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Re: [Digital BW] Re: Lenses reviews

Re: [Digital BW] Re: Lenses reviews

2003-10-03 by Jack M Kucy

Is the vignetting close to 40mm only, or all along the focal lenghts?
Thanks,
Jack

_________________________________________________
Jack M Kucy
JMK Gallery (www.jmk-gallery.com)
917-991-2096     jmk@...
Member of ASMP (www.asmp.org)
_________________________________________________
...a riveder le stelle


Duncan Staples wrote:

> Jack:
>
> You don't want the 17-40/L with the 1DS as you will get some
> vignetting on the outer edges of the sensor.  You will need to get
> the 16-35/L.
>
> Duncan
>
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Jack M Kucy
> <jmk@j...> wrote:
> > Hi Group,
> > sorry for the trivial question, but I seem to loose an info about
> the
> > site where
> > I could find comprehensive lenses reviews.  After 25 years of
> belonging
> > to the
> > Nikon camp I am about to jump ship and buy the 1Ds.  I need to
> chose the
> > lenses to go with it.  Oh, one in the beginning.  I am considering
> > 16-35/2.8 and
> > 17-40/4.0  (the latter being cheaper and supposedly[?] sharper).
> >
> > I would appreciate direction to the site with the reviews.
> > Thanks,
> > Jack
> >
>

--

[Digital BW] Re: Lenses reviews

2003-10-03 by Duncan Staples

40-47mm range.  The 16-35/L is a much better choice for a 1DS than 
the 17-40/L.  The 1DS will accentuate the weaknesses of the lens.  

Duncan

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Jack M Kucy 
<jmk@j...> wrote:
> Is the vignetting close to 40mm only, or all along the focal 
lenghts?
> Thanks,
> Jack
> 
> _________________________________________________
> Jack M Kucy
> JMK Gallery (www.jmk-gallery.com)
> 917-991-2096     jmk@j...
> Member of ASMP (www.asmp.org)
> _________________________________________________
> ...a riveder le stelle
> 
> 
> Duncan Staples wrote:
> 
> > Jack:
> >
> > You don't want the 17-40/L with the 1DS as you will get some
> > vignetting on the outer edges of the sensor.  You will need to get
> > the 16-35/L.
> >
> > Duncan
> >
> > --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Jack M Kucy
> > <jmk@j...> wrote:
> > > Hi Group,
> > > sorry for the trivial question, but I seem to loose an info 
about
> > the
> > > site where
> > > I could find comprehensive lenses reviews.  After 25 years of
> > belonging
> > > to the
> > > Nikon camp I am about to jump ship and buy the 1Ds.  I need to
> > chose the
> > > lenses to go with it.  Oh, one in the beginning.  I am 
considering
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> > > 16-35/2.8 and
> > > 17-40/4.0  (the latter being cheaper and supposedly[?] sharper).
> > >
> > > I would appreciate direction to the site with the reviews.
> > > Thanks,
> > > Jack
> > >
> >
> 
> --

[Digital BW] Re: Lenses reviews

2003-10-03 by Duncan Staples

Here is a good review:

http://luminous-landscape.com/reviews/lenses/canon-17-40.shtml

Duncan


--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Duncan Staples" 
<gdstaples@y...> wrote:
> 40-47mm range.  The 16-35/L is a much better choice for a 1DS than 
> the 17-40/L.  The 1DS will accentuate the weaknesses of the lens.  
> 
> Duncan
> 
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Jack M Kucy 
> <jmk@j...> wrote:
> > Is the vignetting close to 40mm only, or all along the focal 
> lenghts?
> > Thanks,
> > Jack
> > 
> > _________________________________________________
> > Jack M Kucy
> > JMK Gallery (www.jmk-gallery.com)
> > 917-991-2096     jmk@j...
> > Member of ASMP (www.asmp.org)
> > _________________________________________________
> > ...a riveder le stelle
> > 
> > 
> > Duncan Staples wrote:
> > 
> > > Jack:
> > >
> > > You don't want the 17-40/L with the 1DS as you will get some
> > > vignetting on the outer edges of the sensor.  You will need to 
get
> > > the 16-35/L.
> > >
> > > Duncan
> > >
> > > --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Jack M Kucy
> > > <jmk@j...> wrote:
> > > > Hi Group,
> > > > sorry for the trivial question, but I seem to loose an info 
> about
> > > the
> > > > site where
> > > > I could find comprehensive lenses reviews.  After 25 years of
> > > belonging
> > > > to the
> > > > Nikon camp I am about to jump ship and buy the 1Ds.  I need to
> > > chose the
> > > > lenses to go with it.  Oh, one in the beginning.  I am 
> considering
> > > > 16-35/2.8 and
> > > > 17-40/4.0  (the latter being cheaper and supposedly[?] 
sharper).
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> > > >
> > > > I would appreciate direction to the site with the reviews.
> > > > Thanks,
> > > > Jack
> > > >
> > >
> > 
> > --

RE: [Digital BW] Re: Lenses reviews

2003-10-03 by Austin Franklin

> Here is a good review:
>
> http://luminous-landscape.com/reviews/lenses/canon-17-40.shtml
>
> Duncan

I suggest that any information garnered from that web site be taken with a
large "grain of salt".  Quite a few of the "articles" I've seen there seem
to have a very strong agenda, and therefore they contain very biased, if
not, incorrect/very one sided, assessments/(mis)information.

Regards,

Austin

[Digital BW] Re: Lenses reviews

2003-10-03 by Duncan Staples

Austin:

I know Michael and can state without a doubt that he has no agenda 
and is not biased in any way by any of the equipment manufacturers or 
other outside factors.  Granted you are reading his opinions, but his 
opinions are experienced and educated and he will not hesitate to say 
something is a piece of crap if it is.  He will also correct himself 
if he catches an error or ommission of his or anyone else's doing.  
He will give you his honest opinions and back them up with field 
data - unlike sites like Photodo etc.  You have to decide yourself 
what emphasis to place on information coming from any publication but 
I place a high degree of respect in Michael's opinions - they tend to 
mirror what I have found when I do the same tests.

Duncan

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Austin 
Franklin" <darkroom@i...> wrote:
> > Here is a good review:
> >
> > http://luminous-landscape.com/reviews/lenses/canon-17-40.shtml
> >
> > Duncan
> 
> I suggest that any information garnered from that web site be taken 
with a
> large "grain of salt".  Quite a few of the "articles" I've seen 
there seem
> to have a very strong agenda, and therefore they contain very 
biased, if
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> not, incorrect/very one sided, assessments/(mis)information.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Austin

Re: [Digital BW] Re: Lenses reviews

2003-10-03 by Jack M Kucy

Thanks again for the directions.
I take all the articles in the luminous... web site seriously,  but as 
with everything I have to form my own
opinion.  So, do not worry.  Even though I haven't felt any tendency to 
bias in those articles,  I am not
going to rely on it blindly.  On the other hand - I love this site, and 
I strongly admire the dedication of the
creator.
Thanks,
Jack

_________________________________________________
Jack M Kucy
JMK Gallery (www.jmk-gallery.com)
917-991-2096     jmk@...
Member of ASMP (www.asmp.org)
_________________________________________________
...a riveder le stelle



Duncan Staples wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> Austin:
>
> I know Michael and can state without a doubt that he has no agenda
> and is not biased in any way by any of the equipment manufacturers or
> other outside factors.  Granted you are reading his opinions, but his
> opinions are experienced and educated and he will not hesitate to say
> something is a piece of crap if it is.  He will also correct himself
> if he catches an error or ommission of his or anyone else's doing. 
> He will give you his honest opinions and back them up with field
> data - unlike sites like Photodo etc.  You have to decide yourself
> what emphasis to place on information coming from any publication but
> I place a high degree of respect in Michael's opinions - they tend to
> mirror what I have found when I do the same tests.
>
> Duncan
>
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Austin
> Franklin" <darkroom@i...> wrote:
> > > Here is a good review:
> > >
> > > http://luminous-landscape.com/reviews/lenses/canon-17-40.shtml
> > >
> > > Duncan
> >
> > I suggest that any information garnered from that web site be taken
> with a
> > large "grain of salt".  Quite a few of the "articles" I've seen
> there seem
> > to have a very strong agenda, and therefore they contain very
> biased, if
> > not, incorrect/very one sided, assessments/(mis)information.
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Austin
>

RE: [Digital BW] Re: Lenses reviews

2003-10-03 by Paul Roark

> Here is a good review:
>
> http://luminous-landscape.com/reviews/lenses/canon-17-40.shtml
>


Well, just to another opinion, I've been testing my lenses for years with
traditional resolution charts.  While I've been a big fan of Modern
Photo/Pop Photo tests, I've always found their tests have only a vague
correlation to what I see and my experience in real world shooting.  The
Photodo tests have a very high correlation with my tests & experience.  The
subjective, verbal "tests" (Shutterbug's, for example) are worthless.

When I see actual photo comparisons of lenses from an apparently honest
source, like Luminous-Landscape, I give it more credence than the Pop Photo
MTF or Resolution tests.  I'd put it right up there with the Photodo
information.  (Moreover, while I agree that, in theory, the MTF curve is the
best way to test, I'd put many times more faith in the comparative photos
than the Canon published MTF curves.  I'm a big fan of Canon, but I think
the MTFs must be coming from their marketing department.)

Paul
http://www.PaulRoark.com

RE: [Digital BW] Re: Lenses reviews

2003-10-03 by Austin Franklin

Duncan,

> I know Michael and can state without a doubt that he has no agenda
> and is not biased in any way by any of the equipment manufacturers or
> other outside factors.

My experience has been entirely different.  My opinion of what I've read of
his, is he is very biased (and specifically towards Canon, and they can do
no wrong).  He proclaims, every time that a new Canon Digicam comes out,
that it is far better than any film camera etc. etc....and the demise of
film is at hand...when it simply was not true.  Eventually, it will be
true...but he's been proclaiming the death of film, and trying to
rationalize and justify his simply erroneous claims, for years now.

The first reviews I read of his were his touting of the D-30, and it was
completely biased...I'd say no one but a paid PR person could have written
the review I read, as it was completely at odds with just about every other
review out there as to the realistic capabilities of the camera.  IMO, his
film/digital tests were flawed, as was his understanding of how the digital
process worked.  He also wrote a highly biased (almost sycophantic, IMO)
Hasselblad V-1 review...which, when challenged, pouted and took his marbles
and went home.  That's why he writes a one sided web site, instead of
allowing himself to be challenged in public.

> Granted you are reading his opinions, but his
> opinions are experienced and educated and he will not hesitate to say
> something is a piece of crap if it is.

I have not seen that in the reviews of his I've read.

> He will also correct himself
> if he catches an error or omission of his or anyone else's doing.

My experience is that is true only if he agrees with it...

> He will give you his honest opinions and back them up with field
> data...

Yes, and when shown his data *might* be wrong, especially if it challenges
his (IMO at times erroneous) "understanding", he simply ignores it.

> You have to decide yourself
> what emphasis to place on information coming from any publication...

Of course...

> but
> I place a high degree of respect in Michael's opinions...

I am not the only one who has publicly said that he needs to be taken with a
large grain of salt...it's been said many a time, by many very
respected/knowledgeable people.

Regards,

Austin

Re: Lenses reviews

2003-10-03 by sceptre12345

Austin,
Itching for another fast and furious debate like the last one you had 
on the filmscanners list ? People got so fed up over there that some 
left the list and the list owner is even thinking of shutting it down.
Cheers,
Andre



--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Austin 
Franklin" <darkroom@i...> wrote:
> Duncan,
> 
> > I know Michael and can state without a doubt that he has no agenda
> > and is not biased in any way by any of the equipment 
manufacturers or
> > other outside factors.
> 
> My experience has been entirely different.  My opinion of what I've 
read of
> his, is he is very biased (and specifically towards Canon, and they 
can do
> no wrong).  He proclaims, every time that a new Canon Digicam comes 
out,
> that it is far better than any film camera etc. etc....and the 
demise of
> film is at hand...when it simply was not true.  Eventually, it will 
be
> true...but he's been proclaiming the death of film, and trying to
> rationalize and justify his simply erroneous claims, for years now.
> 
> The first reviews I read of his were his touting of the D-30, and 
it was
> completely biased...I'd say no one but a paid PR person could have 
written
> the review I read, as it was completely at odds with just about 
every other
> review out there as to the realistic capabilities of the camera.  
IMO, his
> film/digital tests were flawed, as was his understanding of how the 
digital
> process worked.  He also wrote a highly biased (almost sycophantic, 
IMO)
> Hasselblad V-1 review...which, when challenged, pouted and took his 
marbles
> and went home.  That's why he writes a one sided web site, instead 
of
> allowing himself to be challenged in public.
> 
> > Granted you are reading his opinions, but his
> > opinions are experienced and educated and he will not hesitate to 
say
> > something is a piece of crap if it is.
> 
> I have not seen that in the reviews of his I've read.
> 
> > He will also correct himself
> > if he catches an error or omission of his or anyone else's doing.
> 
> My experience is that is true only if he agrees with it...
> 
> > He will give you his honest opinions and back them up with field
> > data...
> 
> Yes, and when shown his data *might* be wrong, especially if it 
challenges
> his (IMO at times erroneous) "understanding", he simply ignores it.
> 
> > You have to decide yourself
> > what emphasis to place on information coming from any 
publication...
> 
> Of course...
> 
> > but
> > I place a high degree of respect in Michael's opinions...
> 
> I am not the only one who has publicly said that he needs to be 
taken with a
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> large grain of salt...it's been said many a time, by many very
> respected/knowledgeable people.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Austin

[Digital BW] Re: Lenses reviews

2003-10-03 by Duncan Staples

Austin:

No problem with me.  That is what makes the Internet a great place.  
There are plenty of other places to get information on products and 
see hands on reviews.  One should only place credibility where it is 
due.

FWIW:  I have been shooting professionally since 1989 when I 
graduated from Brooks out in Santa Barbara.  I have been shooting 
digitally since 1995 and was one of the first studios in southern 
California to go digital (Sinar Bron then Phase One).  My film/lab 
bill in 1999 was about $65,000, my film/lab bill for 2002 was 
approximately $3500 (mostly large format).  I am billing about 
$400,000 more in 2003/2004 than I was in 1999.  I can count the 
number of jobs I shoot on film in one year on two hands.  Clients 
just don't ask for a film deliverable any more.

Regards,
Duncan

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Austin 
Franklin" <darkroom@i...> wrote:
> Duncan,
> 
> > I know Michael and can state without a doubt that he has no agenda
> > and is not biased in any way by any of the equipment 
manufacturers or
> > other outside factors.
> 
> My experience has been entirely different.  My opinion of what I've 
read of
> his, is he is very biased (and specifically towards Canon, and they 
can do
> no wrong).  He proclaims, every time that a new Canon Digicam comes 
out,
> that it is far better than any film camera etc. etc....and the 
demise of
> film is at hand...when it simply was not true.  Eventually, it will 
be
> true...but he's been proclaiming the death of film, and trying to
> rationalize and justify his simply erroneous claims, for years now.
> 
> The first reviews I read of his were his touting of the D-30, and 
it was
> completely biased...I'd say no one but a paid PR person could have 
written
> the review I read, as it was completely at odds with just about 
every other
> review out there as to the realistic capabilities of the camera.  
IMO, his
> film/digital tests were flawed, as was his understanding of how the 
digital
> process worked.  He also wrote a highly biased (almost sycophantic, 
IMO)
> Hasselblad V-1 review...which, when challenged, pouted and took his 
marbles
> and went home.  That's why he writes a one sided web site, instead 
of
> allowing himself to be challenged in public.
> 
> > Granted you are reading his opinions, but his
> > opinions are experienced and educated and he will not hesitate to 
say
> > something is a piece of crap if it is.
> 
> I have not seen that in the reviews of his I've read.
> 
> > He will also correct himself
> > if he catches an error or omission of his or anyone else's doing.
> 
> My experience is that is true only if he agrees with it...
> 
> > He will give you his honest opinions and back them up with field
> > data...
> 
> Yes, and when shown his data *might* be wrong, especially if it 
challenges
> his (IMO at times erroneous) "understanding", he simply ignores it.
> 
> > You have to decide yourself
> > what emphasis to place on information coming from any 
publication...
> 
> Of course...
> 
> > but
> > I place a high degree of respect in Michael's opinions...
> 
> I am not the only one who has publicly said that he needs to be 
taken with a
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> large grain of salt...it's been said many a time, by many very
> respected/knowledgeable people.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Austin

RE: [Digital BW] Re: Lenses reviews

2003-10-03 by Austin Franklin

Andre,

> Itching for another fast and furious debate like the last one you had
> on the filmscanners list ? People got so fed up over there that some
> left the list and the list owner is even thinking of shutting it down.

Not looking for a debate at all, nor do I wish to participate in one.
People can form their own opinions...all I did was suggest they take that
web site with a grain of salt...

And, though I participated in the discussion (8 bit vs 16 bit tonal moves
with color image files), I certainly didn't have much to do with "people
getting fed up and the list owner thinking of shutting it down".  I hadn't
posted to it for days (as I was on the road), when the bulk of the
"discussion" transpired.  Needless to say, the discussion was mostly
technical, and had little "personal" content, which is how this should be in
this type of newsgroup...and a LOT of people actually learned a lot from
it...at least from the responses I saw on-list, and off.  There are certain
subjects that, for some reason, some people are adversely effected by, as it
rocks their (sometimes mis-) understanding of how things work.  Apparently,
that discussion was one of them, and UV filters can be on other lists.  Do
keep in mind, no one was able to rise up to the challenge that I posed,
which should say a lot about the reality of what was being debated ;-)

Regards,

Austin

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