Digital BW, The Print

Hello, I am one of those who bought an Epson 2100 (as the 2200 is 
called in Europe) for it's supposed high quality B/W output. This 
might be the case when matte paper is used, but with Ilford Smooth 
Pearl Paper, I get terrible metamerism (my prints get a different 
color cast depending on the light source being daylight, fluorescent 
light, ...) effects (even worse with Epson's or Ilford's Glossy 
Papers)

Before investing more money into it, could somebody tell me
1) If the Septone ink system eliminates the problem of metamerism 
with NON-matte papers such as Ilford Smooth Pearl or Smooth Gloss.
2) Is the Septone ink system compatible with the 2100 (I suppose 
that this is the same as asking if 2200 cartridges are compatible 
with 2100 cartridges)

Your answers are greatly appreciated...

* -----Original Message-----
* From: boywithbubblegun [mailto:piet.van.den.eynde@...] 
* Sent: Wednesday, October 15, 2003 9:35 AM
* To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
* Subject: [Digital BW] Some questions about the Septone Ink system
* 
* 
* Hello, I am one of those who bought an Epson 2100 (as the 2200 is 
* called in Europe) for it's supposed high quality B/W output. This 
* might be the case when matte paper is used, but with Ilford Smooth 
* Pearl Paper, I get terrible metamerism (my prints get a different 
* color cast depending on the light source being daylight, fluorescent 
* light, ...) effects (even worse with Epson's or Ilford's Glossy 
* Papers)
* 
* Before investing more money into it, could somebody tell me
* 1) If the Septone ink system eliminates the problem of metamerism 
* with NON-matte papers such as Ilford Smooth Pearl or Smooth Gloss.

The Septone inks are carbon pigment inks. With very few exceptions these
types of ink are not meant for and do not work well on RC papers. They are
designed for matte papers. Some people like the look of carbon pigment inks
on glossy and smooth RC papers but there are problems. With some of the
inks, including Septone, it has been reported that they do not adhere well
to the RC surfaces. You might be able to overcome this with fixative sprays
but that adds another step to the process. The other issue is bronzing
caused by the matte ink sitting on top of the glossy surface.

Better results on glossy papers have been reported with MIS UltraTone inks
and you might want to ask about those. I have tried Piezo, MIS VM and
Piezotones on glossy paper myself and did not like the results at all.

If you want glossy and semi-gloss prints I think you will do much better
sticking with the OEM inks and purchasing one of the RIPs that are designed
to give improved B&W output.

* 2) Is the Septone ink system compatible with the 2100 (I suppose 
* that this is the same as asking if 2200 cartridges are compatible 
* with 2100 cartridges)

On their website, http://www.bwguys.com/software.aspx, they say about
Septone:

"....an AdobeR PhotoshopR export plug-in that runs under the WindowsR and
MacintoshR operating systems and drives the EpsonR Stylus PHOTO 2100/2200
with Sundance Septone inks."

As for the 2200 cartridges fitting a 2100 I can't say but I would be very
surprised if they did not. Check with Epson.

Martin Wesley
http://www.carolyn.cc/Guests/MartinWesley/pages/MW_01.html
http://www.borderless-photos.de/guests.html

If you really want to stay with glossy or luster surface (RC-type) papers, then I would recommend the standard UC Epson inks and a RIP. I've recently been evaluating ImagePrint; although only on matte papers. If you decide to pursue the RIP route, an IP eval is available for Mac or PC on Calumet Photographic's website.

Hope this helps.

Alan Huntley

> 
> From: "boywithbubblegun" <piet.van.den.eynde@...>
> Date: 2003/10/15 Wed PM 12:34:44 EDT
> To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Digital BW] Some questions about the Septone Ink system
> 
> Hello, I am one of those who bought an Epson 2100 (as the 2200 is 
> called in Europe) for it's supposed high quality B/W output. This 
> might be the case when matte paper is used, but with Ilford Smooth 
> Pearl Paper, I get terrible metamerism (my prints get a different 
> color cast depending on the light source being daylight, fluorescent 
> light, ...) effects (even worse with Epson's or Ilford's Glossy 
> Papers)
> 
> Before investing more money into it, could somebody tell me
> 1) If the Septone ink system eliminates the problem of metamerism 
> with NON-matte papers such as Ilford Smooth Pearl or Smooth Gloss.
> 2) Is the Septone ink system compatible with the 2100 (I suppose 
> that this is the same as asking if 2200 cartridges are compatible 
> with 2100 cartridges)
> 
> Your answers are greatly appreciated...
> 
> 
> 
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
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>

Septone eliminates metamerism on Epson Premium Semi Gloss
and Luster papers, which are the only non-matte papers I've
tested. However, the bronzing (uneven surface reflections from
the inks, plus a bronze hue in most of the reflections) is
horrendous. I've tried five different spray coatings in an effort
to eliminate it. This morning I discovered that two coats
of Prismacolor "Final Fixative Gloss for Pastel, Charcoal and
Pencil" reduces it significantly AND increases the Dmax that
visually equals the best black I can get with fiber base silver 
gelatin ("darkroom") glossy paper dried matte (similar to a
"Pearl" or "Luster" surface RC paper). My experience with
two different matte sprays resulted in the print surface covered 
in a fine powder. My guess is the medium carrying the particles 
soaks into the paper, leaving the particles on the surface.
 
I have a gallon of Hydrocote Polyshield Clear Satin, which 
you might have read about on this or other discussion groups. 
I've tried it on color prints with matte papers and didn't like the 
gloss, and to do it without application marks, apparently you 
need either an air compressor-powered spray gun or a Meyer
Rod, which many people feel does the best job. Later today,
I'll just apply some with a brush to see if it works for the
bronzing. Otherwise, I have a wood project that will be happy
to accept a few coats. ;-)

I have a can of PrintShield on order. It's supposed to be
formulated for inkjet prints.

I don't know if the Septone cartridges are compatible with
your 2100, but my guess is that they are. I'd recommend
you ask that question of the good folks at
info@...


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----- Original Message ----- 
From: boywithbubblegun 
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com 
Sent: Wednesday, October 15, 2003 12:34 PM
Subject: [Digital BW] Some questions about the Septone Ink system


Hello, I am one of those who bought an Epson 2100 (as the 2200 is 
called in Europe) for it's supposed high quality B/W output. This 
might be the case when matte paper is used, but with Ilford Smooth 
Pearl Paper, I get terrible metamerism (my prints get a different 
color cast depending on the light source being daylight, fluorescent 
light, ...) effects (even worse with Epson's or Ilford's Glossy 
Papers)

Before investing more money into it, could somebody tell me
1) If the Septone ink system eliminates the problem of metamerism 
with NON-matte papers such as Ilford Smooth Pearl or Smooth Gloss.
2) Is the Septone ink system compatible with the 2100 (I suppose 
that this is the same as asking if 2200 cartridges are compatible 
with 2100 cartridges)

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]