital BW] custom tinting questions

2003-08-21 by B. Alex Pettit Jr.

My thoughts have been received !
Thanks,
Alex
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> I sense there is demand for a cheap, state-of-the-art,
> Piezo-compatible, "selenium-toned" neutral ink.
> 
> The Piezo driver is one target of the Eboni-Selenium I'm making.
>I'll test it on my 1160 with the old Piezo driver. 
> Paul

RE: [Digital BW] custom tinting questions

2003-08-23 by D. Hill

Paul,

Many thanks for your response.  I have considered (and
used extensively) the ready made inksets but most are
much too warm for my images - and it sounds like just
diluting eboni is not the answer.  As I currently use
the Selenium Tone Piezo's with enough success - the
Eboni-Selenium sounds very promising.

Don 


--- Paul Roark <paul.roark@...> wrote:

> I don't know if MIS is interested in supporting the
> old Piezo driver any
> more.  However, I sense there is demand for a cheap,
> state-of-the-art,
> Piezo-compatible, "selenium-toned" neutral ink.
> 
> >... Call me sentimental, but I'll
> >most likely be using the piezo driver with this
> inkset.
> 
> The Piezo driver is one target of the Eboni-Selenium
> I'm making.  I'll test
> it on my 1160 with the old Piezo driver.  Of course,
> it will also work with
> Photoshop curves doing the partitioning.
> 
> I have a fade test to do before I'll know which of
> the color pigments to use
> to make the inkset neutral.  So, it'll take a few
> weeks for this.
> 
> Paul
> http://www.PaulRoark.com
> 
> 
> 


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converting to UT VM

2003-08-25 by D. Hill

Paul,

Would you forsee any difficulties in switching from PT
inks w/ Museum Black to the Ultratone Variable Mix? 
As the printer is perfect right now - I really don't
want it to clog.

Thanks,
Don

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RE: [Digital BW] converting to UT VM

2003-08-25 by Paul Roark

Don,


>Would you forsee any difficulties in switching from PT
>inks w/ Museum Black to the Ultratone Variable Mix?
...

I see no problems in such a switch.  In fact, the Museum black is
essentially the same as Eboni.

Paul
http://www.PaulRoark.com

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