Digital BW, The Print

Hi all,

I just received a (small) Septone sample from Inkjetgoodies.

With it came the following information:
	- Printed on Epson Stylus Photo 2200
	- With Septone inks
	- With Photoshop plug-in
	- On Entrada Fine Art 190

My first impressions:
	- Very neutral (matte) black and greys
	- Very smooth result
	- No metamerism

The letter claims that Septone is "truly dotless".
Unfortunately because of the textured surface of the paper this is almost impossible to judge.
The solid density looks good but I cannot measure it because the black area in the sample print is too small.

I would love to see a Septone print on Epson Archival Matte, prefferably with a grey-wedge on it!

Anyone who has more results?

Best regards,

Jo Brunenberg
www.jobrunenberg.com

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jo Brunenberg [mailto:jo.brunenberg@...]
> Sent: Monday, August 25, 2003 10:09 AM
> To: digitalblackandwhitetheprint@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Digital BW] Septone Sample First impression
>
>
>
> Hi all,
>
> I just received a (small) Septone sample from Inkjetgoodies.
>
(snip)
>
> The letter claims that Septone is "truly dotless".
> Unfortunately because of the textured surface of the paper this
> is almost impossible to judge.
> The solid density looks good but I cannot measure it because the
> black area in the sample print is too small.
>
> I would love to see a Septone print on Epson Archival Matte,
> prefferably with a grey-wedge on it!
>
> Anyone who has more results?

Jo,

They sent me and Clayton a series of wedges and sample prints at different
warm/cool ratios on EEM and one on PhotoRag. All are dot less as far as I
can tell with my naked eye and a loupe.

On EEM my X-Rite 811 densitometer measures 1.66 DMax and on the PhotoRag I
get 1.76 DMax.

Martin Wesley
http://www.borderless-photos.de/guests.html

Hello Martin,

Thanks!
Do you consider Septone as a serious alternative for the QuadTone solutions?
Will there be a 4 or 6 colour Piezography BW solution for the 2200?

Best,

Jo Brunenberg

 DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com,Internet writes:

>
>Jo,
>
>They sent me and Clayton a series of wedges and sample prints at different
>warm/cool ratios on EEM and one on PhotoRag. All are dot less as far as I
>can tell with my naked eye and a loupe.
>
>On EEM my X-Rite 811 densitometer measures 1.66 DMax and on the PhotoRag I
>get 1.76 DMax.
>
>Martin Wesley
>[ http://www.borderless-photos.de/guests.html ]http://www.borderless-photos.de/guests.html

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jo Brunenberg [mailto:jo.brunenberg@...]
> Sent: Monday, August 25, 2003 11:38 PM
> To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Septone Sample First impression
>
> Thanks!
> Do you consider Septone as a serious alternative for the QuadTone
> solutions?

I think it is a different solution. Ultimately QuadTone is open and who
knows what Roy and others will make it do. At the moment (assuming they did
indeed ship this week) only the Septone system allows you to vary hue
independently in three tonal ranges. So if you want to do that they are the
only method at present.

> Will there be a 4 or 6 colour Piezography BW solution for the 2200?

As I understand it the next version of Piezography BW will be a whole new
animal based on ICC profiles for different printer/ink/paper combinations. I
am not sure where this is at except that it is way behind the forecasted
schedule. I don't believe it will provide any means to vary print hue.

Martin Wesley
http://www.borderless-photos.de/guests.html

It is amazing to me that after several years of vigorous research 
into black and white inkjet printing by many of the contributors to 
this list, Cone's quad system is still the standard to beat (or at 
least meet).  I got the Septone sample and found it unconvincing.  
I'm also discouraged by the pricing.  The carts are twice the 
Epson cost plus the software seems excessively priced.  

I too am anxiously awaiting Cone's ICC based system for the 
2200.  I appreciate his recent posting because it suggests that 
he is taking the time to do it right (archivally anyway).  I really want 
to see a Cone b/w system that is not plagued with clogs. 

Until then, I am using OPM with often satisfying results, IP RIP 
with very good, but not superior, results, and Gray Balancer with 
typically disappointing color shifts.

Frank

http://www.culturalvisions.com

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Martin 
Wesley" <mwesley250@e...> wrote:
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Jo Brunenberg [mailto:jo.brunenberg@r...]
> > Sent: Monday, August 25, 2003 11:38 PM
> > To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Septone Sample First impression
> >
> > Thanks!
> > Do you consider Septone as a serious alternative for the 
QuadTone
> > solutions?
> 
> I think it is a different solution. Ultimately QuadTone is open 
and who
> knows what Roy and others will make it do. At the moment 
(assuming they did
> indeed ship this week) only the Septone system allows you to 
vary hue
> independently in three tonal ranges. So if you want to do that 
they are the
> only method at present.
> 
> > Will there be a 4 or 6 colour Piezography BW solution for the 
2200?
> 
> As I understand it the next version of Piezography BW will be a 
whole new
> animal based on ICC profiles for different printer/ink/paper 
combinations. I
> am not sure where this is at except that it is way behind the 
forecasted
> schedule. I don't believe it will provide any means to vary print 
hue.

> 
> Martin Wesley
> http://www.borderless-photos.de/guests.html

> only the Septone system allows you to vary hue
> independently in three tonal ranges. So if you want to do that they
> are the only method at present

Please explain why QuadtoneRIP or OPM/IJC cannot do this with the
creation of an appropriate profile ?

Thanks, John