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RE: [Digital BW] Ink Placement in Quad systems was Re:

RE: [Digital BW] Ink Placement in Quad systems was Re:

2001-10-08 by Alessandro Pardi

Grady,
 
I don't know, too. Yet I think that you need some workflow to print with
quads, whatever the ink position is. I made this very simple experiment: I
created an image in Photoshop with three patches of 100% Cyan, 100% Magenta
and 100% Yellow (image in CMYK mode), and then changed the mode to
grayscale. Now Cyan reads 41% gray, Magenta 55% gray and Yellow 7% gray. I
don't know how the Epson driver mixes CMYK inks in order to get different
shades of gray, and I don't know if these inks are 100% C, M and Y, either,
yet I can't think of an easy way to match 7% to 25%, 41% to 50% and 55% to
75%. Remember that it's not enough to have an acceptable print, what we're
after is a close as possible match between monitor and print (and you also
have the advantage of less visible dots if you separate inks).
 
Regards,
Alessandro Pardi
Show quoted textHide quoted text
 -----Original Message-----
From: Martin Wesley [mailto:mwesley250@...]
Sent: lunedì 8 ottobre 2001 08.44
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Digital BW] Ink Placement in Quad systems was Re:



Grady,

I have no idea. Perhaps some of the people who have been at this 
longer have an explaination. The only think that occures to me is 
that they may have wanted to be sure that the lighter grey inks 
always fell on top of the darker ones but this is a shot in the dark.

Martin

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., gradycarter@y... wrote:
 >  Therefore, getting back 
> to the subject of ink placement in the cartridges, I wondered 
> whether or not anyone has tried to place the inks in their proper 
> place according to the corresponding shade of the colored inks. 
> Why has the ink companies decided to place these inks in such 
> a random order.  <snip> 



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

RE: [Digital BW] Ink Placement in Quad systems was Re:

2001-10-08 by grady carter

Alessandro,
Thank you for responding to the SHADE OF GREY matching
to the corresponding COLOR INK. Your idea of writing a
program to those ink positions is intriguing.
Hopefully when you get your inks, I will be
cheerleading in your corner for success. I have
achieved that success of what I see on my monitor is
what is printed out on my printer. I do believe in
your case, that quadtones in duotone section of
photoshop, is the place to deal with greyscale
placement. Please understand, I am not patting myself
on the back here. Putting the inks in the right place
in the color cartridge is the way to go to get very
predictable results for both greyscale images or color
images. I can't wait until someone else tries my
method to see if they will be getting the same
results...Believe me, it works great...

--- Alessandro Pardi <alessandro.pardi@...>
wrote:
> Grady,
>  
> I don't know, too. Yet I think that you need some
> workflow to print with
> quads, whatever the ink position is. I made this
> very simple experiment: I
> created an image in Photoshop with three patches of
> 100% Cyan, 100% Magenta
> and 100% Yellow (image in CMYK mode), and then
> changed the mode to
> grayscale. Now Cyan reads 41% gray, Magenta 55% gray
> and Yellow 7% gray. I
> don't know how the Epson driver mixes CMYK inks in
> order to get different
> shades of gray, and I don't know if these inks are
> 100% C, M and Y, either,
> yet I can't think of an easy way to match 7% to 25%,
> 41% to 50% and 55% to
> 75%. Remember that it's not enough to have an
> acceptable print, what we're
> after is a close as possible match between monitor
> and print (and you also
> have the advantage of less visible dots if you
> separate inks).
>  
> Regards,
> Alessandro Pardi
>  
>  -----Original Message-----
> From: Martin Wesley
> [mailto:mwesley250@...]
> Sent: luned\ufffd 8 ottobre 2001 08.44
> To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Digital BW] Ink Placement in Quad systems
> was Re:
> 
> 
> 
> Grady,
> 
> I have no idea. Perhaps some of the people who have
> been at this 
> longer have an explaination. The only think that
> occures to me is 
> that they may have wanted to be sure that the
> lighter grey inks 
> always fell on top of the darker ones but this is a
> shot in the dark.
> 
> Martin
> 
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y...,
> gradycarter@y... wrote:
>  >  Therefore, getting back 
> > to the subject of ink placement in the cartridges,
> I wondered 
> > whether or not anyone has tried to place the inks
> in their proper 
> > place according to the corresponding shade of the
> colored inks. 
> > Why has the ink companies decided to place these
> inks in such 
> > a random order.  <snip> 
> 
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been
> removed]
> 
> 


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[Digital BW] Ink Placement in Quad systems was Re:

2001-10-08 by Tyler Boley

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., grady carter <
gradycarter@y...> wrote:
> images. I can't wait until someone else tries my
> method to see if they will be getting the same
> results...Believe me, it works great...

It seems impossible for me to keep up with all the ideas here. I just 
wanted to say, in support of your efforts, that this idea is one of 
the central issues in Allen's approach with the Spectratones. Reverse 
engineering what the Epson driver is doing with respect to what 
densities are being delivered by which colors by the driver, then 
having mono ink densities in the right order to best advantage it 
seems to work well for them. Less so for 4 color printers, where more 
severe manipulations are required to eliminate dots.
Tyler

RE: [Digital BW] Ink Placement in Quad systems was Re:

2001-10-09 by Alessandro Pardi

Grady,

thanks for you support. I never had any cheerleader before (are you cute?
<g>). I'll let you know as soon as I have any news about it.
BTW, what printer are you printing on? This may make a big difference, the
same difference I experienced between Nevins and Brandin workflows on my
1160: both reliable, but Nevins' didn't partition inks, and that was visible
in the higlights (e.g. bright skies). I guess this isn't a matter (or, at
least, to a much lesser extent) on 6-inks printers.

Alex


> -----Original Message-----
> From: grady carter [mailto:gradycarter@...]
> Sent: lunedì 8 ottobre 2001 20.03
> To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: RE: [Digital BW] Ink Placement in Quad systems was Re:
> 
> 
> Alessandro,
> Thank you for responding to the SHADE OF GREY matching
> to the corresponding COLOR INK. Your idea of writing a
> program to those ink positions is intriguing.
> Hopefully when you get your inks, I will be
> cheerleading in your corner for success. I have
> achieved that success of what I see on my monitor is
> what is printed out on my printer. I do believe in
> your case, that quadtones in duotone section of
> photoshop, is the place to deal with greyscale
> placement. Please understand, I am not patting myself
> on the back here. Putting the inks in the right place
> in the color cartridge is the way to go to get very
> predictable results for both greyscale images or color
> images. I can't wait until someone else tries my
> method to see if they will be getting the same
> results...Believe me, it works great...
> 
> --- Alessandro Pardi <alessandro.pardi@...>
> wrote:
> > Grady,
> >  
> > I don't know, too. Yet I think that you need some
> > workflow to print with
> > quads, whatever the ink position is. I made this
> > very simple experiment: I
> > created an image in Photoshop with three patches of
> > 100% Cyan, 100% Magenta
> > and 100% Yellow (image in CMYK mode), and then
> > changed the mode to
> > grayscale. Now Cyan reads 41% gray, Magenta 55% gray
> > and Yellow 7% gray. I
> > don't know how the Epson driver mixes CMYK inks in
> > order to get different
> > shades of gray, and I don't know if these inks are
> > 100% C, M and Y, either,
> > yet I can't think of an easy way to match 7% to 25%,
> > 41% to 50% and 55% to
> > 75%. Remember that it's not enough to have an
> > acceptable print, what we're
> > after is a close as possible match between monitor
> > and print (and you also
> > have the advantage of less visible dots if you
> > separate inks).
> >  
> > Regards,
> > Alessandro Pardi
> >  
> >  -----Original Message-----
> > From: Martin Wesley
> > [mailto:mwesley250@earthlink.net]
> > Sent: lunedì 8 ottobre 2001 08.44
> > To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: [Digital BW] Ink Placement in Quad systems
> > was Re:
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > Grady,
> > 
> > I have no idea. Perhaps some of the people who have
> > been at this 
> > longer have an explaination. The only think that
> > occures to me is 
> > that they may have wanted to be sure that the
> > lighter grey inks 
> > always fell on top of the darker ones but this is a
> > shot in the dark.
> > 
> > Martin
> > 
> > --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y...,
> > gradycarter@y... wrote:
> >  >  Therefore, getting back 
> > > to the subject of ink placement in the cartridges,
> > I wondered 
> > > whether or not anyone has tried to place the inks
> > in their proper 
> > > place according to the corresponding shade of the
> > colored inks. 
> > > Why has the ink companies decided to place these
> > inks in such 
> > > a random order.  <snip> 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been
> > removed]
> > 
> > 
> 
> 
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