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More Easy B&W Questions

More Easy B&W Questions

2003-12-03 by marthaabelson

Paul Roark, you sound like a saint! I shoot with a Canon 10D and 
have been struggling to make good b&w pictures for 6 months with my 
Epson 2200, somewhat hampered by using Photoshop Elements rather 
than the real thing, but more severely limited (so it seems) by the 
inherent funkiness of the Epson inks. I had been thinking of biting 
the bullet and upgrading to Photoshop 7  or the new PS CS8 so I 
could try BO printing via the Clayton Jones method, or also buying a 
1280 so I could try your workflows. But new PS+new printer=$$$$ Then 
I read of your forthcoming Easy B&W system! A few questions: 1) will 
I be able to continue to print pictures through Elements? I also 
have (but don't use) Microsoft Picture It 2) I currently do b&w 
conversions through an Elements plug-in by Silver Oxide. Can I 
continue to work this way, or is that an entirely unrelated issue 
(sorry I'm so remedial) 3) I am unclear whether these new ink sets 
will be available for both the C82 and the 1280 printers. Most of my 
prints are 8x10 and smaller, but I am not against buying either 
printer... 4) when can I sell my 2200? (just kidding...maybe...) 
Thanks so much!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Re: [Digital BW] More Easy B&W Questions

2003-12-03 by Tom Baker

I don't know what you mean when you say the Ultrachrome inks are 'funky'. They are actually quite exceptional.  It's the Epson drivers that are 'funky', especially for b&w.  Don't confuse the root of the problem, because it will hinder your search for an printing solution that suits you needs. That's not to say that switching the inks isn't the most economical solution for b&w only printing on the 2200.
 
Tom Baker

marthaabelson <mabelson@hotmail.com> wrote:
Paul Roark, you sound like a saint! I shoot with a Canon 10D and 
have been struggling to make good b&w pictures for 6 months with my 
Epson 2200, somewhat hampered by using Photoshop Elements rather 
than the real thing, but more severely limited (so it seems) by the 
inherent funkiness of the Epson inks. I had been thinking of biting 
the bullet and upgrading to Photoshop 7  or the new PS CS8 so I 
could try BO printing via the Clayton Jones method, or also buying a 
1280 so I could try your workflows. But new PS+new printer=$$$$ Then 
I read of your forthcoming Easy B&W system! A few questions: 1) will 
I be able to continue to print pictures through Elements? I also 
have (but don't use) Microsoft Picture It 2) I currently do b&w 
conversions through an Elements plug-in by Silver Oxide. Can I 
continue to work this way, or is that an entirely unrelated issue 
(sorry I'm so remedial) 3) I am unclear whether these new ink sets 
will be available for both the C82 and the 1280 printers. Most of my 
prints are 8x10 and smaller, but I am not against buying either 
printer... 4) when can I sell my 2200? (just kidding...maybe...) 
Thanks so much!!!!!!!!!!!!!



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Re: [Digital BW] More Easy B&W Questions

2003-12-03 by marthaabelson

What I mean by "funky" is different color casts under different 
light conditions (i.e neutral in my office, green-ish in bright 
light). I am admittedly confused about all the underlying issues but 
would like to make my pictures the best they can be with the minimal 
incremental expense. 



--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Tom Baker 
<tbaker1328@s...> wrote:
> I don't know what you mean when you say the Ultrachrome inks 
are 'funky'. They are actually quite exceptional.  It's the Epson 
drivers that are 'funky', especially for b&w.  Don't confuse the 
root of the problem, because it will hinder your search for an 
printing solution that suits you needs. That's not to say that 
switching the inks isn't the most economical solution for b&w only 
printing on the 2200.
>  
> Tom Baker
> 
> marthaabelson <mabelson@h...> wrote:
> Paul Roark, you sound like a saint! I shoot with a Canon 10D and 
> have been struggling to make good b&w pictures for 6 months with 
my 
> Epson 2200, somewhat hampered by using Photoshop Elements rather 
> than the real thing, but more severely limited (so it seems) by 
the 
> inherent funkiness of the Epson inks. I had been thinking of 
biting 
> the bullet and upgrading to Photoshop 7  or the new PS CS8 so I 
> could try BO printing via the Clayton Jones method, or also buying 
a 
> 1280 so I could try your workflows. But new PS+new printer=$$$$ 
Then 
> I read of your forthcoming Easy B&W system! A few questions: 1) 
will 
> I be able to continue to print pictures through Elements? I also 
> have (but don't use) Microsoft Picture It 2) I currently do b&w 
> conversions through an Elements plug-in by Silver Oxide. Can I 
> continue to work this way, or is that an entirely unrelated issue 
> (sorry I'm so remedial) 3) I am unclear whether these new ink sets 
> will be available for both the C82 and the 1280 printers. Most of 
my 
> prints are 8x10 and smaller, but I am not against buying either 
> printer... 4) when can I sell my 2200? (just kidding...maybe...) 
> Thanks so much!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> 
> 
> 
> Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other 
resources as they are often being updated.
> 
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> 
> If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you 
wish to unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by 
visiting this same page.
> 
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages 
to keep them short.
> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or 
flames. Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed 
from the membership without notice.
> - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of 
digital B&W printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts 
may be removed from the membership.
> - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules 
and guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the 
group Owner and Moderators. See "Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines" 
in the Files section:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/
> 
> BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE 
PRINT YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT 
THE "OWNER" AND "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP 
SHALL NOT BE LIABLE TO YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, 
SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT 
LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR 
OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE  "OWNER" AND "MODERATORS" OF 
DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE 
POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE 
INABILITY TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) 
UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; 
(iii) STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, 
THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER MATTER RELATING TO THE 
DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP.
> 
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of 
Service. 
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: More Easy B&W Questions

2003-12-03 by flyfishingusa2002

I have a very similar setup to you. I'm afraid that upgrading to PS 
7 or CS is not the answer to you B/W printing problems. It will make 
converting your RAW files much easier though. It's pretty simple to 
obtain a decent B/W rgb with PS CS though. All you need to do is 
reduce the saturation to zero and play with the other controls until 
you get a decent image on your screen. But please remember that you 
need to have a decent monitor with hardware calibration.

I solved the B/W propblem on the 2200, after trying the Epson Grey 
Balancer, by buying a MAC system and intstalling Roy Harrington's 
QTR. QTR is FREE. I doubt if any other software could improve on 
QTR. You can of course spend money, at least $500 on a RiP for you 
PC. Something that I might do if I could get the ImagePrint demo to 
work!
Stick with the 2200, you will be amazed at the B/W that it can 
print, let alone the color. The only problem that I have with the 
2200 is the costs of inks. I'm about to try refilling myself with 
the MIS compatible product.


Please search through this forum, because much of this has been 
discussed at length many times before.

Sierra Gold
> Paul Roark, you sound like a saint! I shoot with a Canon 10D and 
> have been struggling to make good b&w pictures for 6 months with 
my 
> Epson 2200, somewhat hampered by using Photoshop Elements rather 
> than the real thing, but more severely limited (so it seems) by 
the 
> inherent funkiness of the Epson inks. I had been thinking of 
biting 
> the bullet and upgrading to Photoshop 7  or the new PS CS8 so I 
> could try BO printing via the Clayton Jones method, or also buying 
a 
> 1280 so I could try your workflows. But new PS+new printer=$$$$ 
Then 
> I read of your forthcoming Easy B&W system! A few questions: 1) 
will 
> I be able to continue to print pictures through Elements? I also 
> have (but don't use) Microsoft Picture It 2) I currently do b&w 
> conversions through an Elements plug-in by Silver Oxide. Can I 
> continue to work this way, or is that an entirely unrelated issue 
> (sorry I'm so remedial) 3) I am unclear whether these new ink sets 
> will be available for both the C82 and the 1280 printers. Most of 
my 
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> prints are 8x10 and smaller, but I am not against buying either 
> printer... 4) when can I sell my 2200? (just kidding...maybe...) 
> Thanks so much!!!!!!!!!!!!!

RE: [Digital BW] More Easy B&W Questions

2003-12-03 by Paul Roark

>...been struggling to make good b&w pictures for 6 months with my 
>Epson 2200, ...
>I had been thinking of ... upgrading to Photoshop 7  or ... CS8 ...

That is not the problem.  Even with the 2200, you can't get good B&W prints
with color ink.  The RIPs like ImagePrint do it by running the light black
all the way up into the highlights and then adding just enough cyan and
magenta to neutralize the inherently warm carbon-based black pigment.

The choice is a B&W inkset (aka "quad" inkset) or a RIP for the 2200.

>... But new PS+new printer=$$$$ 
>Then I read of your forthcoming Easy B&W system!

It's MIS (www.inksupply.com) that sells the inks -- not me.  I just come up
with formulas for inksets that I or my friends want and give them to MIS (in
exchange for free ink supplies).

>1) will I be able to continue to print pictures through Elements?

Yes.  Any image editor will do.  I've even printed images from Word.

However, with the "UT-2" inkset I've recently designed, while it is "Easy"
and even variable-tone via the Driver sliders, even more can be had from it
if Photoshop curves are used.  The affordable way to be able to use these
curves is Picture Window -- $50 for the cheap version, $100 for the Pro,
16-bit version.  But there is no need to buy anything now.

>2) I currently do b&w conversions through an Elements plug-in 
>by Silver Oxide. Can I continue to work this way, or is that an 
>entirely unrelated issue (sorry I'm so remedial)

It is probably mostly unrelated. 

> 3) I am unclear whether these new ink sets 
>will be available for both the C82 and the 1280 printers.

There will be version for both.  The "Easy B&W" for the 1280 will probably
by my "UT-2," which is both easy and extremely versatile.  I don't know when
MIS will be mixing and selling it, though.

Good luck.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com

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