Digital BW, The Print

I use Imageprint with a PC and a 2200 Epson printer. I print B&W and 
color up to 13x19 and 44 inche long panoramics from an X Pan camera. 
Imageprint is an amazing tool. I get good prints 99 % of the time in 
color with some cast with difficult transparancies. I also get great 
prints from B&W. I scan with an Imacon 343 and the file is set up 
with the Imacon as to film choice and Imageprint does the rest. 
Basically what I see on the screen is what I get on the print. You 
have to profile Imageprint for the type of paper used and also 
viewing conditions, Tungston, daylight etc. With B&W I just let   
Imageprint do its thing and the prints are really amazing. The 
Enhances Matte seems to make a better B&W print then Luster paper. I 
hope that this is a help. Steve

Hello Mitch. In answer to your reply, Imageprint demands that you 
store files in RGB. It is true that you choose which grey profile to 
use but I have noticed especially with the luster paper that there 
can be a color cast to the prints. I dont notice this with the 
enhanced matte paper. I spoke to people involved and they said that 
there can be a problem with printing B&W with Imageprint because of 
the fact that the images are stored using rgb. Im not saying that 
this will happen all the time but it can be an influence. Some papers 
are better then others. As for installing Imageprint, you really have 
to know what you are doing. If you make one mistake it will not work. 
Most people are not that experienced with installing software and it 
can be a problem. I would not make light of this issue because I had 
a so called expert insatll Imageprint with my 2200 printer and I 
would have never been able to do this myself. Even with the expert 
doing the instalation there were problems that had to be corrected. I 
am sure that an experienced person will have no trouble but most 
people will need halp. Thanks for the reply Steve

I have to take exception.  I use Imageprint on my 9600.  I scan and store all B&W impages in Grayscale, not RGB.  Imageprint works great with these.  If you store them as RGB and try to print using a color profile you will get coloring in you B&W. Maybe it's different on a 2200.
 
Tom Baker

deandadin <deandadin@...> wrote:
Hello Mitch. In answer to your reply, Imageprint demands that you 
store files in RGB. It is true that you choose which grey profile to 
use but I have noticed especially with the luster paper that there 
can be a color cast to the prints. I dont notice this with the 
enhanced matte paper. I spoke to people involved and they said that 
there can be a problem with printing B&W with Imageprint because of 
the fact that the images are stored using rgb. Im not saying that 
this will happen all the time but it can be an influence. Some papers 
are better then others. As for installing Imageprint, you really have 
to know what you are doing. If you make one mistake it will not work. 
Most people are not that experienced with installing software and it 
can be a problem. I would not make light of this issue because I had 
a so called expert insatll Imageprint with my 2200 printer and I 
would have never been able to do this myself. Even with the expert 
doing the instalation there were problems that had to be corrected. I 
am sure that an experienced person will have no trouble but most 
people will need halp. Thanks for the reply Steve


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

There is section of gray profiles for 2200/2100 on ColorBytes ftp 
site - it means you may use grayscale images directly to print with 
2200/2100.

example from Thomas Forses mails:

>Epson printers/2200MK_v5.5/Gray Profiles/
>
>   new:     ep2200mkb_grayBCEclSatW1440.icm

Martin



At 22:19 -0700 23.9.2003, Tom Baker wrote:
*******************************************

>I have to take exception.  I use Imageprint on my 9600.  I scan and 
>store all B&W impages in Grayscale, not RGB.  Imageprint works great 
>with these.  If you store them as RGB and try to print using a color 
>profile you will get coloring in you B&W. Maybe it's different on a 
>2200.
> 
>Tom Baker

--

This is not the case. ImagePrint does not "demand" that you store 
files in RGB. I send 16 bit greyscale files to ImagePrint for B&W 
printing - no color casts this way.

With regard to the "difficult" install, I'm in the habit of 
rebuilding my PC every 3 months or so and have to reinstall 
ImagePrint every time. I've never had a problem.


--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "deandadin" 
<deandadin@a...> wrote:
> Hello Mitch. In answer to your reply, Imageprint demands that you 
> store files in RGB. It is true that you choose which grey profile 
to 
> use but I have noticed especially with the luster paper that there 
> can be a color cast to the prints. I dont notice this with the 
> enhanced matte paper. I spoke to people involved and they said 
that 
> there can be a problem with printing B&W with Imageprint because 
of 
> the fact that the images are stored using rgb. Im not saying that 
> this will happen all the time but it can be an influence. Some 
papers 
> are better then others. As for installing Imageprint, you really 
have 
> to know what you are doing. If you make one mistake it will not 
work. 
> Most people are not that experienced with installing software and 
it 
> can be a problem. I would not make light of this issue because I 
had 
> a so called expert insatll Imageprint with my 2200 printer and I 
> would have never been able to do this myself. Even with the expert 
> doing the instalation there were problems that had to be 
corrected. I 
> am sure that an experienced person will have no trouble but most 
> people will need halp. Thanks for the reply Steve

Hi....I am far from a software expert. My best software trick is to 
restart the computer. I ordered ImagePrint from Lexjet and got a 
$100.00 discount by ordering a set of 2200 inks at the same time. I 
dealt with a woman named Amy who was extremely helpful and 
knowledgable about ImagePrint and inkjet printing in general. Lexjet 
has great customer service and tech help. I was told to take the 
installation very slowly and not change the order of the steps at 
all. This is not my usual method (I'm a put the disc in and keep 
hitting OK until I can play kind of installer). But Amy was adamant 
on the issue, so I did. (It IS a slightly paranoid group at 
Colorbyte.)

It installed fine and, after a one day shakedown I have gotten 
wonderful prints. The B&W prints are lovely and neutral. The tint-
picker is a joy to use. Now in my workflow I convert to B&W using 
Inkjet Goodies free action for Photoshop. It does a great job and, 
did I mention, it's free at www.inkjetgoodies.com . This set of 
actions converts the file to greyscale and I print using the grey 
profile foe EEM. I don't believe that the file is ever converted 
back to RGB. With this method I get wonderful neutral prints, 
especially portraits.

I don't know the proper terminology, but I printed a B&W portrait to 
the best of my ability using the Epson driver and got a beautiful 
99% neutral print. Took the same file and ran it through ImagePrint 
and got it 100% neutral (to my 57 yr. old eyes); but the real change 
was that the ImagePrint print was subtly *clearer*. I know that's an 
indefinable quality but there was a clarity to the middle tones that 
made the whole purchase worthwhile.

And the color prints have been bang-on from the git-go. So there's 
one more ImagePrint story.

Jim Weekes

Steve:

> Hello Mitch. In answer to your reply, Imageprint demands that you
> store files in RGB. It is true that you choose which grey profile to
> use but I have noticed especially with the luster paper that there
> can be a color cast to the prints. I dont notice this with the
> enhanced matte paper. I spoke to people involved and they said that
> there can be a problem with printing B&W with Imageprint because of
> the fact that the images are stored using rgb.

I don't have a clue what you're talking about. Have you actually 
printed B&W with ImagePrint? I do it all the time; and let me assure 
you that you store the files in grayscale, not RGB. Have a look at my 
Notes on ImagePrint Setup for Beginnners:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ImagePrint/files/

Also, there is no difference in this whether you're printing on the 
2200/2100 or the 9600/7600. FOR B&W PRINT USING IP GRAYSCALE PROFILES 
YOU USE GGAYSCALE FILES, NOT RGB FILES. (Sorry for "shoutiing.")

>  As for installing Imageprint, you really have
> to know what you are doing. If you make one mistake it will not work.
> Most people are not that experienced with installing software and it
> can be a problem. I would not make light of this issue because I had
> a so called expert insatll Imageprint with my 2200 printer and I
> would have never been able to do this myself. Even with the expert
> doing the instalation there were problems that had to be corrected. I
> am sure that an experienced person will have no trouble but most
> people will need halp.

I simply don't agree with you that IP is difficult to install. The 
process is explained well and simply in the IP QuickStart Manual.

--Mitch/Paris

Hello MItch, I just want to clarify my message re. printing B&W with 
Imageprint. I am using a 2200 printer with the regular Epson inks on 
a PC. I print both B&W and color a lot. When I store a B&W file from 
Photoshop I have to store the file as RGB. If I dont do this when I 
open a file in Imageprint it separates the image into 3 images and 
tries to create separations of the image.Therefor Imageprint does 
demand an RGB file. I was surprised that this happend but when I save 
the image in RGB from Photoshop I have no problem. I dont know if you 
are using a 2200 printer but this is the way I have to store images 
from Photoshop. So Im not crazy and this is what my system damands. I 
was told by people that know a lot more them I do that this could, I 
repeat could create problems with color casts when printing B&W. I 
heve found that when I use the luster paper I have some minor 
problems but when I use the enhanced matte paper they are really 
great. Usually when I print on the enhanced matt paper the prints are 
exeptional but still not comparable to a good silver print. I own a 
B&W lab and I specialize in B&W printing and I know the difference.  
I do profile imageprint to a grey setting with whichever paper I am 
using, Believe me i know what I am doing. If you think that I am 
wrong please tell me how I can not store my files in RGB from 
Photoshop and not get the 3 separations I get when I try to store my 
B&W images from Photoshop in greyscale. If you doubt me please call 
Larry Carny at Samys  pro digital dept. in Los Angeles and he will be 
glad to confirm my tale of woe. Also I would like to say that people 
that have not had the experience of instaling software may have a 
problem instaling Imageprint. It is not as easy as you make it out to 
be. People with a lot of experience prob. wont have a problem but 
there are quite a few people that will have trouble. When it comes to 
color thats another story. I can do 50 prints and they will all be 
spot on color the first time. In closing I want to make it clear that 
Imageprint is an amazing tool and I would go crazy trying to print 
without it. Regards Steve

I convert ALL my B&W images to greyscale prior to archiving and 
printing. I have never had a problem with ImagePrint 5.5.
using Mac OS 10.2.1.








--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "deandadin" 
<deandadin@a...> wrote:
> Hello MItch, I just want to clarify my message re. printing B&W 
with 
> Imageprint. I am using a 2200 printer with the regular Epson inks 
on 
> a PC. I print both B&W and color a lot. When I store a B&W file 
from 
> Photoshop I have to store the file as RGB. If I dont do this when I 
> open a file in Imageprint it separates the image into 3 images and 
> tries to create separations of the image.Therefor Imageprint does 
> demand an RGB file. I was surprised that this happend but when I 
save 
> the image in RGB from Photoshop I have no problem. I dont know if 
you 
> are using a 2200 printer but this is the way I have to store images 
> from Photoshop. So Im not crazy and this is what my system damands. 
I 
> was told by people that know a lot more them I do that this could, 
I 
> repeat could create problems with color casts when printing B&W. I 
> heve found that when I use the luster paper I have some minor 
> problems but when I use the enhanced matte paper they are really 
> great. Usually when I print on the enhanced matt paper the prints 
are 
> exeptional but still not comparable to a good silver print. I own a 
> B&W lab and I specialize in B&W printing and I know the 
difference.  
> I do profile imageprint to a grey setting with whichever paper I am 
> using, Believe me i know what I am doing. If you think that I am 
> wrong please tell me how I can not store my files in RGB from 
> Photoshop and not get the 3 separations I get when I try to store 
my 
> B&W images from Photoshop in greyscale. If you doubt me please call 
> Larry Carny at Samys  pro digital dept. in Los Angeles and he will 
be 
> glad to confirm my tale of woe. Also I would like to say that 
people 
> that have not had the experience of instaling software may have a 
> problem instaling Imageprint. It is not as easy as you make it out 
to 
> be. People with a lot of experience prob. wont have a problem but 
> there are quite a few people that will have trouble. When it comes 
to 
> color thats another story. I can do 50 prints and they will all be 
> spot on color the first time. In closing I want to make it clear 
that 
> Imageprint is an amazing tool and I would go crazy trying to print 
> without it. Regards Steve

Steve  -
 
From what you describe, I would double check your settings in the Bitmap tab of the color management window on Imageprint.  I have seen the symptoms you describe when these settings to not match the rest of the work flow.
 
In spite of what Mr. Carny suggests, none of the rest of the respondents to this line of email seem to be having this problem.  Grayscale files print perfectly on Imageprint when the settings are correct.  (All of this assumes that you are not talking about Duotone files in PS.  That's a different story.)  
 
Also, you might try contacting Imageprint.  I know they're not good about answering the phone, but they usually respond to emails.
 
There IS a solution to your problem.  

deandadin <deandadin@...> wrote:
Hello MItch, I just want to clarify my message re. printing B&W with 
Imageprint. I am using a 2200 printer with the regular Epson inks on 
a PC. I print both B&W and color a lot. When I store a B&W file from 
Photoshop I have to store the file as RGB. If I dont do this when I 
open a file in Imageprint it separates the image into 3 images and 
tries to create separations of the image.Therefor Imageprint does 
demand an RGB file. I was surprised that this happend but when I save 
the image in RGB from Photoshop I have no problem. I dont know if you 
are using a 2200 printer but this is the way I have to store images 
from Photoshop. So Im not crazy and this is what my system damands. I 
was told by people that know a lot more them I do that this could, I 
repeat could create problems with color casts when printing B&W. I 
heve found that when I use the luster paper I have some minor 
problems but when I use the enhanced matte paper they are really 
great. Usually when I print on the enhanced matt paper the prints are 
exeptional but still not comparable to a good silver print. I own a 
B&W lab and I specialize in B&W printing and I know the difference.  
I do profile imageprint to a grey setting with whichever paper I am 
using, Believe me i know what I am doing. If you think that I am 
wrong please tell me how I can not store my files in RGB from 
Photoshop and not get the 3 separations I get when I try to store my 
B&W images from Photoshop in greyscale. If you doubt me please call 
Larry Carny at Samys  pro digital dept. in Los Angeles and he will be 
glad to confirm my tale of woe. Also I would like to say that people 
that have not had the experience of instaling software may have a 
problem instaling Imageprint. It is not as easy as you make it out to 
be. People with a lot of experience prob. wont have a problem but 
there are quite a few people that will have trouble. When it comes to 
color thats another story. I can do 50 prints and they will all be 
spot on color the first time. In closing I want to make it clear that 
Imageprint is an amazing tool and I would go crazy trying to print 
without it. Regards Steve


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Please follow these basic guidelines:
- Include your full name with your message.
- Include the address of your website, if you have one.
- As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep them short.
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

For: (very bad mood) Bob Frost:

> I agree that ImagePrint 5.6 is easy to install. My problem is that it 
> simply
> doesn't work properly after it is installed! ....
> But after two days of trying to get it to print a B&W grayscale image, 
> I
> have one print that is a complete reversal - i.e. a negative

That sounds like a mismatch between the inkset type and profile type.


>  - and I've had
> to reboot the computer more times than I used to with Win 3.1 in 
> several
> years. With Win XP Pro I had almost forgotten what rebooting was - 
> until I
> ran this program. It is mindboggling that they haven't yet got round
> (version 5.6!!) to combining the different bits that are installed 
> into one
> program that works. Why should I have to run a separate program 
> IpInstall to
> install a printer, IpManage to change this, and SpoolFace to try and 
> get rid
> of the files that it won't print.

Can't help you with that. All I can say is that it's very simple to 
switch between the the installation modules (IP Install and IP Manage) 
and between the two operational modules (ImagePrint and SpoolFace).


> Despite reading the full manual, your
> instructions, and some other instructions, and trying installing the 
> printer
> to a specific port, or piggy-backing it off the existing Epson driver, 
> it
> still doesn't work. It usually says it can't get the machine 
> identification.

It sounds like you're doing something systematically wrong in 
installing the program. The best guide to this is the QuickStart 
manual, which I presume that you've read although you don't mention it. 
It has step-by-step instructions that are fool-proof unless you try to 
use a different printer name rather than just selecting from the menu. 
If you are following the QuickStart instruction you shouldn't have to 
worry about specific printer ports or piggy-backing off the Epson 
driver. You might do a search on the IP Yahoo Group 
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ImagePrint/messages/) where I remember 
someone having a similar problem -- and it turned out he was doing 
something very wrong and not following the installation instructions.

--Mitch/Paris