Digital BW, The Print

OK, now for something entirely different.

I have been printing (on the 1280) and controlling a variable-tone inkset
from a grayscale file -- in Word!

It's time to break Photoshop's monopoly.

Well, the reality is that the driver sliders can control this dual-toner
inkset over a range from quite warm to selenium/neutral and cooler.
However, with Photoshop curves the inkset goes all the way to sepia.  So, it
can be something a novice can print without having to buy PS, or we can use
different curves to do a broader range, split-tones, and whatever profiling.

I think this approach could be big.

Paul
http://www.PaulRoark.com

This sounds really interesting!

Wonder if it would work on a 2100? I had a look at your ink mixtures and
I have all the inks available, except you mention a MIS UT sepia toner
for the Y position. Where did that one come from? I can't recall seeing
a sepia toner in the UT inkset. Is it possible to mix from the MIS 7600
color inks?

--
Daniel Staver
http://daniel.staver.no 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Paul Roark [mailto:paul.roark@...] 
> Sent: 2. september 2003 05:32
> To: DigitalB&WPrint
> Subject: [Digital BW] Latest variable-tone inkset
> 
> 
> OK, now for something entirely different.
> 
> I have been printing (on the 1280) and controlling a 
> variable-tone inkset from a grayscale file -- in Word!
> 
> It's time to break Photoshop's monopoly.
> 
> Well, the reality is that the driver sliders can control this 
> dual-toner inkset over a range from quite warm to 
> selenium/neutral and cooler. However, with Photoshop curves 
> the inkset goes all the way to sepia.  So, it can be 
> something a novice can print without having to buy PS, or we 
> can use different curves to do a broader range, split-tones, 
> and whatever profiling.
> 
> I think this approach could be big.
> 
> Paul
> http://www.PaulRoark.com

Paul, 
you kind of lost me on this one! Which driver sliders are you refering to? The Epson 
print driver? You say it's time to break Photoshop monopoly, but then you go on to 
say using curves is the way to go. 
How would this approach work in a 3000 or a 2200 with the  UT inks?

I have been  doing very well with the Quadtone RIP and a 2200. I  have a 3000 with 
FSN inks and I am looking for a way to improve that, any suggestions?

Barry

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Roark" 
<paul.roark@v...> wrote:

> OK, now for something entirely different.
> 
> I have been printing (on the 1280) and controlling a variable-tone inkset
> from a grayscale file -- in Word!
> 
> It's time to break Photoshop's monopoly.
> 
> Well, the reality is that the driver sliders can control this dual-toner
> inkset over a range from quite warm to selenium/neutral and cooler.
> However, with Photoshop curves the inkset goes all the way to sepia.  So, it
> can be something a novice can print without having to buy PS, or we can use
> different curves to do a broader range, split-tones, and whatever profiling.
> 
> I think this approach could be big.
> 
> Paul
> http://www.PaulRoark.com

Daniel,

>This sounds really interesting!

>Wonder if it would work on a 2100?

I think once the 1280 version is finished and working as well as it can, the
2100/2200 would be the next logical step.

> I had a look at your ink mixtures and
>I have all the inks available, except you mention a MIS UT sepia toner
>for the Y position. Where did that one come from? I can't recall seeing
>a sepia toner in the UT inkset. Is it possible to mix from the MIS 7600
>color inks?

The previous mix I published is not the one that can do this.  It's
basically a dual-toner setup, but the percentages have changed -- and will
change a little more.

I'm not sure MIS sells the clear base you'll need to mix where I'm at now.
I suspect MIS will be very interested in this one and produce it for us.

Paul
http://www.PaulRoark.com

_______________________________________

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Paul Roark [mailto:paul.roark@...]
> Sent: 2. september 2003 05:32
> To: DigitalB&WPrint
> Subject: [Digital BW] Latest variable-tone inkset
>
>
> OK, now for something entirely different.
>
> I have been printing (on the 1280) and controlling a
> variable-tone inkset from a grayscale file -- in Word!
>
> It's time to break Photoshop's monopoly.
>
> Well, the reality is that the driver sliders can control this
> dual-toner inkset over a range from quite warm to
> selenium/neutral and cooler. However, with Photoshop curves
> the inkset goes all the way to sepia.  So, it can be
> something a novice can print without having to buy PS, or we
> can use different curves to do a broader range, split-tones,
> and whatever profiling.
>
> I think this approach could be big.
>
> Paul
> http://www.PaulRoark.com




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Barry,

>you kind of lost me on this one!
>Which driver sliders are you refering to? The Epson
>print driver?

Yes, the Epson printer driver sliders do a good job for medium-range
adjustments.  One of the goals here is to open up B&W to people who don't
have Photoshop and don't want to spend the $ it takes to get onto the PS
train.  Also, I suspect many doing layouts in other applications might like
to have a B&W inkset available that they can use.  Even Word could be used
for a rather archival layout and B&W printing job.

> You say it's time to break Photoshop monopoly, but then you go on to
>say using curves is the way to go.

The curves allow more radical and varied control.  For example, I'm
measuring an occasional 0.01 wiggle in the tone that the sliders can't
correct.  I don't think these are significant enough for most to care about,
but with the PS curves they could be dealt with.

>How would this approach work in a 3000

This approach is only for modern hextones (and maybe the 2200/2100).

> or a 2200 with the  UT inks?

I don't have a 2200, so I'm not sure how it'll work.  I suspect with at most
minor changes it'll work fine.

>... I  have a 3000 with FSN inks and I am looking for
>a way to improve that, any suggestions?

I had worked up an Eboni-based, Piezo-compatible inkset that I thought would
be aimed at the older printers.  However, some tests indicate Eboni may not
be the way to go.  I'll have more on this soon.  (These new carbon pigs like
to separate.  PiezoTone selenium is having these problems also, apparently.
The complexity of the 2200 interior also hints at the issues.)

So, right now, I'm not sure there is a good replacement for FS-N.

Paul
http://www.PaulRoark.com
___________________________________

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Roark"
<paul.roark@v...> wrote:
> OK, now for something entirely different.
>
> I have been printing (on the 1280) and controlling a variable-tone inkset
> from a grayscale file -- in Word!
>
> It's time to break Photoshop's monopoly.
>
> Well, the reality is that the driver sliders can control this dual-toner
> inkset over a range from quite warm to selenium/neutral and cooler.
> However, with Photoshop curves the inkset goes all the way to sepia.  So,
it
> can be something a novice can print without having to buy PS, or we can
use
> different curves to do a broader range, split-tones, and whatever
profiling.
>
> I think this approach could be big.
>
> Paul
> http://www.PaulRoark.com



Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and
other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:

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- Include your full name with your message.
- Include the address of your website, if you have one.
- As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep
them short.
- As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject header.
- Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames
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----- Original Message ----- 

From: "Paul Roark" <paul.roark@...>
To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, September 02, 2003 7:21 AM
Subject: RE: [Digital BW] Re: Latest variable-tone inkset


> I had worked up an Eboni-based, Piezo-compatible inkset that I
thought would
> be aimed at the older printers.  However, some tests indicate
Eboni may not
> be the way to go.  I'll have more on this soon.  (These new
carbon pigs like
> to separate.  PiezoTone selenium is having these problems also,
apparently.
> The complexity of the 2200 interior also hints at the issues.)
>
> So, right now, I'm not sure there is a good replacement for
FS-N.
>
> Paul
> http://www.PaulRoark.com

Paul,

not so long ago I have seen a message that indicated the
9600/7600 heads are "heated". I can't find that message anymore
but I wonder if this is related to what you are writing and the
problems that I have with Eboni Black in 9000s.

Ernst

Cool, Paul! Or warm, or anything in between :-)

Part of why I've not taken the plunge into quad/hex tone B&W (I'm 
doing black only ala Clayton Jones for now, I do color too - MIS 
original archival ink) is the observation that the variable tone 
inksets (VM and VMS from MIS) require only 4 inks - seemingly 3 
blacks plus toner - to go either cool>neutral or neutral>warm/sepia. 
Reasonably then, one could go all the way cool>sepia with 3 blacks 
plus 2 toners, even leaving an extra black (well, gray) position in a 
6 color printer. 

I asked MIS about it and they said "it's coming." Is this to what 
they refer? Which inks are you using for it?

Peace,
Sanaka



--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Roark" 
<paul.roark@v...> wrote:
> OK, now for something entirely different.
> 
> I have been printing (on the 1280) and controlling a variable-tone 
inkset
> from a grayscale file -- in Word!
> 
> It's time to break Photoshop's monopoly.
> 
> Well, the reality is that the driver sliders can control this dual-
toner
> inkset over a range from quite warm to selenium/neutral and cooler.
> However, with Photoshop curves the inkset goes all the way to 
sepia.  So, it
> can be something a novice can print without having to buy PS, or we 
can use
> different curves to do a broader range, split-tones, and whatever 
profiling.

> 
> I think this approach could be big.
> 
> Paul
> http://www.PaulRoark.com

Personally I think word is the wrong choice (it too is expensive - and  
aimed at the office worker). Perhaps Photoshop Elements or another of  
the lesser graphic programs.

On Monday, September 1, 2003, at 11:32  PM, Paul Roark wrote:

> OK, now for something entirely different.
>
> I have been printing (on the 1280) and controlling a variable-tone  
> inkset
> from a grayscale file -- in Word!
>
> It's time to break Photoshop's monopoly.
>
> Well, the reality is that the driver sliders can control this  
> dual-toner
> inkset over a range from quite warm to selenium/neutral and cooler.
> However, with Photoshop curves the inkset goes all the way to sepia.   
> So, it
> can be something a novice can print without having to buy PS, or we  
> can use
> different curves to do a broader range, split-tones, and whatever  
> profiling.
>
> I think this approach could be big.
>
> Paul
> http://www.PaulRoark.com
>
>
>
> ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor  
> ---------------------~-->
> Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for Your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark
> Printer at Myinks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US &  
> Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511
> http://us.click.yahoo.com/l.m7sD/LIdGAA/qnsNAA/ucIolB/TM
> --------------------------------------------------------------------- 
> ~->
>
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls  
> and other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
>
> If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish  
> to unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting  
> this same page.
>
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> - Include your full name with your message.
> - Include the address of your website, if you have one.
> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to  
> keep them short.
> - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject  
> header.
> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames
> - Complete your Yahoo profile.
> - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the  
> various resources on the homepage.
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to  
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
Regards,

Loring Palleske
Creative Imaging
416.301.1711

----- Original Message ----- 

From: "Loring Palleske" <lorpal@...>
To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, September 02, 2003 1:21 PM
Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Latest variable-tone inkset


> Personally I think word is the wrong choice (it too is
expensive - and
> aimed at the office worker). Perhaps Photoshop Elements or
another of
> the lesser graphic programs.

Qimage is better than PS on print facilities and has PS identical
curve control or it can use ICC profiles based on Paul's curves.

Picture Window Pro is throughout 48/16 bit + ICC compatible and
faster in editing photographs than PS.

No restriction to 24/8 bit or the limited colourmanagement that
Elements has.

Both are at a fraction of the cost of PS.

Ernst

Ernst,

>not so long ago I have seen a message that indicated the
>9600/7600 heads are "heated". I can't find that message anymore
>but I wonder if this is related to what you are writing and the
>problems that I have with Eboni Black in 9000s.

Actually, I've had no problems with my 7500 and Eboni.

The potential separation issue I'd raised is in some test tubes where Eboni
is diluted with standard MIS base.  Whether there is any base available base
that can reliably hold Eboni in suspension is an open question.  Alex found
consistent and obvious precipitation.  So far my tests are inconclusive
(after less then 24 hours, however -- too soon).  If the separation is not
consistent, there may be other factors.

(There are accelerated separation testing procedures that MIS uses that may
be proprietary.  With it's reputation at stake, MIS does not just mix and
sell what I come up with.  There are a number of tests MIS runs before
sticking its neck out.)

At any rate, when I publish an experimental ink formula, it has clearly
worked for me, but there may be open questions/problems that more testing
will reveal.

Paul
http://www.PaulRoark.com
______________________________

----- Original Message -----
From: "Paul Roark" <paul.roark@...>
To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, September 02, 2003 7:21 AM
Subject: RE: [Digital BW] Re: Latest variable-tone inkset


> I had worked up an Eboni-based, Piezo-compatible inkset that I
thought would
> be aimed at the older printers.  However, some tests indicate
Eboni may not
> be the way to go.  I'll have more on this soon.  (These new
carbon pigs like
> to separate.  PiezoTone selenium is having these problems also,
apparently.
> The complexity of the 2200 interior also hints at the issues.)
>
> So, right now, I'm not sure there is a good replacement for
FS-N.

>
> Paul
> http://www.PaulRoark.com

Sanaka,

>Cool, Paul! Or warm, or anything in between :-)

>... the variable tone
>inksets (VM and VMS from MIS) require only 4 inks - seemingly 3
>blacks plus toner - to go either cool>neutral or neutral>warm/sepia.
>Reasonably then, one could go all the way cool>sepia with 3 blacks
>plus 2 toners, ...

Exactly.  The old hextone VMs are just extensions of the quad VM inksets.  I
now have a 1280 as the base machine.  So, the options are wider.

>I asked MIS about it and they said "it's coming." Is this to what
>they refer? Which inks are you using for it?

Actually, they have been looking a an affordable RIP solution.  So, in that
respect, what I'm doing may not be all that well received -- as it's free
competition.  However, what I'm doing allows page-layout and other programs
to do direct printing.  I'm not sure if the MIS RIP solution can do this.

Paul
http://www.PaulRoark.com
________________________________________


--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Roark"
<paul.roark@v...> wrote:
> OK, now for something entirely different.
>
> I have been printing (on the 1280) and controlling a variable-tone
inkset
> from a grayscale file -- in Word!
>
> It's time to break Photoshop's monopoly.
>
> Well, the reality is that the driver sliders can control this dual-
toner
> inkset over a range from quite warm to selenium/neutral and cooler.
> However, with Photoshop curves the inkset goes all the way to
sepia.  So, it
> can be something a novice can print without having to buy PS, or we
can use
> different curves to do a broader range, split-tones, and whatever
profiling.
>
> I think this approach could be big.
>
> Paul
> http://www.PaulRoark.com



Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and
other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:

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- Include the address of your website, if you have one.
- As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep
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- As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject header.
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- Complete your Yahoo profile.
- Before posting a question, search the message archives and the various
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Loring,


>I think word is the wrong choice (it too is expensive - and
>aimed at the office worker). Perhaps Photoshop Elements or another of
>the lesser graphic programs.

I just used that as an example.  The controls are totally within the Epson
driver.  So, any application should work.  Page-layout and other image
editors that don't support Photoshop curves is the real target.

Paul
http://www.PaulRoark.com
________________________________________



On Monday, September 1, 2003, at 11:32  PM, Paul Roark wrote:

> OK, now for something entirely different.
>
> I have been printing (on the 1280) and controlling a variable-tone
> inkset
> from a grayscale file -- in Word!
>
> It's time to break Photoshop's monopoly.
>
> Well, the reality is that the driver sliders can control this
> dual-toner
> inkset over a range from quite warm to selenium/neutral and cooler.
> However, with Photoshop curves the inkset goes all the way to sepia.
> So, it
> can be something a novice can print without having to buy PS, or we
> can use
> different curves to do a broader range, split-tones, and whatever
> profiling.
>
> I think this approach could be big.
>
> Paul
> http://www.PaulRoark.com
>
>
>
> ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> ---------------------~-->
> Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for Your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark
> Printer at Myinks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US &
> Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511
> http://us.click.yahoo.com/l.m7sD/LIdGAA/qnsNAA/ucIolB/TM
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> ~->
>
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls
> and other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
>
> If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish
> to unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting
> this same page.
>
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> - Include your full name with your message.
> - Include the address of your website, if you have one.
> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to
> keep them short.
> - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject
> header.
> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames
> - Complete your Yahoo profile.
> - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the
> various resources on the homepage.
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
Regards,

Loring Palleske
Creative Imaging
416.301.1711



Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and
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- As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep
them short.
- As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject header.
- Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames
- Complete your Yahoo profile.
- Before posting a question, search the message archives and the various
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