Digital BW, The Print

I just purchased an Olympus E20  5 meg and want to do b&w printing 
using a quad system.  I have a Epson 1200 that i can use.  I have 
read in the piezo forum that quad printing cant be done properly with 
a 5 meg camera...is this true or can someone tell me what the best 
system and inks are.  Any experiences with digital and quad printing 
would be most helpful

Thanks

Rick

I'm using a Nikon D100 6MP camera and using the MIS VM inks on my 1280
and it works just fine.  I can't imagine what the MP value would have to
do with it.

Thanks,
Ed
http://lightandsilver.com 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: morganbaily2000 [mailto:rickz1@...] 
> Sent: Thursday, August 28, 2003 7:32 PM
> To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Digital BW] digital cameras and qaud printing
> 
> 
> I just purchased an Olympus E20  5 meg and want to do b&w printing 
> using a quad system.  I have a Epson 1200 that i can use.  I have 
> read in the piezo forum that quad printing cant be done properly with 
> a 5 meg camera...is this true or can someone tell me what the best 
> system and inks are.  Any experiences with digital and quad printing 
> would be most helpful
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Rick 
> 
> 
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-I cant either except in reading posting in the piezo group forum 
there is lots of discussion that thye couldnt get good prints from 
digital unless u went to more than 10 mp.  Maybe they just dont know


-- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Ed Mathews" 
<ed@l...> wrote:
> I'm using a Nikon D100 6MP camera and using the MIS VM inks on my 
1280
> and it works just fine.  I can't imagine what the MP value would 
have to
> do with it.
> 
> Thanks,
> Ed
> http://lightandsilver.com 
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: morganbaily2000 [mailto:rickz1@a...] 
> > Sent: Thursday, August 28, 2003 7:32 PM
> > To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: [Digital BW] digital cameras and qaud printing
> > 
> > 
> > I just purchased an Olympus E20  5 meg and want to do b&w 
printing 
> > using a quad system.  I have a Epson 1200 that i can use.  I have 
> > read in the piezo forum that quad printing cant be done properly 
with 
> > a 5 meg camera...is this true or can someone tell me what the 
best 
> > system and inks are.  Any experiences with digital and quad 
printing 
> > would be most helpful
> > 
> > Thanks
> > 
> > Rick 
> > 
> > 
> > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor 
> > ---------------------~-->
> > Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for Your HP, Epson, Canon or 
Lexmark
> > Printer at Myinks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the 
> > US & Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511
> > http://us.click.yahoo.com/l.m7sD/LIdGAA/qnsNAA/ucIolB/TM
> > --------------------------------------------------------------
> > -------~->
> > 
> > Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, 
> > Bookmarks, Polls and other resources as they are often being 
> > updated. The page is at:
> > 
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> 
> If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you 
wish to
> unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting 
this
> same page.
> 
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> - Include your full name with your message.
> - Include the address of your website, if you have one.
> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages 
to
> keep them short.
> - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject
> header.
> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or 
flames
> - Complete your Yahoo profile.
> - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the 
various

> resources on the homepage. 
> 
> 
>  
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

don't know what they were smoking, but there is no reason you can't 
get good quadtones from *any* digital camera, it's just a matter of 
how large you can make your prints.  2MP will give you a great 
quadtone 5.25x7" print, 5MP will give you a great larger prints.  
That said, you do need more resolution for a good b&w print than you 
do for a color print... color carries you a long way... where as in 
b&w you need the detail... but you certainly don't need any more 
detail than the printer can actually print.

here are some b&w photos I've printed with great success using the 
MIS VM set in an 1160:

http://www.geocities.com/markhahn2000/paw2003/paw2003_index.html

mark

--- In 
DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "morganbaily2000" 
<rickz1@a...> wrote:
> I just purchased an Olympus E20  5 meg and want to do b&w printing 
> using a quad system.  I have a Epson 1200 that i can use.  I have 
> read in the piezo forum that quad printing cant be done properly 
with 
> a 5 meg camera...is this true or can someone tell me what the best 
> system and inks are.  Any experiences with digital and quad 
printing 

> would be most helpful
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Rick

I would like to hear more on this subject.  I currently scan both 
35mm and MF B&W negs and print with quadtones on a 1280 and I am 
satisfied with the quality. I would like to go totally digital.   
Because of my investment in Nikon lenses, I have been considering a 
D100.  Can I get good 8x10 digital B&W prints by substituting the 
scanned neg with a raw file from a D100 in my workflow?

Mark's images look good on the Web, but will prints from a digital 
camera file get "close" to what is produced from scanned negatives?

Thanks...Val


--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Mark Hahn" 
<markhahn2000@y...> wrote:
> don't know what they were smoking, but there is no reason you 
can't 
> get good quadtones from *any* digital camera, it's just a matter 
of 
> how large you can make your prints.

Val,

I recently purchased a Canon 10d and print via 1280 -
I prefer the quality over scanned negatives, as I only
print as large as 8x12.

Get a test raw file from a D100 and see how you like
the quality.  It is much better than I imained.

Don


--- Val Brunell <vbrunell1@...> wrote:
> I would like to hear more on this subject.  I
> currently scan both 
> 35mm and MF B&W negs and print with quadtones on a
> 1280 and I am 
> satisfied with the quality. I would like to go
> totally digital.   
> Because of my investment in Nikon lenses, I have
> been considering a 
> D100.  Can I get good 8x10 digital B&W prints by
> substituting the 
> scanned neg with a raw file from a D100 in my
> workflow?
> 
>

__________________________________
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Of Course !!

I have an Olympus E-10 4.3 MP digital camera and have made
excellent quality BWs up to 12x16.

As a reference, I am now scanning 645 format Tmax100 at
2000 dpi = filesize 21 MB and print them to 16x20.

Depending on the subject, the E-10 output can print to
16x20, but usually, 12x16  is the max.

Best,
Alex


--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Val Brunell" 
<vbrunell1@c...> wrote:

> I would like to hear more on this subject.  I currently scan both 
> 35mm and MF B&W negs and print with quadtones on a 1280 and I am 
> satisfied with the quality. I would like to go totally digital.   
> Because of my investment in Nikon lenses, I have been considering a 
> D100.  Can I get good 8x10 digital B&W prints by substituting the 
> scanned neg with a raw file from a D100 in my workflow?
> 
> Mark's images look good on the Web, but will prints from a digital 
> camera file get "close" to what is produced from scanned negatives?
> 
> Thanks...Val
> 
>

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Val Brunell [mailto:vbrunell1@...] 
<snip>
> Can I get good 8x10 digital B&W prints by substituting the 
> scanned neg with a raw file from a D100 in my workflow?

I use a D100, and print with a 1280, and I've printed BO and hextones
using MIS VM.  Yes, you can get good 8"x10" prints and larger, even if
shooting in jpg mode.  I'm not sure I'd say it's necessarily better than
medium format, but it will definitely compare well to 35mm scans, and
some do feel it compares to medium format.  Buy a D100 or S2 Pro and you
will be amazed at the results.  Keep in mind it's not film, so there's
no grain and the subtleties of tone are different than that of film, but
you have so much control of the image and it's so much more convenient
you'll probably be hooked like many others before you.  I shoot mostly
people, and I feel there's no compromise for me at all using the D100.

Thanks,
Ed
http://lightandsilver.com

On 31/8/03 7:55 am, "Val Brunel"
<DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

> Can I get good 8x10 digital B&W prints by substituting the
> scanned neg with a raw file from a D100 in my workflow?

I use a D100 and have output B&W work for publication at European A4
(210x297mm) with no problems - I have also printed Super A3 images
(13x19inch) with excellent results. I use an Epson 1200 with VTBlax inks
(Permajet) same as MIS I believe.

I have to admit that my best B&W digital prints have been from scanned 6x6cm
work from a vintage Mamiya TLR using Ilford SFX film!

--
Regards
David Prakel

Centre of Britain PhotoWorkshops Partnership
www.photopartners.co.uk

On 31/8/03 7:55 am, "Don Hill"
<DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

> Get a test raw file from a D100 and see how you like
> the quality.  It is much better than I imained.

I have to say that quality from the D100 raw files improved markedly when I
began using Nikon Capture 3.5 to produce the colour originals which I have
then converted to B&W in various ways (HSL, Channel mixer but best of all
Photo Kit by Pixel Genius). Capture gives you far greater control over the
raw - 16bit conversion than the simple plug-in supplied with the camera but
at extra cost.

--
Regards
David Prakel

Centre of Britain PhotoWorkshops Partnership
www.photopartners.co.uk

Hi

I use an Olympus E20 for most of my event photography, and have on occasions
been asked to do B/W prints. I find that I can usually get good 8x10s, but
larger prints do depend on the subject and use of the print.

Wide angle landscape work seems to show up the lack of detail the most. The
picture of Old John in the 'converting colour to B/W' section of my web site
<http://northlight-images.co.uk/bwfromcol.html> was done with an E20 and
makes quite a good 8x10 print. A friend asked me to do him an 13"x19" print,
which took quite a lot of work to get to an acceptable (to me) quality. The
other picture on that page is of a friend in a late night fast food outlet,
and produced a huge B/W print with no problem at all.

At the moment, I still prefer scanned film for my B/W landscape work, but
when a reasonably priced* 20Mpixel** SLR with a good wide angle lens (~24mm
equiv) is around, I'm sure that my film SLRs will move to backup duty,
although I suspect that this hypothetical 20M beast will not be anywhere as
robust, light or durable as my old OM2/24mm :-))

I do my B/W prints from either source on an 1160 with Lyson SG inks


bye for now   

Keith Cooper

Northlight Images
http://northlight-images.co.uk
Photography - Digital Imaging - Apple Mac Consultancy
Tel +44 (0)116 291 9092 Mobile +44 (0)780 162 9397

* A sum that varies with the amount of paid work I've got ;-)) - probably
$2-4k

** 20M -- very arbitrary figure based on the amount of data from a good 35mm
scan -- not intended to rekindle the film vs digital debate, which to my
mind is very much Apples vs Oranges (I like both, I like eating fruit!)

Hello Keith,

I fully concur with your observation on a digital cam with highly 
detailed landscapes. With my Olympus E-10, I started
to avoid scenes with prominent grasses, reeds, whatever, because
I knew I was going to get some nasty starcase results when printing
to 12x16. That bit of photo-anguish has been relieved with this
Mamiya 645 format camera. When the digital imagers get above
16 MP, they will for all practical purposes have attained MF status 
(IMO anyway).


Best
Alex

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Keith Cooper 
<yahoogroups@n...> wrote:
> Hi
> 
> I use an Olympus E20 for most of my event photography
> 
> Wide angle landscape work seems to show up the lack of detail the 
most. 

> 
> Keith Cooper
>