Digital BW, The Print

Here's what the mind numbing reseach has told me so far:



Canon i9100:

4800X1200

13X19  (can't find info on any banner type printing)

Cost $428.00 w/free ship Amazon.com

Super good looking glossy very bright colors

Decent looking B&W with stock ink set but will have some metamerism

Cheaper to feed then Epson

Wilhelm Research says 38 years with right Canon paper???

FAST FAST FAST



Epson 2200

2880x1440

13X19 (13X44 banner printing)

Cost $652.00 w/free shipping Amazon.com

Glossy not so great Matte excellent duller colors then the Canon
printer reason the long life pigmented inks

7 inks Very good B&W with a second Photo black ink. Some metamerism with 
stock ink. Works better with a RIP program $$$$

 Lots of inkset options for B&W but not to switch between B&W and color only 
one or
the other

More to feed then Canon

Wilhelm Research says 70+ years with right Epson paper

NOT FAST


So the Epson is $230.00 more costs more to feed prints lasts twice as long as 
long as they are with Epson matte finish paper and duller colors better B&W 
and more third party options for ink and ink feeding systems. And larger paper 
(a note with third party papers unless certin brands and types are used types 
same lifespan as Canon i9100 or even worse)

The Canon is cheaper faster brighter works on glossy or matte paper makes 
pretty good B&W with stock inkset Lasts as long as I will (46+38=84 years old and 
with my youth no way will I make it longer LOL)  B&W is limited due to the 
single black cart. (Peizography is supposed to be coming out with a special B&W 
ink set soon I'm trying to learn more about that. But then it
is like with the Epson B&W or COLOR no switching back and forth)

So that's were I'm at guys trying to decide between two different
printers both of which do part of what I really want.

I want super bright color glossy or Matte prints full frame at
12"X18" for display in glassed frames. I don't want to have to redue them 
every five to ten years.

I want a good looking inkjet version of B&W that with some work I can have a 
warm tone a cool tone and a sepia look tone to my B&W prints.


As I write this I'm really starting to think I should look for two
seperate printer systems one for color one for B&W. Not that I  think I can 
afford two 13X19 printers. Not to mention feed them.

The Canon for bright color prints with the least cost and satifactory life.

An Epson #???? for A quad tone type B&W system maybe a Pizeogaphy system as I 
read it as an out of the box complete system. and I am willing to give up 
that last 5% for a simpler approch.


So am I anywhere near correct with my findings or still swimming in circles 
here.

Mark W.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

If  you are considering the $ outlay of a 2200, given your priorities, 
here's my suggestion.

Go with two printers..

1)    Get a Canon S9000 for bright dye-based colors (approx $230 - $250) 
- if you want even longer printlife than the OEM inks and no fear of 
Orange Fade, look at the Lyson Fotonics and  MediaStreet TruMatch inks 
for use in the 9000..  The S9000 is essentially the same printer as the 
i9100 (they use EXACTLY the same printhead).. ONLY the i950 got the 
smaller nozzle size printhead..

2)   Get a new or refurbed 1280 (about $220-$300) for B&W, when the UT v 
2 inkset is ready.. That should be a matter of weeks..  Use the Roark 
curves for printing..

No need for RIPS then..

I STRONGLY recommend spending $ on a profiling package for monitor and 
printer as well.. Personally, my current recommendation is the Spyder 
Pro package for monitor profiling and Profile Prism for printer 
profiling.  That'll let you cut the OEM umbilical cord on papers and 
inks with the Canon..  You'll save your investment costs in the 
profiling software/hardware very quickly..


 
Keith Krebs

"Just some guy," and caretaker of the Multiverse's largest EPSON printer 
User Community (highly recommended by Vogon Poets and MegaDodo 
Publications), at:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/EPSON_Printers/
 
"For the rest of you out there, the secret is to bang the rocks together 
guys"

awahlster@... wrote:
> I want super bright color glossy or Matte prints full frame at
> 12"X18" for display in glassed frames. I don't want to have to redue
> them
> every five to ten years.

Do you hang the same prints on your walls for more than 1 year? I change my
prints every 6-12 months, at least. I dont really understand that people
emphathize the archival aspect so much. In an album/ scrap book it should
not be an issue anyway, and who hangs prints on a wall longer as 30 years?
Seems a bit absurd to me.

> An Epson #???? for A quad tone type B&W system maybe a Pizeogaphy
> system as I
> read it as an out of the box complete system. and I am willing to
> give up
> that last 5% for a simpler approch.

But you know how much more expensive Piezo is than MIS? I guess it must be
factor 10 or so at least.

Canon should be ok for color, I bought the 2100 at ebay 2 days ago, I will
try to find out what it is to work with this printer.... My 1160 for BW (MIS
UT) will stay here anyway.

regards, Bernie

Sage advise I'm starting the think that two printers is about my only 
choice to get what I really want. I may be able to adjust my required 
print size down to what an A4 printer will handle there by allowing 
the budget to cover two printers with the same image quality as the 
2200 and or i9100 but for the cost of one. All of this info is 
greatly appreciated and consumed as fast as I can get it.

Mark W.


--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Editor P.O.V. 
Image Service" <editor@p...> wrote:
> If  you are considering the $ outlay of a 2200, given your 
priorities, 
> here's my suggestion.
> 
> Go with two printers..
> 
> 1)    Get a Canon S9000 for bright dye-based colors (approx $230 - 
$250) 
> - if you want even longer printlife than the OEM inks and no fear 
of 
> Orange Fade, look at the Lyson Fotonics and  MediaStreet TruMatch 
inks 
> for use in the 9000..  The S9000 is essentially the same printer as 
the 
> i9100 (they use EXACTLY the same printhead).. ONLY the i950 got the 
> smaller nozzle size printhead..
> 
> 2)   Get a new or refurbed 1280 (about $220-$300) for B&W, when the 
UT v 
> 2 inkset is ready.. That should be a matter of weeks..  Use the 
Roark 
> curves for printing..
> 
> No need for RIPS then..
> 
> I STRONGLY recommend spending $ on a profiling package for monitor 
and 
> printer as well.. Personally, my current recommendation is the 
Spyder 
> Pro package for monitor profiling and Profile Prism for printer 
> profiling.  That'll let you cut the OEM umbilical cord on papers 
and 
> inks with the Canon..  You'll save your investment costs in the 
> profiling software/hardware very quickly..
> 
> 
>  
> Keith Krebs
> 
> "Just some guy," and caretaker of the Multiverse's largest EPSON 
printer 
> User Community (highly recommended by Vogon Poets and MegaDodo 
> Publications), at:
> 
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/EPSON_Printers/
>  
> "For the rest of you out there, the secret is to bang the rocks 
together 
> guys"

I must have been lucky.  I've never spent a dime on profiling my monitor.  And, since I started using Imageprint it's never been an issue.  I just use the package that is shipped with Photoshop.  I've even had to get a replacement monitor because mine quit.  Same make and model, under warranty, from NEC.  It woked right out of the box with the same profile.  So, at least try it without the additional expense for the monitor profile stuff.  You may end up needing it, but give a shot first.
 
Tom Baker

awahlster <awahlster@...> wrote:
Sage advise I'm starting the think that two printers is about my only 
choice to get what I really want. I may be able to adjust my required 
print size down to what an A4 printer will handle there by allowing 
the budget to cover two printers with the same image quality as the 
2200 and or i9100 but for the cost of one. All of this info is 
greatly appreciated and consumed as fast as I can get it.

Mark W.


--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Editor P.O.V. 
Image Service" <editor@p...> wrote:
> If  you are considering the $ outlay of a 2200, given your 
priorities, 
> here's my suggestion.
> 
> Go with two printers..
> 
> 1)    Get a Canon S9000 for bright dye-based colors (approx $230 - 
$250) 
> - if you want even longer printlife than the OEM inks and no fear 
of 
> Orange Fade, look at the Lyson Fotonics and  MediaStreet TruMatch 
inks 
> for use in the 9000..  The S9000 is essentially the same printer as 
the 
> i9100 (they use EXACTLY the same printhead).. ONLY the i950 got the 
> smaller nozzle size printhead..
> 
> 2)   Get a new or refurbed 1280 (about $220-$300) for B&W, when the 
UT v 
> 2 inkset is ready.. That should be a matter of weeks..  Use the 
Roark 
> curves for printing..
> 
> No need for RIPS then..
> 
> I STRONGLY recommend spending $ on a profiling package for monitor 
and 
> printer as well.. Personally, my current recommendation is the 
Spyder 
> Pro package for monitor profiling and Profile Prism for printer 
> profiling.  That'll let you cut the OEM umbilical cord on papers 
and 
> inks with the Canon..  You'll save your investment costs in the 
> profiling software/hardware very quickly..
> 
> 
>  
> Keith Krebs
> 
> "Just some guy," and caretaker of the Multiverse's largest EPSON 
printer 
> User Community (highly recommended by Vogon Poets and MegaDodo 
> Publications), at:
> 
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/EPSON_Printers/
>  
> "For the rest of you out there, the secret is to bang the rocks 
together 
> guys"


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, awahlster@a... wrote:
>
> So am I anywhere near correct with my findings or still swimming in circles 
> here.
> 
> Mark W.
> 
> 

I think you are correct, it's an imperfect world. From what I gather based on your post 
I think your best bet is to find a reliable shop or maybe 2 (one specialized in B&W, 
one in color) give them your digital images and let them sort it out. From my own 
experience digital printing, like photography in general, requires a great deal of 
experimentation, flexibility (as in, this is not what I expected but it looks good 
enough to take it from here) and enough passion to keep you going.
I only do B&W (color is a different trade) and am fine with an Epson 1280, Ultratone 
inks, good paper and a trained eye. Your approach seems very rational and you seem 
to be set on what the output should look like, down to the framing. I doubt based on 
my reading of your post, that you will find pleasure in the unavoidable setbacks (and 
expenses) related to home printing. If I'm wrong then just start with an inexpensive 
Epson and decide later when you gain more experience, advice on the best printing 
approach is same as for the best film developer.

Andu