Digital BW, The Print

Hello,
last weekend I really went through hell.

I installed a set of UT in my Epson 7500. After filling the cartriges 
everything went fine so far. I couldn´t get a good nozzle check in 
the evening so I waited untill the next morning and it seemed that 
the problem had settled down. So I tried a first printout with Pauls 
curves wich were not bad. Suddenly after another sheet of paper black 
ink purged like drops on the paper and the black was nearly totaly 
blocked. So I did an "initial fill" cycle to get air bubbles out. 
After many attempts of cleaning and intitial fill cycles I am still  
not getting a good nozzle check or print out. When I print a "print 
pattern" from the service menu I can see od horizontal misalignments 
in the black. These alignments lines behave like declining curves but 
there are no dots missing. I don´t have any explanation for that. All 
other inks work fine.

Please help with any ideas. Is there a way to get the ebony black 
working well? I really hope I haven´t damaged the printer.

Another thing: I know some people sucking out ink from the tubes with 
an negativ fill adapter. Can someone give a good description may be 
with pictures how to do this?

Regards,

Ingo Meyer

Hello Ingo,

Have you tried KK1 or KK2 cleaning?
That usually helps. (did for me)

Regards
Soren


> Hello,
> last weekend I really went through hell.
> 
> I installed a set of UT in my Epson 7500. After filling the 
cartriges 
> everything went fine so far. I couldn´t get a good nozzle check in 
> the evening so I waited untill the next morning and it seemed that 
> the problem had settled down. So I tried a first printout with 
Pauls 
> curves wich were not bad. Suddenly after another sheet of paper 
black 
> ink purged like drops on the paper and the black was nearly totaly 
> blocked. So I did an "initial fill" cycle to get air bubbles out. 
> After many attempts of cleaning and intitial fill cycles I am 
still  
> not getting a good nozzle check or print out. When I print 
a "print 
> pattern" from the service menu I can see od horizontal 
misalignments 
> in the black. These alignments lines behave like declining curves 
but 
> there are no dots missing. I don´t have any explanation for that. 
All 
> other inks work fine.
> 
> Please help with any ideas. Is there a way to get the ebony black 
> working well? I really hope I haven´t damaged the printer.
> 
> Another thing: I know some people sucking out ink from the tubes 
with 
> an negativ fill adapter. Can someone give a good description may 
be 

> with pictures how to do this?
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Ingo Meyer

Ingo,

You wrote, in part:

>Is there a way to get the ebony black working well?

I'm sorry to hear you're having problems, and I'm no expert in theses
machines.   However, as to whether Eboni can run well in a 7500, my
experience is that it can.  All I did with my 7500 is a "prepare for
transport" to drain the Archival black, and then I loaded the UT carts,
including Eboni.  The 7500 has run very smoothly with almost no clogs.  It
sat unused for 10 weeks and only needed 3 cleaning cycles to get a perfect
nozzle check.  So, it can be done.

One thing that I'm very careful to do in loading 7500 carts with ink is to
be sure all the foam and air is out of the cartridge.  When I inject the
ink, I have the syringe at an angle so that the ink stream hits the side of
the bag and not the pool of ink directly.  When full, I slowly withdraw the
syringe, sucking out the air and foam as I go.

In general, we know that Eboni is sensitive to dyes.  I'm suspicious that
Epson Archival K does contain some dye.  The 7500 I bought was so little
used, that it's possible there was not enough dye to matter.

MIS recommends that large format printers have a flushing fluid put them to
get the dyes out of the dampers.  Either I was lucky, or the Archival K
doesn't have enough dye in it to matter with respect to the dampers.

However, there is also a possibility that, if the 7500 was not fairly new,
there might be enough dye on the parking pads to cause trouble.  So, I'd
consider rinsing them with Windex and wiping off the surface of the pads
rather thoroughly.  Then try to wipe the heads with a Windex-soaked paper
towel.  That did the trick with my 1280, which was showing deflected nozzle
check patterns -- possibly evidence of surface solids on the head.

Good luck.

Paul
http://www.PaulRoark.com
_______________________________________

-----Original Message-----
From: patchy6513 [mailto:ingo.meyer@...]
Sent: Monday, October 27, 2003 3:10 AM
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Digital BW] Help needed: Epson 7500 ebony clogged


Hello,
last weekend I really went through hell.

I installed a set of UT in my Epson 7500. After filling the cartriges
everything went fine so far. I couldn\ufffdt get a good nozzle check in
the evening so I waited untill the next morning and it seemed that
the problem had settled down. So I tried a first printout with Pauls
curves wich were not bad. Suddenly after another sheet of paper black
ink purged like drops on the paper and the black was nearly totaly
blocked. So I did an "initial fill" cycle to get air bubbles out.
After many attempts of cleaning and intitial fill cycles I am still
not getting a good nozzle check or print out. When I print a "print
pattern" from the service menu I can see od horizontal misalignments
in the black. These alignments lines behave like declining curves but
there are no dots missing. I don\ufffdt have any explanation for that. All
other inks work fine.

Please help with any ideas. Is there a way to get the ebony black
working well? I really hope I haven\ufffdt damaged the printer.

Another thing: I know some people sucking out ink from the tubes with
an negativ fill adapter. Can someone give a good description may be
with pictures how to do this?

Regards,

Ingo Meyer

Thank you all for your advices,

yesterday I tried again with a KK1 and KK2 cleaning and ended with 
having emptied two newly filled cartridges. I will fill in the rest 
of the bulk ink (about 20 ml) to have some more test.

Did anyone have experienced or seen the mentioned horizontal 
misalignements ? Any ideas how they are produced? I really don´t have 
clou about them. I will scan the printout and post them here. 

As I said I had already two perfect prints in the beginning. All the 
mess started with the ink drops on the paper. Is there something 
disconected or ruptured? I think I have to sort out a few things. 

Here in Germany we don´t have Windex. I saw this is a usual Window 
cleaner. Does Windex have any special ingredients ? Can I just choose 
a similar product or is there any danger with other ingredients. I 
read that alcohol can make the problem even worser with some inks. 
Has someone a recommendation for a similar product on the german 
market?

Ingo



-- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Roark" 
<paul.roark@v...> wrote:
> Ingo,
> 
> You wrote, in part:
> 
> >Is there a way to get the ebony black working well?
> 
> I'm sorry to hear you're having problems, and I'm no expert in 
theses
> machines.   However, as to whether Eboni can run well in a 7500, my
> experience is that it can.  All I did with my 7500 is a "prepare for
> transport" to drain the Archival black, and then I loaded the UT 
carts,
> including Eboni.  The 7500 has run very smoothly with almost no 
clogs.  It
> sat unused for 10 weeks and only needed 3 cleaning cycles to get a 
perfect
> nozzle check.  So, it can be done.
> 
> One thing that I'm very careful to do in loading 7500 carts with 
ink is to
> be sure all the foam and air is out of the cartridge.  When I 
inject the
> ink, I have the syringe at an angle so that the ink stream hits the 
side of
> the bag and not the pool of ink directly.  When full, I slowly 
withdraw the
> syringe, sucking out the air and foam as I go.
> 
> In general, we know that Eboni is sensitive to dyes.  I'm 
suspicious that
> Epson Archival K does contain some dye.  The 7500 I bought was so 
little
> used, that it's possible there was not enough dye to matter.
> 
> MIS recommends that large format printers have a flushing fluid put 
them to
> get the dyes out of the dampers.  Either I was lucky, or the 
Archival K
> doesn't have enough dye in it to matter with respect to the dampers.
> 
> However, there is also a possibility that, if the 7500 was not 
fairly new,
> there might be enough dye on the parking pads to cause trouble.  
So, I'd
> consider rinsing them with Windex and wiping off the surface of the 
pads
> rather thoroughly.  Then try to wipe the heads with a Windex-soaked 
paper
> towel.  That did the trick with my 1280, which was showing 
deflected nozzle
> check patterns -- possibly evidence of surface solids on the head.
> 
> Good luck.
> 
> Paul
> http://www.PaulRoark.com
> _______________________________________
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: patchy6513 [mailto:ingo.meyer@q...]
> Sent: Monday, October 27, 2003 3:10 AM
> To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Digital BW] Help needed: Epson 7500 ebony clogged
> 
> 
> Hello,
> last weekend I really went through hell.
> 
> I installed a set of UT in my Epson 7500. After filling the 
cartriges
> everything went fine so far. I couldn´t get a good nozzle check in
> the evening so I waited untill the next morning and it seemed that
> the problem had settled down. So I tried a first printout with Pauls
> curves wich were not bad. Suddenly after another sheet of paper 
black
> ink purged like drops on the paper and the black was nearly totaly
> blocked. So I did an "initial fill" cycle to get air bubbles out.
> After many attempts of cleaning and intitial fill cycles I am still
> not getting a good nozzle check or print out. When I print a "print
> pattern" from the service menu I can see od horizontal misalignments
> in the black. These alignments lines behave like declining curves 
but
> there are no dots missing. I don´t have any explanation for that. 
All
> other inks work fine.
> 
> Please help with any ideas. Is there a way to get the ebony black
> working well? I really hope I haven´t damaged the printer.
> 
> Another thing: I know some people sucking out ink from the tubes 
with

> an negativ fill adapter. Can someone give a good description may be
> with pictures how to do this?
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Ingo Meyer

> Here in Germany we don´t have Windex. I saw this is a usual Window 
> cleaner. Does Windex have any special ingredients ? > 


Ingo,
Here are some suggestions for cleaners sold in Europe.
http://www.mwords.co.uk/pages/printers/printersHowDoI.htm#WhichCleaner
Cheers,
Andre

> As I said I had already two perfect prints in the beginning. All the 
> mess started with the ink drops on the paper. Is there something 
> disconected or ruptured? I think I have to sort out a few things. 
> Ingo

Seems like the head is too close to the paper - the paper is too thick so you need to 
use the Wide Platten setting. I forgot the procedure it's been awhile - but had the ink 
blobs and did the Wide Platten setting/alignment and that fixed the problem.

Try:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/EpsonWideFormat/messages/

http://www.visual-artists.com/manuals.htm

Thank you again for all your helps!

After reading the whole service manual I controlled all the 
mechanical parts and they looked absolutely fine. By this chance I 
learned how to fill new inks backwards from the dampers. So I made a 
try and sucked out the ebony black and filled in the original Epson 
black ink. It needed a few cleaning cycles but then all problems went 
away.
It seems that the ebony black didn´t worked in my printer for 
whatever reason. I am not sure if I want a second try with ebony at 
the moment but with the original epson black I dont get an acceptable 
dmax. Therefore I´m thinking to have a try with the Epson mattblack 
from the Epson 7600. Could this be a good idea?

I own also the Epson 2100 and made very good black and white prints ( 
with ugly green and magenta metamerism)in respect of dmax, tonal 
range and sharpness that were also matching exactly the image from 
the monitor. The 2 prints I got from the Epson 7500 with the UT and 
Paul´s curve were far away from the results I expected. I´m sure with 
a lot of experimenting and adjusting you can optimize the prints for 
your own taste but I realy would like to get what I see on the 
monitor. 

After all conclusions I will try now to use the UT with the Epson 
mattblack instead of ebony together with a quadtone rip and self 
generated profiles.

Do you think this is a good idea? Any comments are appreciated...

Regards,

Ingo

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "patchy6513" 
<ingo.meyer@q...> wrote:
> Thank you all for your advices,
> 
> yesterday I tried again with a KK1 and KK2 cleaning and ended with 
> having emptied two newly filled cartridges. I will fill in the rest 
> of the bulk ink (about 20 ml) to have some more test.
> 
> Did anyone have experienced or seen the mentioned horizontal 
> misalignements ? Any ideas how they are produced? I really don´t 
have 
> clou about them. I will scan the printout and post them here. 
> 
> As I said I had already two perfect prints in the beginning. All 
the 
> mess started with the ink drops on the paper. Is there something 
> disconected or ruptured? I think I have to sort out a few things. 
> 
> Here in Germany we don´t have Windex. I saw this is a usual Window 
> cleaner. Does Windex have any special ingredients ? Can I just 
choose 
> a similar product or is there any danger with other ingredients. I 
> read that alcohol can make the problem even worser with some inks. 
> Has someone a recommendation for a similar product on the german 
> market?
> 
> Ingo
> 
> 
> 
> -- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Roark" 
> <paul.roark@v...> wrote:
> > Ingo,
> > 
> > You wrote, in part:
> > 
> > >Is there a way to get the ebony black working well?
> > 
> > I'm sorry to hear you're having problems, and I'm no expert in 
> theses
> > machines.   However, as to whether Eboni can run well in a 7500, 
my
> > experience is that it can.  All I did with my 7500 is a "prepare 
for
> > transport" to drain the Archival black, and then I loaded the UT 
> carts,
> > including Eboni.  The 7500 has run very smoothly with almost no 
> clogs.  It
> > sat unused for 10 weeks and only needed 3 cleaning cycles to get 
a 
> perfect
> > nozzle check.  So, it can be done.
> > 
> > One thing that I'm very careful to do in loading 7500 carts with 
> ink is to
> > be sure all the foam and air is out of the cartridge.  When I 
> inject the
> > ink, I have the syringe at an angle so that the ink stream hits 
the 
> side of
> > the bag and not the pool of ink directly.  When full, I slowly 
> withdraw the
> > syringe, sucking out the air and foam as I go.
> > 
> > In general, we know that Eboni is sensitive to dyes.  I'm 
> suspicious that
> > Epson Archival K does contain some dye.  The 7500 I bought was so 
> little
> > used, that it's possible there was not enough dye to matter.
> > 
> > MIS recommends that large format printers have a flushing fluid 
put 
> them to
> > get the dyes out of the dampers.  Either I was lucky, or the 
> Archival K
> > doesn't have enough dye in it to matter with respect to the 
dampers.
> > 
> > However, there is also a possibility that, if the 7500 was not 
> fairly new,
> > there might be enough dye on the parking pads to cause trouble.  
> So, I'd
> > consider rinsing them with Windex and wiping off the surface of 
the 
> pads
> > rather thoroughly.  Then try to wipe the heads with a Windex-
soaked 
> paper
> > towel.  That did the trick with my 1280, which was showing 
> deflected nozzle
> > check patterns -- possibly evidence of surface solids on the head.
> > 
> > Good luck.
> > 
> > Paul
> > http://www.PaulRoark.com
> > _______________________________________
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: patchy6513 [mailto:ingo.meyer@q...]
> > Sent: Monday, October 27, 2003 3:10 AM
> > To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: [Digital BW] Help needed: Epson 7500 ebony clogged
> > 
> > 
> > Hello,
> > last weekend I really went through hell.
> > 
> > I installed a set of UT in my Epson 7500. After filling the 
> cartriges
> > everything went fine so far. I couldn´t get a good nozzle check in
> > the evening so I waited untill the next morning and it seemed that
> > the problem had settled down. So I tried a first printout with 
Pauls
> > curves wich were not bad. Suddenly after another sheet of paper 
> black
> > ink purged like drops on the paper and the black was nearly totaly
> > blocked. So I did an "initial fill" cycle to get air bubbles out.
> > After many attempts of cleaning and intitial fill cycles I am 
still
> > not getting a good nozzle check or print out. When I print 
a "print
> > pattern" from the service menu I can see od horizontal 
misalignments
> > in the black. These alignments lines behave like declining curves 
> but
> > there are no dots missing. I don´t have any explanation for that. 
> All
> > other inks work fine.
> > 
> > Please help with any ideas. Is there a way to get the ebony black
> > working well? I really hope I haven´t damaged the printer.
> > 
> > Another thing: I know some people sucking out ink from the tubes 
> with
> > an negativ fill adapter. Can someone give a good description may 
be

> > with pictures how to do this?
> > 
> > Regards,
> > 
> > Ingo Meyer

> After all conclusions I will try now to use the UT with the Epson 
> mattblack instead of ebony together with a quadtone rip and self 
> generated profiles.
> 
> Do you think this is a good idea? Any comments are appreciated...

I compared the Epson Matte black and the Eboni once, and the Epson ink
had slightly better dmax. The difference was small, I doubt you would
see it if you weren't comparing directly. 

The Epson Matte Black is also warmer than the Eboni, so you can excpect
slightly warmer shadow tones.

--
Daniel Staver
http://daniel.staver.no

Ingo,

>... filled in the original Epson black ink. It needed a
>few cleaning cycles but then all problems went away.

>It seems that the ebony black didn\ufffdt worked in my printer for
>whatever reason. I am not sure if I want a second try with ebony at
>the moment but with the original epson black I dont get an acceptable
>dmax. Therefore I\ufffdm thinking to have a try with the Epson mattblack
>from the Epson 7600. Could this be a good idea?

I concur with Daniel Staver.  The Epson Matte Black measures slightly darker
with the densitometer but is noticeably warmer.  I think because of the
warmth, it seems to look slightly less dark in a few of my pictures, so I do
prefer the Eboni.  However, the Epson UltraChrome matte (and photo) blacks
are excellent (as are the MIS versions).

As to why the Eboni didn't work, one possibility is that the damper screen
in your 7500 is getting clogged.  (Dampers are apparently relatively cheap
and easy to replace.)  The Archival black may be a slightly smaller and
smoother particle.  The UC Matte black is, for example, slightly larger than
the Photo black.  The smaller, coated particles may simply be able to get
through a screen that is just too clogged for larger particles to get
through.

I don't have statistics on the particle sizes, but my belief is that the
Photo black and probably Archival black are about 0.1 micron.  The Matte
black is, I think 0.14, and it supposedly has a special surface that helps
it stay in suspension.  Some of the pigments average about 0.25 microns.  In
general, all else being equal, the larger the pigment particle, the more
resistant to oxidation and fading.  The Eboni and PiezoTone Museum blacks
are so good in this respect that I suspect they may be relatively large
particles.

So, if this is what is happening, the matte black may also have trouble --
or maybe not.  I'll be curious if it works and isn't too warm for you.

>...I realy would like to get what I see on the monitor.

Be sure to make a custom dot gain curve for the PS preview feature.  Tyler
explained the procedure at
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/piezography3000/message/17849

Good luck.

Paul
http://www.PaulRoark.com
_______________________________________

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "patchy6513"
<ingo.meyer@q...> wrote:
> Thank you all for your advices,
>
> yesterday I tried again with a KK1 and KK2 cleaning and ended with
> having emptied two newly filled cartridges. I will fill in the rest
> of the bulk ink (about 20 ml) to have some more test.
>
> Did anyone have experienced or seen the mentioned horizontal
> misalignements ? Any ideas how they are produced? I really don\ufffdt
have
> clou about them. I will scan the printout and post them here.
>
> As I said I had already two perfect prints in the beginning. All
the
> mess started with the ink drops on the paper. Is there something
> disconected or ruptured? I think I have to sort out a few things.
>
> Here in Germany we don\ufffdt have Windex. I saw this is a usual Window
> cleaner. Does Windex have any special ingredients ? Can I just
choose
> a similar product or is there any danger with other ingredients. I
> read that alcohol can make the problem even worser with some inks.
> Has someone a recommendation for a similar product on the german
> market?
>
> Ingo
>
>
>
> -- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Roark"
> <paul.roark@v...> wrote:
> > Ingo,
> >
> > You wrote, in part:
> >
> > >Is there a way to get the ebony black working well?
> >
> > I'm sorry to hear you're having problems, and I'm no expert in
> theses
> > machines.   However, as to whether Eboni can run well in a 7500,
my
> > experience is that it can.  All I did with my 7500 is a "prepare
for
> > transport" to drain the Archival black, and then I loaded the UT
> carts,
> > including Eboni.  The 7500 has run very smoothly with almost no
> clogs.  It
> > sat unused for 10 weeks and only needed 3 cleaning cycles to get
a
> perfect
> > nozzle check.  So, it can be done.
> >
> > One thing that I'm very careful to do in loading 7500 carts with
> ink is to
> > be sure all the foam and air is out of the cartridge.  When I
> inject the
> > ink, I have the syringe at an angle so that the ink stream hits
the
> side of
> > the bag and not the pool of ink directly.  When full, I slowly
> withdraw the
> > syringe, sucking out the air and foam as I go.
> >
> > In general, we know that Eboni is sensitive to dyes.  I'm
> suspicious that
> > Epson Archival K does contain some dye.  The 7500 I bought was so
> little
> > used, that it's possible there was not enough dye to matter.
> >
> > MIS recommends that large format printers have a flushing fluid
put
> them to
> > get the dyes out of the dampers.  Either I was lucky, or the
> Archival K
> > doesn't have enough dye in it to matter with respect to the
dampers.
> >
> > However, there is also a possibility that, if the 7500 was not
> fairly new,
> > there might be enough dye on the parking pads to cause trouble.
> So, I'd
> > consider rinsing them with Windex and wiping off the surface of
the
> pads
> > rather thoroughly.  Then try to wipe the heads with a Windex-
soaked
> paper
> > towel.  That did the trick with my 1280, which was showing
> deflected nozzle
> > check patterns -- possibly evidence of surface solids on the head.
> >
> > Good luck.
> >
> > Paul
> > http://www.PaulRoark.com
> > _______________________________________
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: patchy6513 [mailto:ingo.meyer@q...]
> > Sent: Monday, October 27, 2003 3:10 AM
> > To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: [Digital BW] Help needed: Epson 7500 ebony clogged
> >
> >
> > Hello,
> > last weekend I really went through hell.
> >
> > I installed a set of UT in my Epson 7500. After filling the
> cartriges
> > everything went fine so far. I couldn\ufffdt get a good nozzle check in
> > the evening so I waited untill the next morning and it seemed that
> > the problem had settled down. So I tried a first printout with
Pauls
> > curves wich were not bad. Suddenly after another sheet of paper
> black
> > ink purged like drops on the paper and the black was nearly totaly
> > blocked. So I did an "initial fill" cycle to get air bubbles out.
> > After many attempts of cleaning and intitial fill cycles I am
still
> > not getting a good nozzle check or print out. When I print
a "print
> > pattern" from the service menu I can see od horizontal
misalignments
> > in the black. These alignments lines behave like declining curves
> but
> > there are no dots missing. I don\ufffdt have any explanation for that.
> All
> > other inks work fine.
> >
> > Please help with any ideas. Is there a way to get the ebony black
> > working well? I really hope I haven\ufffdt damaged the printer.
> >
> > Another thing: I know some people sucking out ink from the tubes
> with
> > an negativ fill adapter. Can someone give a good description may
be
> > with pictures how to do this?
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Ingo Meyer



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