Digital BW, The Print

Hello,
I've recently recieved my VM Quadtones. I'm printing with a 1280 and 
for the time being using EEM. 

I went to MIS's "workflow" page and got the curves and read through 
the process. I first tried to print an image I've been working on. I 
found most of the shadows as well as any light to dark transitions 
were posterized. So I figured I would go back and start with the 100 
step wedge. I couldn't get a decent looking wedge, I kept getting 
flat spots usually between 60-80 and a little more around 45. So I 
decided to change some things around. 

Instead of converting to sRGB I went to AdobeRGB('89). I was almost 
there, so I changed the paper type in the driver to Matte-
Heavyweight. Now it's looking very nice. I tried printing with the 
transfer function a couple times. I noticed flat spots around 25, 45 
and 65 both times. 

Tomorrow I will start trying images out to see if these settings 
still hold true. I also got sample packages of Legion, Arches and 
Hahnemuhle that I'm eager to try out.

A couple questions:
1. How subtle is the cool curve? All curves besides the cool give the 
intended results. I didn't think I would like the warm tones, but 
just from the wedge, the medium-warm looks very nice.

2. The process states converting to grayscale, editing, then 
converting back to RGB. My question is, what's the difference between 
converting to grayscale and back; and just leaving it in RGB the 
whole time using adjustment layers/plugins for b&w effect?

I would greatly appreciate any advice or thoughts. As I still have a 
lot to learn, though it doesn't seem as overwhelming as it did 2 days 
ago ;)
Thanks again.

matt betea

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Matt Betea [mailto:mbetea@...] 
<snip> 
> I went to MIS's "workflow" page and got the curves and read through 
> the process. I first tried to print an image I've been working on. I 
> found most of the shadows as well as any light to dark transitions 
> were posterized.
<snip>

     I had the same problem with my original 1280.  So I posted here and
Paul responded that some other people have reported the same, and found
the Tyler curves to work better for them.  And then Paul e-mailed me the
Tyler curves and they worked much better and completely cured all the
posturization.
     But my printer had a continuous problem with a clogged jet in the
black head, and I ended up having Epson replace it.  Epson sent me
another, which was DOA.  Then they sent me a third 1280 which is fine.
Now in using this one for the first time with the VM quad inks, I find
that Paul's curves work extremely well with it, and the Tyler curves
give awful results.  I have not changed my computer or software in any
other way at all, so the difference is only the particular 1280 attached
to the printer cable.
     This proves to me not all 1280s are created equal, and you may find
you get much better results with another set of curves.  I have the
Tyler curves and will send them to you if you want to try them out.  Let
me know.

Thanks,
Ed
http://lightandsilver.com

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Ed Mathews" 
<ed@l...> wrote:
> > -----Original Message-----
> This proves to me not all 1280s are created equal, and you may find
> you get much better results with another set of curves.  I have the
> Tyler curves and will send them to you if you want to try them 
out.  Let
> me know.
> 
> Thanks,
> Ed
> http://lightandsilver.com

Interesting find Ed, it's too bad you had to go through all that 
though. But yes, I would appreciate it if you could email me the 
curves. You can use the email in the header, that's my main one. I 
tried Paul's from MIS's site, the ones I'm currently working with. I 
also tried the cool tone curve from the version 13 curves just to see 
if it would give me a more cool tone. Thanks a bunch, I really 
appreciate it.

matt betea

Hi all,
I'm getting great results with Roarks 4 curves and workflow from the MIS
site on EEM with my 1200 Epson and MIS QVM inks. Does anyone have other
workflows and curves I can try out for this setup?
I'd especially like more of a watercolor surface  paper to test with. I have
an old box of lumijet Classic Velour I'd like to burn through if there are
any profiles around for that.
Thanks.

Sue

Sue Tallon Photography
www.tallonphoto.com

Let me know how these work for you.

Ed

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Matt Betea [mailto:mbetea@...] 
> Sent: Friday, August 29, 2003 4:39 PM
> To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [Digital BW] New to VM Quadtones, some thoughts 
> and questions.
> 
> 
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Ed Mathews" 
> <ed@l...> wrote:
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > This proves to me not all 1280s are created equal, and you may find
> > you get much better results with another set of curves.  I have the
> > Tyler curves and will send them to you if you want to try them 
> out.  Let
> > me know.
> > 
> > Thanks,
> > Ed
> > http://lightandsilver.com
> 
> Interesting find Ed, it's too bad you had to go through all that 
> though. But yes, I would appreciate it if you could email me the 
> curves. You can use the email in the header, that's my main one. I 
> tried Paul's from MIS's site, the ones I'm currently working with. I 
> also tried the cool tone curve from the version 13 curves just to see 
> if it would give me a more cool tone. Thanks a bunch, I really 
> appreciate it.
> 
> matt betea
> 
> 
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> 
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Sorry, sent it to the list by mistake.  My bad.

Ed

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ed Mathews [mailto:ed@...] 
> Sent: Friday, August 29, 2003 5:15 PM
> To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: RE: [Digital BW] New to VM Quadtones, some thoughts 
> and questions.
> 
> 
> Let me know how these work for you.
> 
> Ed
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Matt Betea [mailto:mbetea@...] 
> > Sent: Friday, August 29, 2003 4:39 PM
> > To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: Re: [Digital BW] New to VM Quadtones, some thoughts 
> > and questions.
> > 
> > 
> > --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Ed Mathews" 
> > <ed@l...> wrote:
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > This proves to me not all 1280s are created equal, and 
> you may find
> > > you get much better results with another set of curves.  
> I have the
> > > Tyler curves and will send them to you if you want to try them 
> > out.  Let
> > > me know.
> > > 
> > > Thanks,
> > > Ed
> > > http://lightandsilver.com
> > 
> > Interesting find Ed, it's too bad you had to go through all that 
> > though. But yes, I would appreciate it if you could email me the 
> > curves. You can use the email in the header, that's my main one. I 
> > tried Paul's from MIS's site, the ones I'm currently 
> working with. I 
> > also tried the cool tone curve from the version 13 curves 
> just to see 
> > if it would give me a more cool tone. Thanks a bunch, I really 
> > appreciate it.
> > 
> > matt betea
> > 
> > 
> > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor 
> > ---------------------~-->
> > Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for Your HP, Epson, Canon 
> or Lexmark
> > Printer at Myinks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the 
> > US & Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511
> > http://us.click.yahoo.com/l.m7sD/LIdGAA/qnsNAA/ucIolB/TM
> > --------------------------------------------------------------
> > -------~->
> > 
> > Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, 
> > Bookmarks, Polls and other resources as they are often being 
> > updated. The page is at:
> > 
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> 
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> keep them short.
> - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject
> header.
> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames
> - Complete your Yahoo profile.
> - Before posting a question, search the message archives and 
> the various
> resources on the homepage. 
> 
> 
>  
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> 
> 
> ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor 
> ---------------------~-->
> Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for Your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark
> Printer at Myinks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the 
> US & Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511
> http://us.click.yahoo.com/l.m7sD/LIdGAA/qnsNAA/ucIolB/TM
> --------------------------------------------------------------
> -------~->
> 
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, 
> Bookmarks, Polls and other resources as they are often being 
> updated. The page is at:
> 
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unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this
same page.

Please follow these basic guidelines:
- Include your full name with your message.
- Include the address of your website, if you have one.
- As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to
keep them short.
- As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject
header.
- Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames
- Complete your Yahoo profile.
- Before posting a question, search the message archives and the various
resources on the homepage. 


 

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
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I found something similar when I first got my 1280 converted to MIS VM inks.
I tried the PR 1280 curves and had results that sound like yours.  Terrible
transitions - looked dreadful.  Then I tried the Tyler curves which were
almost perfect except for a very slight but annoying transition in the
middle of the scale when a totally smooth curve was printed.  THEN I tried
the PR 1290 curves and have never looked back.

  -----Original Message-----
  From: Ed Mathews [mailto:ed@...]
  Sent: Friday, August 29, 2003 4:50 AM
  To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
  Subject: RE: [Digital BW] New to VM Quadtones, some thoughts and
questions.


  > -----Original Message-----
  > From: Matt Betea [mailto:mbetea@...]
  <snip>
  > I went to MIS's "workflow" page and got the curves and read through
  > the process. I first tried to print an image I've been working on. I
  > found most of the shadows as well as any light to dark transitions
  > were posterized.
  <snip>

       I had the same problem with my original 1280.  So I posted here and
  Paul responded that some other people have reported the same, and found
  the Tyler curves to work better for them.  And then Paul e-mailed me the
  Tyler curves and they worked much better and completely cured all the
  posturization.
       But my printer had a continuous problem with a clogged jet in the
  black head, and I ended up having Epson replace it.  Epson sent me
  another, which was DOA.  Then they sent me a third 1280 which is fine.
  Now in using this one for the first time with the VM quad inks, I find
  that Paul's curves work extremely well with it, and the Tyler curves
  give awful results.  I have not changed my computer or software in any
  other way at all, so the difference is only the particular 1280 attached
  to the printer cable.
       This proves to me not all 1280s are created equal, and you may find
  you get much better results with another set of curves.  I have the
  Tyler curves and will send them to you if you want to try them out.  Let
  me know.

  Thanks,
  Ed
  http://lightandsilver.com


        Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
              ADVERTISEMENT




  Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and
other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:

  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint

  If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to
unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same
page.

  Please follow these basic guidelines:
  - Include your full name with your message.
  - Include the address of your website, if you have one.
  - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep
them short.
  - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject header.
  - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames
  - Complete your Yahoo profile.
  - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the various
resources on the homepage.




  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Thanks for the help guys. I tried the Tyler curves and the 1290 
curves with the wedge. Tyler curves gave flat spots around 45-60 and 
again around 80. The tones looked ok, but I guess my idea of what the 
tone the cool curve should give wasn't right. The 1290 curves looked 
good as far as the transitions go. But every curve seemed like a 
medium-warm. So far the 1280 has given the best results all around. 
That might change as I haven't gotten into papers other than EEM. So 
for now I'll stick with the 1280 and try to mess with the cool tone 
to get a cooler image. Appreciate the help guys. Thanks again.

matt betea
--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Matthew 
Carlisle" <matthewcarlisle@c...> wrote:
> I found something similar when I first got my 1280 converted to MIS 
VM inks.
> I tried the PR 1280 curves and had results that sound like yours.  
Terrible
> transitions - looked dreadful.  Then I tried the Tyler curves which 
were
> almost perfect except for a very slight but annoying transition in 
the
> middle of the scale when a totally smooth curve was printed.  THEN 
I tried
> the PR 1290 curves and have never looked back.