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Re: [Digital BW] Re: MIS VM Sepia and QTR

Re: [Digital BW] Re: MIS VM Sepia and QTR

2003-10-29 by Ernst Dinkla

----- Original Message ----- 
Show quoted textHide quoted text
From: "Roy Harrington" <roy@...>
To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2003 5:32 AM
Subject: [Digital BW] Re: MIS VM Sepia and QTR


> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Roger L
Sopher"
> <rlsopher@c...> wrote:
> > Has anyone had any experience using the MIS variable-sepia
inkset with QTR?
> > I have been well satisfied using MIS FSN in a CIS for some
time but I now
> > have a number of images that would benefit (I hope) by being
printed warmer.
> > I know Paul R's curves will work but I rather am taken by the
idea of being
> > able to blend in just a bit or a lot of warm tones which QTR
should do
> > easily. Two questions, I guess, With the toner turned off how
would a print
> > compare to MIS FSN? and second with the full sepia setting
just how warm
> > will it get?
> >
> > I suppose the best answer is to let some of the moths out of
my wallet and
> > buy a set but being inherently cheap Would like to know
others experience
> > before I splurge.
> >
> > thanks
> >
> > Roger
> >
> >
> >
> > Roger L Sopher
> > rlsopher@d...
> > http:\\deCorrales.com
> >
>
> Hi Roger,
>
> VM-Sepia has been my major inkset for quite a while.  In my
1160 I'm
> using the off-the-shelf set; I've been customizing the set in
my 7500
> to fine tune the exact color/tone that I would like.
>
> I haven't used FS-N but my understanding is that VM-Sepia grays
are
> identical color to the FS-N,  so with no toner you would get
the same
> result as using the FS-N inks.  The sepia toner is a very warm
color so
> it's possible to go quite warm if that's what you like.  With
QTR you can
> go quite a bit more in that direction than Paul Roark's curves.
>
> My personal goal has been to introduce a small amount of the
sepia to
> neutralize the excessive cold tone (IMO) of the grays.  To my
eyes, the
> path from cold grays to warm sepia passes slightly to the
greenish side
> so I've customized my sepia toner by adding a lot of magenta
ink.  In
> the neutral range I really like the new color, but the strong
sepia  may
> be a bit magenta.
>
> Roy

Roy,

Are you using that toner in the LM channel next to the blue toner
in the M channel ?  And two B&W printers in QTR that share the
same port and hardware ?

Or will it be possible to extend QTR with two toners and a more
complicated blending of the toners ?
With one channel not used one starts to fantasize :-)

Ernst

Re: [Digital BW] Re: MIS VM Sepia and QTR

2003-10-29 by Carl Schofield

Ernst,

Not sure if this what you were thinking about, but MIS is now selling 
an Ultratone inkset for the 2200 that includes a blue toner in the LC 
position and sepia toner in the LM position.
http://www.inksupply.com/index.cfm?source=html/whatsnew.html
The inkset also includes a matte K (Eboni) and photo K, so with the two 
toners and two blacks a lot of tone combinations and paper types can be 
used.

Carl
Show quoted textHide quoted text
On Wednesday, October 29, 2003, at 03:43  AM, Ernst Dinkla wrote:
> Roy,
>
> Are you using that toner in the LM channel next to the blue toner
> in the M channel ?  And two B&W printers in QTR that share the
> same port and hardware ?
>
> Or will it be possible to extend QTR with two toners and a more
> complicated blending of the toners ?
> With one channel not used one starts to fantasize :-)
>
> Ernst

Re: [Digital BW] Re: MIS VM Sepia and QTR

2003-10-29 by Ernst Dinkla

----- Original Message ----- 
Show quoted textHide quoted text
From: "Carl Schofield" <scho@...>
To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2003 3:24 PM
Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Re: MIS VM Sepia and QTR


> Ernst,
>
> Not sure if this what you were thinking about, but MIS is now
selling
> an Ultratone inkset for the 2200 that includes a blue toner in
the LC
> position and sepia toner in the LM position.
> http://www.inksupply.com/index.cfm?source=html/whatsnew.html
> The inkset also includes a matte K (Eboni) and photo K, so with
the two
> toners and two blacks a lot of tone combinations and paper
types can be
> used.
>
> Carl


Carl,

It is for an Epson 9000 so 2200 carts don't get me there. On the
9000 I have a 7 inkline CIS now for the 6 heads, I can switch
between the matte black and the photo black. The LM channel with
the light toner isn't used in the QTR choices so that could
become sepia channel.

On the MIS pages below the Ultratone VM set pricelist there's the
availability of sepia ink mentioned. In bulk I presume. I have
however some pints of the MIS 7600 CcMmYK ink here and it will
not be a problem to mix a sepia toner in the same fashion as the
blue toner. I had to mix an LC identical Ultratone already with
the other Ultratones as an emergency solution because the LC
bottle went into the waste bottle. I have 20 years of silkscreen
ink mixing experience and that helps (+ a densitometer + a
spectrometer). As I understand it now, the sepia as delivered by
MIS isn't to everyone's taste.

Ernst

[Digital BW] Re: MIS VM Sepia and QTR

2003-10-29 by Roy Harrington

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Ernst Dinkla" 
<E.Dinkla@c...> wrote:
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Roy Harrington" <roy@h...>
> To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2003 5:32 AM
> Subject: [Digital BW] Re: MIS VM Sepia and QTR
> 
> 
> > --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Roger L
> Sopher"
> > <rlsopher@c...> wrote:
> > > Has anyone had any experience using the MIS variable-sepia
> inkset with QTR?
> > > I have been well satisfied using MIS FSN in a CIS for some
> time but I now
> > > have a number of images that would benefit (I hope) by being
> printed warmer.
> > > I know Paul R's curves will work but I rather am taken by the
> idea of being
> > > able to blend in just a bit or a lot of warm tones which QTR
> should do
> > > easily. Two questions, I guess, With the toner turned off how
> would a print
> > > compare to MIS FSN? and second with the full sepia setting
> just how warm
> > > will it get?
> > >
> > > I suppose the best answer is to let some of the moths out of
> my wallet and
> > > buy a set but being inherently cheap Would like to know
> others experience
> > > before I splurge.
> > >
> > > thanks
> > >
> > > Roger
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Roger L Sopher
> > > rlsopher@d...
> > > http:\\deCorrales.com
> > >
> >
> > Hi Roger,
> >
> > VM-Sepia has been my major inkset for quite a while.  In my
> 1160 I'm
> > using the off-the-shelf set; I've been customizing the set in
> my 7500
> > to fine tune the exact color/tone that I would like.
> >
> > I haven't used FS-N but my understanding is that VM-Sepia grays
> are
> > identical color to the FS-N,  so with no toner you would get
> the same
> > result as using the FS-N inks.  The sepia toner is a very warm
> color so
> > it's possible to go quite warm if that's what you like.  With
> QTR you can
> > go quite a bit more in that direction than Paul Roark's curves.
> >
> > My personal goal has been to introduce a small amount of the
> sepia to
> > neutralize the excessive cold tone (IMO) of the grays.  To my
> eyes, the
> > path from cold grays to warm sepia passes slightly to the
> greenish side
> > so I've customized my sepia toner by adding a lot of magenta
> ink.  In
> > the neutral range I really like the new color, but the strong
> sepia  may
> > be a bit magenta.
> >
> > Roy
> 
> Roy,
> 
> Are you using that toner in the LM channel next to the blue toner
> in the M channel ?  And two B&W printers in QTR that share the
> same port and hardware ?
> 
> Or will it be possible to extend QTR with two toners and a more
> complicated blending of the toners ?
> With one channel not used one starts to fantasize :-)
> 
> Ernst

Ernst,

I'm using the VM-Sepia inkset, so the toner is sepia and the grays are
cool/cold gray.   I've been evolving that setup -- started as K,C,LC,Y are
grays and M,LM are sepia.  My first change was deciding I didn't need the
LM (light sepia) so I thought why not smooth out the gradient so I expanded 
the grays to 5 grays.  Well that worked nicely but the color for neutral was
a little greenish.  I debated on trying to remix all the grays but that seemed
like difficult task to match them all.  I then got the idea to just add the
magenta (anti-green) to the toner.  Now I can get a nice selenium/neutral
tone with the VM-Sepia grays.   The downside is that the full sepia is
a bit too magenta/red.


For the future, I'd really like to get more precise control of the color
and I think the two toner scheme is the best possibility.  I'm thinking of
trying out the ultratone ink set but instead of the blue toner keeping the
magenta and cyan inks separate and mixing them in software i.e. curves.
That way I can vary the M/C mixture so the shadows have more M but the
highlights stay more neutral.

MIS just recently packaged a 2200 ink set where two toners are used but
they are the blue toner and the sepia toner.  I suspect that will be used
more as one or the other for a larger range of colors.  I know one guy
trying this out on a 7500 as well.  For a 7 ink machine you could probably
give up an other gray since they are variable dot size and add the
yellow separate and get any tone you want.

Roy

Re: [Digital BW] Re: MIS VM Sepia and QTR

2003-10-30 by Reinier van der Ryst

Roy wrote:
>
> For the future, I'd really like to get more precise control of the color
> and I think the two toner scheme is the best possibility.  I'm thinking of
> trying out the ultratone ink set but instead of the blue toner keeping the
> magenta and cyan inks separate and mixing them in software i.e. curves.
> That way I can vary the M/C mixture so the shadows have more M but the
> highlights stay more neutral.
>
> MIS just recently packaged a 2200 ink set where two toners are used but
> they are the blue toner and the sepia toner.  I suspect that will be used
> more as one or the other for a larger range of colors.  I know one guy
> trying this out on a 7500 as well.  For a 7 ink machine you could probably
> give up an other gray since they are variable dot size and add the
> yellow separate and get any tone you want.
>
Why not go the whole way with the hextone printers - using the UT inks.

Keep the three colours seperate, but add a little gray to them so that it
makes up for not having a light gray. In this way you can combine two
colours to get the tone you want. ( Y and m will give a sepia/brown
and m and c will provide a blue.)

16%  7600 Y   or   7600 M   or   7600 C
16%  7600 LK
68%  7600 Base
(NB - The base is the 7600 base which is a light tea colour - NOT the
colourless.)

Then I suggest using it as follows:

Position       Ink
K                UT-HEX-K  (Eboni)
C                UT-HEX-C   (dark gray)
M               UT-HEX-M   (middle gray)
Y (y?)         light yellow - from above
c                 light cyan - from above
m                light magenta - from above

In this way you can have any tone - period. I think the gray mixed in with
the colours would also tend to mask metamerism!?

Roy, can QTRip handle this without modification.

My teaching workload and my 1160 that stopped working kept me away
from working on QTR. I had Gimp-print 4.3.18 going under Linux and was
waiting for UT inks when my 1160 stopped. (The cost to fix it is more than
half the price of a new 1160.) Within the next two weeks I hope to get a
1290 and the I want to go to Gimp-print 4.3.21 to get the new improvements.
(See the attachment for the improvements that interest me.)

Reinier van der Ryst

  ----------
Show quoted textHide quoted text
From: Reinier van der Ryst <rvdryst@...>
To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Re: MIS VM Sepia and QTR
Date: 30 October 2003 15:34

Roy wrote
> 
> For the future, I'd really like to get more precise control of the color
> and I think the two toner scheme is the best possibility.  I'm thinking of
> trying out the ultratone ink set but instead of the blue toner keeping the
> magenta and cyan inks separate and mixing them in software i.e. curves.
> That way I can vary the M/C mixture so the shadows have more M but the
> highlights stay more neutral.
> 
> MIS just recently packaged a 2200 ink set where two toners are used but
> they are the blue toner and the sepia toner.  I suspect that will be used
> more as one or the other for a larger range of colors.  I know one guy
> trying this out on a 7500 as well.  For a 7 ink machine you could probably
> give up an other gray since they are variable dot size and add the
> yellow separate and get any tone you want.
> 
Why not go the whole way with the hextone printers - using the UT inks.

Keep the three colours seperate, but add a little gray to them so that it
makes up for not having a light gray.

16%  7600 Y     /  7600 M     / 7600 C
16%  7600 LK
68%  7600 Base

Then use it as follows:

Position       Ink
K                UT-HEX-K  (Eboni)
C                UT-HEX-C
M               UT-HEX-M
Y                light yellow from above
c                 light cyan from above
m                light magenta from above

In this way you can have any tone - period. I think the gray mixed in with
the colours would also tend to mask metamerism!?

Roy, can QTRip handle this without modification.


Gimp-print 4.3.20
3) Ink drop sizes and densities have been recalibrated on many Epson
   printers, particularly the 4 picolitre drop size printers and the
   printers using DuraBrite ink (C80 and C82).  There proved to be
   significant errors in the drop sizes, making resolutions less than
   2880x720 produce inferior results.  In addition, many printers had
   incorrect density calibration at certain resolutions, generally
   producing output that is too light.

Gimp-print 4.3.21
1) This release offers further improvements in quality.  The specific
   improvements are described below.

   The driver now attempts to use as many small drops as possible
   before starting to use larger drops when printing on variable drop
   size printers.  This improves the texture of midtones, particularly
   at lower resolutions (extremely high resolutions typically only use
   the smallest drop size available).  The result is that 1440x720
   DPI, or in some cases even 720 DPI, now offers quality almost
   identical to higher (and slower) resolutions such as 2880x720 and
   2880x1440 DPI.

   The driver also uses more light ink prior to switching to dark ink
   (for 6 and 7 color printers).  This improves smoothness in
   midtones.  Furthermore, the transition between light and dark ink
   is adaptive, depending upon the amount of black (both black ink and
   black component printed with color inks) in addition to the color
   being printed.  This allows use of more dark ink in darker regions,
   reducing the likelihood of overloading the paper and producing a
   darker gray tone.  The combination of these two changes increases
   ink usage in some cases (mostly saturated midtones, where more
   light ink is used) and decreases it in others (mid grays).

   The color correction has been further tweaked based on observations
   of behavior in 4.3.20.  In particular, the desaturation in dark
   tones has been tweaked to achieve a better match and smoother
   transitions.

   The EvenTone dither algorithm has significant improvements in
   smoothness when multiple drop sizes are used, particularly for
   black-only prints.  In addition, certain artifacts in the light
   midtones have been eliminated.  There are some very weak new
   artifacts that may occur in regions of transition between drop
   sizes, but in most cases these will not be visible.

   Finally, the black generation has been changed, producing more
   solid dark tones.  Instead of a linear ramp between the point at
   black ink starts to be introduced and the point at which the gray
   component is printed with all black, the black generation now uses
   an exponential (gamma) curve whose exponent depends upon the
   printer and the paper in use.  This produces more solid dark grays
   while avoiding either a sharp transition from muddy grays using
   only color inks, excessive grain from use of too much black ink in
   lighter grays, or lack of contrast in dark tones caused by too much
   black ink.

   At present, only the Epson driver utilizes these changes.

2) Individual Epson printers have been retuned, producing closer
   matches between different printers and papers.  Specific
   improvements:

   * The new Stylus Photo series (780, 785, 790, 810, 820, 830, 870,
     890, 895, 900, 915, 925, 935, 1270, 1280, and 1290) has improved
     dark tones without muddiness.  In addition, the drop sizes at 720
     and 1440x720 DPI have been recalibrated, producing much better
     results in the midtones at these resolutions.

     The color correction curves of these printers have also been
     recalibrated on a variety of papers, in particular producing
     better blue and red tones.

     These printers also benefit greatly from all of the improvements
     described above, and produce quality very close to photographic
     prints.

   * The Stylus C70/C80/C82/C84 densities have been recalibrated on a
     variety of papers, eliminating excessive ink usage on high
     quality papers.

   * The Stylus Photo 950 and 960 drop sizes have been recalibrated,
     improving results significantly at 1440x720 DPI and to a lesser
     extent at 720 DPI.  In addition, the color correction curves have
     been adjusted, particularly for blue hues.  These changes will
     benefit the equivalent Japanese market printers (PM-950C,
     PM-970C, and PM-980C) if the dark yellow ink is not used.

   * The Stylus Photo 2100 and 2200 have been recalibrated on a
     variety of papers, using both matte and photo black ink.  In
     addition, the color correction curves have been adjusted and
     should give excellent color reproduction, particularly on glossy
     papers.

     These improvements should apply to other printers using
     UltraChrome inks (Stylus Pro 7600 and 9600).

   * The Stylus Color 680/777 ink drop sizes at 720 DPI have been
     adjusted.




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [Digital BW] Re: MIS VM Sepia and QTR

2003-10-31 by john eckenrode

Reinier
you mentioned that you where using GIMP-PRINT 4.3.18
aka the "unstable release." did you actually use it
with QTR and was it compatible? and did you have any
crash or computer freakout issues with that release? i
have been using 4.2.5 on OSX, but the improvments you
noted and what i've read make 4.3.xx seem very
appealing. I wonder when 4.3 will be considered
considered "stable."
john Eckenrode

My teaching workload and my 1160 that stopped
> working kept me away
> from working on QTR. I had Gimp-print 4.3.18 going
> under Linux and was
> waiting for UT inks when my 1160 stopped. (The cost
> to fix it is more than
> half the price of a new 1160.) Within the next two
> weeks I hope to get a
> 1290 and the I want to go to Gimp-print 4.3.21 to
> get the new improvements.
> (See the attachment for the improvements that
> interest me.)
> 
> Reinier van der Ryst

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
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Re: [Digital BW] Re: MIS VM Sepia and QTR

2003-10-31 by Ernst Dinkla

----- Original Message ----- 
Show quoted textHide quoted text
From: "john eckenrode" <ejohn182002@...>
To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, October 31, 2003 10:43 AM
Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Re: MIS VM Sepia and QTR


> Reinier
> you mentioned that you where using GIMP-PRINT 4.3.18
> aka the "unstable release." did you actually use it
> with QTR and was it compatible? and did you have any
> crash or computer freakout issues with that release? i
> have been using 4.2.5 on OSX, but the improvments you
> noted and what i've read make 4.3.xx seem very
> appealing. I wonder when 4.3 will be considered
> considered "stable."
> john Eckenrode

The 4.3.21 is usable in Suse with QTR. It will not take long
before the stable version is out I as I understand it so this
version will be quite stable.

Ernst

RE: [Digital BW] Re: MIS VM Sepia and QTR

2003-10-31 by Roger L Sopher

Hi Ernst,

Could you elaborate on Gimp-Print 4.3.21 and QTR? Does this in fact allow
printing via a QTR driver from The Gimp?

Roger

Roger L Sopher
rlsopher@...
http:\\deCorrales.com
Show quoted textHide quoted text
  -----Original Message-----
  From: Ernst Dinkla [mailto:E.Dinkla@...]
  Sent: Friday, October 31, 2003 3:24 AM
  To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
  Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Re: MIS VM Sepia and QTR



  ----- Original Message -----
  From: "john eckenrode" <ejohn182002@...>
  To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
  Sent: Friday, October 31, 2003 10:43 AM
  Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Re: MIS VM Sepia and QTR


  > Reinier
  > you mentioned that you where using GIMP-PRINT 4.3.18
  > aka the "unstable release." did you actually use it
  > with QTR and was it compatible? and did you have any
  > crash or computer freakout issues with that release? i
  > have been using 4.2.5 on OSX, but the improvments you
  > noted and what i've read make 4.3.xx seem very
  > appealing. I wonder when 4.3 will be considered
  > considered "stable."
  > john Eckenrode

  The 4.3.21 is usable in Suse with QTR. It will not take long
  before the stable version is out I as I understand it so this
  version will be quite stable.

  Ernst



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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [Digital BW] Re: MIS VM Sepia and QTR

2003-10-31 by Ernst Dinkla

----- Original Message ----- 
Show quoted textHide quoted text
From: "Roger L Sopher" <rlsopher@...>
To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, October 31, 2003 1:34 PM
Subject: RE: [Digital BW] Re: MIS VM Sepia and QTR


> Hi Ernst,
>
> Could you elaborate on Gimp-Print 4.3.21 and QTR? Does this in
fact allow
> printing via a QTR driver from The Gimp?
>
> Roger

Roger,

No that isn't possible and it is a shame. It is the Gimp-print
plugin of Gimp that makes the trouble. I've contacted Robert
Krawitz of Gimp-print on that issue and asked him whether they
could integrate QTR into that plugin. They are busy to bring the
stable version of 4.3 now so he hasn't really answered that
request. They were not aware of a conflict though which is a
first step to solve it (one hopes). I'm wondering if a temporary
hack could make it possible.
Right now I'm using xpp in Suse to print from and that is not
what I like at all. But it prints with 4.3.21.

I'm checking some other Linux distributions that are leaner and
meaner than Suse. Coollinux with the ROX filing system boottable
from CD, Crux and Gobo Linux. Applications stored in one
directory etc. I'm more familiar with an OS like that to do some
digging in. In Suse I tend to start stripping first and that
doesn't work. There are about 3 printer managers in that
distribution even if you don't count Yast that can also
configurate the CUPS printers but not QTR. I hate KDE also.

Ernst, slow learner.

Re: [Digital BW] Re: MIS VM Sepia and QTR

2003-10-31 by Roger Sopher

On Fri, 2003-10-31 at 06:06, Ernst Dinkla wrote:

> 
> Roger,
> 
> No that isn't possible and it is a shame. It is the Gimp-print
> plugin of Gimp that makes the trouble. I've contacted Robert
> Krawitz of Gimp-print on that issue and asked him whether they
> could integrate QTR into that plugin. They are busy to bring the
> stable version of 4.3 now so he hasn't really answered that
> request. They were not aware of a conflict though which is a
> first step to solve it (one hopes). I'm wondering if a temporary
> hack could make it possible.
> Right now I'm using xpp in Suse to print from and that is not
> what I like at all. But it prints with 4.3.21.
> 
> I'm checking some other Linux distributions that are leaner and
> meaner than Suse. Coollinux with the ROX filing system boottable
> from CD, Crux and Gobo Linux. Applications stored in one
> directory etc. I'm more familiar with an OS like that to do some
> digging in. In Suse I tend to start stripping first and that
> doesn't work. There are about 3 printer managers in that
> distribution even if you don't count Yast that can also
> configurate the CUPS printers but not QTR. I hate KDE also.
> 
> Ernst, slow learner.
> 
Thats what I thought, but was afraid I had missed something. I have
pounded on the plug-in but there is a bug in it that doesn't allow
access via the ppd route. I saw a posting by Robert Krawitz in which he
said he was up to his ears in work. I think he and Roy Harrington have
communicated and maybe something will finally emerge.

I agree that most of the common Linux distros are a bit bloated. I have
a friend that uses freeBSD for that very reason but it is enough
different from Linux that I haven't been willing to put out the effort
to try it. It is capable of incredibly small installations - can be run
from a floppy in some cases.

Roger
> 
>

[Digital BW] Re: MIS VM Sepia and QTR

2003-11-01 by Roy Harrington

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Reinier van der Ryst" 
<rvdryst@t...> wrote:

> Why not go the whole way with the hextone printers - using the UT inks.

Hi Reinier,

For the newer 6 ink printers, I think that would work well.  But my older
7500 doesn't have variable dot sizes, so to get dotless grays I think
the three light,medium,dark grays are desirable.

> 
> Keep the three colours seperate, but add a little gray to them so that it
> makes up for not having a light gray. In this way you can combine two
> colours to get the tone you want. ( Y and m will give a sepia/brown
> and m and c will provide a blue.)
> 
> 16%  7600 Y   or   7600 M   or   7600 C
> 16%  7600 LK
> 68%  7600 Base
> (NB - The base is the 7600 base which is a light tea colour - NOT the
> colourless.)

Have you tried these dilutions?  They seem pretty dilute, my thought
would be to go with the standard yellow, light cyan and light magenta.
Putting gray ink in as well would require more ink to get color, so I'm
not sure that's necessary.

> 
> Then I suggest using it as follows:
> 
> Position       Ink
> K                UT-HEX-K  (Eboni)
> C                UT-HEX-C   (dark gray)
> M               UT-HEX-M   (middle gray)
> Y (y?)         light yellow - from above
> c                 light cyan - from above
> m                light magenta - from above
> 
> In this way you can have any tone - period. I think the gray mixed in with
> the colours would also tend to mask metamerism!?
> 
> Roy, can QTRip handle this without modification.

The internals can do it, but I'd probably have to add more toner
curves.

> 
> My teaching workload and my 1160 that stopped working kept me away
> from working on QTR. I had Gimp-print 4.3.18 going under Linux and was
> waiting for UT inks when my 1160 stopped. (The cost to fix it is more than
> half the price of a new 1160.) Within the next two weeks I hope to get a
> 1290 and the I want to go to Gimp-print 4.3.21 to get the new improvements.
> (See the attachment for the improvements that interest me.)

QTR uses its own gimp-print so just compiling and installing 4.3.21 would
have no effect.  I have been tweaking the version I have for some of the
same improvements.

> 
> Reinier van der Ryst
> 

Roy

Re: [Digital BW] Re: MIS VM Sepia and QTR

2003-11-01 by Reinier van der Ryst

> you mentioned that you where using GIMP-PRINT 4.3.18
> aka the "unstable release." did you actually use it
> with QTR and was it compatible? and did you have any
> crash or computer freakout issues with that release

John

I am using Debian and had to upgrade it to quite a lot with unstable
modules before it would even compile. It was however stable and I
could print with xpp, qtcups and gtklp without any problems.

I think, like Ernst, that the stable 4.3 is very near and it would be best
to wait for it. I just wanted to whet your appetites with its possibilities.
As soon as I get my new 1290 I am going to get 4.3.21 going.

Reinier

Re: [Digital BW] Re: MIS VM Sepia and QTR

2003-11-01 by john eckenrode

thanks reiner
apparantly roy is writing some of his own code too and
will post an updated QTR with a bunch of the same
improvements that 4.3 has. i have no idea when that
will happen but keep an eye open for that as well.
john

I am using Debian and had to upgrade it to quite a
> lot with unstable
> modules before it would even compile. It was however
> stable and I
> could print with xpp, qtcups and gtklp without any
> problems.
> 
> I think, like Ernst, that the stable 4.3 is very
> near and it would be best
> to wait for it. I just wanted to whet your appetites
> with its possibilities.
> As soon as I get my new 1290 I am going to get
> 4.3.21 going.
> 
> Reinier
> 
> 


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Re: [Digital BW] Re: MIS VM Sepia and QTR

2003-11-03 by Reinier van der Ryst

----- Original Message -----
Show quoted textHide quoted text
From: Roy Harrington <roy@...>
To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, October 31, 2003 5:53 PM
Subject: [Digital BW] Re: MIS VM Sepia and QTR


> >
> > Roy, can QTRip handle this without modification.
>
> The internals can do it, but I'd probably have to add more toner
> curves.
>
Hi Roy,

Does the existing QTRb8 support two toner curves so that I can get started
with Y and M toners?

> QTR uses its own gimp-print so just compiling and installing 4.3.21 would
> have no effect.  I have been tweaking the version I have for some of the
> same improvements.
>
Thank you. Which Gimp-print version must I install in Linux for QTR to work?

Reinier

[Digital BW] Re: MIS VM Sepia and QTR

2003-11-03 by Roy Harrington

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Reinier van der Ryst" 
<rvdryst@t...> wrote:
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Roy Harrington <roy@h...>
> To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Friday, October 31, 2003 5:53 PM
> Subject: [Digital BW] Re: MIS VM Sepia and QTR
> 
> 
> > > Keep the three colours seperate, but add a little gray to them so that
> it
> > > makes up for not having a light gray. In this way you can combine two
> > > colours to get the tone you want. ( Y and m will give a sepia/brown
> > > and m and c will provide a blue.)
> > >
> > > 16%  7600 Y   or   7600 M   or   7600 C
> > > 16%  7600 LK
> > > 68%  7600 Base
> > > (NB - The base is the 7600 base which is a light tea colour - NOT the
> > > colourless.)
> >
> > Have you tried these dilutions?  They seem pretty dilute, my thought
> > would be to go with the standard yellow, light cyan and light magenta.
> > Putting gray ink in as well would require more ink to get color, so I'm
> > not sure that's necessary.
> >
> Roy,
> 
> No I have not tried the dilutions. I have however again communicated
> with Paul Roark and his recommendation for a sepia toner remains
> 8%    7600 Yellow
> 8%    7600 Magenta
> 30%  UT light gray
> 54%  7600 Base
> 
> It is from that that I suggested my dilutions. However the 7600 colour
> inks are diluted by MIS for use as UT. I agree with you to leave the
> gray ink out of the mix and just let QTR take care of it. I'll probably
> off with a 50% dilution of the 7600 inks and see where it goes.
> 
> Thanks for your input.
> 
> Reinier

I see.  Paul has the additional requirement that he has to match with
what the Epson drivers do -- i.e. there's no control of  individual ink limits.

I'm not too sure what would be the best dilution to use.  I don't think
it's too critical, you'll just get different ink limits.  It's interesting to
note that Paul's formula has an equal amount of full strength M and Y.

Roy

Re: [Digital BW] Re: MIS VM Sepia and QTR

2003-11-03 by Reinier van der Ryst

----- Original Message -----
Show quoted textHide quoted text
From: Roy Harrington <roy@...>
To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, October 31, 2003 5:53 PM
Subject: [Digital BW] Re: MIS VM Sepia and QTR


> > Keep the three colours seperate, but add a little gray to them so that
it
> > makes up for not having a light gray. In this way you can combine two
> > colours to get the tone you want. ( Y and m will give a sepia/brown
> > and m and c will provide a blue.)
> >
> > 16%  7600 Y   or   7600 M   or   7600 C
> > 16%  7600 LK
> > 68%  7600 Base
> > (NB - The base is the 7600 base which is a light tea colour - NOT the
> > colourless.)
>
> Have you tried these dilutions?  They seem pretty dilute, my thought
> would be to go with the standard yellow, light cyan and light magenta.
> Putting gray ink in as well would require more ink to get color, so I'm
> not sure that's necessary.
>
Roy,

No I have not tried the dilutions. I have however again communicated
with Paul Roark and his recommendation for a sepia toner remains
8%    7600 Yellow
8%    7600 Magenta
30%  UT light gray
54%  7600 Base

It is from that that I suggested my dilutions. However the 7600 colour
inks are diluted by MIS for use as UT. I agree with you to leave the
gray ink out of the mix and just let QTR take care of it. I'll probably
off with a 50% dilution of the 7600 inks and see where it goes.

Thanks for your input.

Reinier

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