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Black and Light Black printing (was Bauhaus Crash?)

Black and Light Black printing (was Bauhaus Crash?)

2003-12-21 by evangdoun

As I mentioned earlier, I have experimented with a two color Black and
White profile using Bauhaus IJC.  Starting with using Epson Matte
Black and Light Black only I merely dropped all other inks in the EEM
profile and linearized with IJC.

Using Moab Entrada 300 Gm. paper in the Epson 2200, the results are
rather pleasing. As expected, the tone approaches sepia, but with the
sunlit image of an antique market, the tone seems appropriate.
Compared with the same image using all seven inks with a profile for
Epson Enhanced Matte, there is very little difference under a 10x
loupe in highlight dots or apparent resolution. Tomorrow I will look
at the print in sunlight and see if there is any metamerism, as well
as print the image as BO through the Epson driver.

I look forward to repeating the experiment with Eboni to see if the
tone comes closer to neutral as reported by Clayton Jones. Over all it
may have the advantage of Black Only (no metamerism) with smoother
highlights due to the light black. Of course this may depend on what's
in the light black.


As good as the IJC profiles are, I can see some shift to green under
gallery Halogens with all seven inks compared to daylight.


Angelo Dounoucos

Black and Light Black printing (was Bauhaus Crash?)

2003-12-21 by adounoucos@aol.com

Yesterday I wrote:

Using Moab Entrada 300 Gm. paper in the Epson 2200, the results are
rather pleasing. As expected, the tone approaches sepia, but with the
sunlit image of an antique market, the tone seems appropriate.
Compared with the same image using all seven inks with a profile for
Epson Enhanced Matte, there is very little difference under a 10x
loupe in highlight dots or apparent resolution. Tomorrow I will look
at the print in sunlight and see if there is any metamerism, as well
as print the image as BO through the Epson driver.
   -----------------------------------------------------------------------

This morning I printed the image as black only with Epson UC matte black and 
find that the image is much coarser under the loupe than either the normal 
seven color print or the two color black and light black, but still looks fine at 
arms length.   The color is still brown but much closer to neutral than the 
2-color print.   Clearly the light black is adding a considerable brown element 
to the mix.   Max density is 1.62 +/-0.01 on an x-rite 810 after drying on 
all three wedge tests.

Now to do the Eboni black 2-color version and see if the two color idea has 
any useful merit over straight Black only.

This may all be academic as IJC allows wonderful profiles to be created with 
any number of inks up to seven, but it has been an interesting exercise.   IJC 
linearization does give separation in all 26 steps of the wedge, and a much 
more consistent group of prints using seven colors.

Cheers and thanks to all,

Angelo Dounoucos   



                                                                              
       




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Re: Black and Light Black printing with IJC OPM

2003-12-21 by Antonis Ricos

Angelo,

I don't think you ever got an answer to your original question below, so here are 
some pointers.


[....
However I am an novice at creating profiles using their software and a
 densitometer. Is there anything like a primer on getting started making curves?
...]


Unfortunately not - for now, the best advice is to load an existing profile (you may 
have seen some in our files section) and tweak from there. 
An important shortcut for toning on the 2200 is that you can vary the ink limits as a 
way to increase or decrease the effect of the toning inks. If you load a profile that 
tries to produce a neutral print by adding magenta and cyan, you can simply go up or 
down on the ink limits without messing with curve points.
Also, since you have an X-Rite 810, you can pretty much take any existing profile for 
the 2200, linearize it and you are good to go. 
If you like sepia, take a look at my extreme sepia profile in our group files here. It 
deliberately uses yellow to go even warmer than the gray ink. You can linearize that 
as well as a neutral profile and then freely move beetween the two by using the 
blender function in OPM. Again, you are spared the complexity of the curves if you 
are not comfortable using them.



[.......
Thought I'd start with trying to
 make a near black only curve by adding light black for the 2200 in the spirit
 of Clayton Jones. I expect the result would be very warm, but it might be a
 way to learn the ropes.
....]


I remember making a black only profile last spring - it may still be in the files, if not, 
let me know and I may be able to dig it up. It's not a bad way to learn the ropes as 
you say.


 [........
 Looking at the seven-ink curves, they seem to have wonderful swooping
 transitions from one ink to another. Am looking for a guiding rational behind
 all of this.
.....]


The principle - which applies to all software that tries to partition the gray scale 
across several gray inks - is that you try to use the lightest possible ink for a given 
density in the gray scale. And the reason for that is that you want to minimize the 
device dots as much as possible. 

So, for example, starting from the lightest step in the scale, you use the lightest of 
gray inks (yellow-position in dedicated bw systems, or the light gray in the 2200). It 
makes the dots at those densities hard to see - as you have found out by using black 
only and seeing how prominent the dots are then. 
But as you get further down the scale, the light gray ink will obviously not be able to 
keep up with the needed density. So, another ink is brought in. In the case of the 
2200 with OEM inks, that's the black. In dedicated systems, that can be the magenta-
position ink. 
At this transition, you have a few dots of the darker ink kicking in at the same time 
that you have near 100% of the lighter ink "on top" of them.  So, even though those 
dots would be visible by themselves, they are masked by the previous ink. Further 
down the scale, the lighter ink is phased out as the middle-gray ink takes over. 

Remember what you saw in the black-only scale: Dots are most distracting at the 
lower percentages (0-10%). As you get towards the middle (50%), they look more like 
fine grain (the dither has the effect of a mezzotint). So as the middle ink takes over 
the middle of the scale, its dots are less visible. This is not an option with the 2200, 
so you have to rely on hiding the beginning of the black ink under a sufficient density 
of the gray ink. Thankfully the device dots for the 2200 are small enough that you 
can get away with that. But to some, a middle gray would still be desirable.

As you then appproach the black end of the scale, you have to bring in the black and 
make sure it gets to 100% intensity at the 100% mark of the scale. That much is self-
evident. 
What is not as intuitive, however, is that you have to cut back on the other inks at that 
point, or else your paper will be taking too much liquid and the black will not go 
down in full intensity. That is why you see the curves for the other inks "swooping" 
down before they get to the 100% mark. That makes everything but the black ink 
have a bell shaped curve (though they're not as symmetrical as a real bell shape).
Systems with 3-4 grays deal with this end a little different than the 2200 - allowing 
some cyan-position ink to run under the black - but that's another story.

This in short is the principle of partitioning inks to make up a continuous grayscale.
I have described it refering to IJC because that's what you are using.  But it holds true 
for all gray printing software whether they all give you, the end-user, such control 
over each jet or not. The big benefit of approaches like IJC or QTR is that they are 
open to be used with any paper and ink for the supported printers. 
But by giving you all this control, you, the end-user have to become knowledgeable in 
making profiles (and many find it a steep learning curve). Other approaches - such as 
ImagePrint - takes the controls away, but makes it easier to make good prints out of 
the box.

Antonis

Black and Light Black printing with IJC OPM

2003-12-22 by adounoucos@aol.com

Antonis,

Thanks so very much for your discussion of creating profiles with IJC (and 
other software).   It gave me just the handle I was looking for.   In 
particular, the point I had not understood was "not intuitive" as you said, that is, the 
need to pull back the other inks as you near 100%, and at other transitions.  
 It may explain why when I measured ink limits on the first profiles I looked 
at and entered ink limits for my paper/ink combinations, it distorted the 
colors.   There are some experiments I did then that need repeating to understand 
what really happened.   Earlier posts of yours on July 4,2003, and Paul 
Roark's on July 19, 2003 dealt with these issues, but I didn't quite get it then.

Just now I have been looking at other 2200 profiles on IJC, and realized that 
most use three, four, or max five colors with two of them for toning, but 
none of the cool profiles have yellow, the supposed bad actor for metamerism.   
Most of my prints have been made with a 50% blend of EAM cool and warm which 
still do not have yellow.   In all but one set of gallery lights I have not seen 
any shift to green or magenta which I saw with the straight EP 2200 driver, 
and now understand why.

While you have now taken the mystery out of "swooping", and I can begin to 
deal with more than two inks, the understanding only adds to the magic of what 
can be done digitally.   I can see that there is still much art to this game, 
and that these tools are still only tools until mastered as in any other art 
form.   Meanwhile the IJC profiles are a great starting point.

Wow!

Angelo Dounoucos


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Re: Black and Light Black printing with IJC OPM

2003-12-22 by Jon

Hi Angelo,

 -snip-

> form.   Meanwhile the IJC profiles are a great starting point.
> 
> Wow!

That is what I have been doing, tweaking the supplied profiles. I have, what
I think, is a good warm, neutral, cool set for EEM with the Ultratone inks,
basically by changing the amount of toner. Do you have plans to use third
party B/W inks? I'd like to find some other IJC/OPM users to swap tweaked
profiles with.

Jon

Black and Light Black printing with IJC OPM

2003-12-23 by adounoucos@aol.com

Hi Jon,

Have been thinking about 3rd party inks, especially the Ultratones.   Are you 
using an Epson 2200?
Any special precautions when changing from the UC inks?

It would seem that using more gray inks would definitely smooth out tones, 
and improve resolution compared to the IJC profiles for the 2200 which use 
basically black and light black with one toner color.   Is that your experience?

Angelo


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Re: Black and Light Black printing with IJC OPM

2003-12-23 by Jon

Hi Angelo,

> Have been thinking about 3rd party inks, especially the Ultratones.   Are you
> using an Epson 2200?

Yes, I'm using a 2200 with the Ultratone carts. I'll eventually go to a bulk
feed, but I wanted to stick with the carts until I was convinced the system
would work well.

> Any special precautions when changing from the UC inks?

No, I'd have to describe the change over as very easy. I installed the
carts, ran several head cleanings and nozzle checks and was good to go in a
half an hour. 

I live in an 1840's era building with radiators and steam heat. The
temperature/humidity swing can be very dramatic. I do get bad nozzle checks
when I don't use the printer for a couple of days. But I have not had a bad
clog ever--two, three head cleanings at the most gives me a perfect nozzle
check.

Running a cleaning/nozzle check has become part of my workflow. I don't even
think about it anymore, it is just a step to do while the printer is warming
up.

> 
> It would seem that using more gray inks would definitely smooth out tones,
> and improve resolution compared to the IJC profiles for the 2200 which use
> basically black and light black with one toner color.   Is that your
> experience?

Yes. However, the difference is not as great as I thought it would be. I
thought the results with the IJC profiles and the UC inks were quite good. I
think the main benefit is in highlight smoothness.

After battling with a Cone system on a 9000, this has been a pleasure. It
isn't quite plug-n-play, but it is very close.

Jon

Black and Light Black printing with IJC OPM

2003-12-24 by adounoucos@aol.com

Hi again Jon,

Thanks much for the details on your experience with Ultratone carts.   I was 
kind of worried about the nozzles/clogging issues   as I too live in an 1830 
house with hot water heating radiators (Albany NY).   I never see much humidity 
in the winter.    I keep a plastic bag over the printer when not in use, but 
I'm sure it's still quite dry underneath all winter.   The UC inks have never 
clogged either, and only one nozzle check problem in six months or so since 
i've had the 2200.    

I too have been quite happy with IJC with   very little to no metamerism, and 
would go a bit further to get the smooth highlights and really 
neutral/controlled print color.   Expect I will try UT fairly soon.   If I do anything 
really with profiles in either case i'll let you know.

One final question.   Someone else asked whether one can change back and 
forth between Epson UC and Ultratones without problems.   I don't remember seeing 
an answer.   Do you swap inks also?

Thanks again,

Angelo



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new bee getting ready to print soon...

2003-12-24 by Altaf Bhimji

hi all, 

so after a few months of research, i'm on my way - I have the Ultra Tone set, 
with Ebony black from MIS -(i'll probably switch to the new UT2 ) and am 
expecting delivery of the epson 1280 in about a week or so... 

a couple of questions , would i need to calibrate my monitor with the printer 

(i.e. so that what is printed is what i see (or atleast a close 
approximation) ) - where can i get that info. on how to go about doing this? 

(i do understand that with the curves for UT - i'll see a weird version of my 
picture just before i print them...) -  

i also need a paper cutter to print smaller sized photographs as well --- any 
recommendations? 

and are there any basic books availaible that deal with digital 
printing/darkroom for black and white enthusiasts? 

is there anything else i need to get in place b/4 i begin printing? 

thanx for this great group - once i've learned a bit, hopefully i'll be able 
to participate and contribute more... 

altaf

Re: Black and Light Black printing with IJC OPM

2003-12-25 by Jon

Hi Angelo,

> Thanks much for the details on your experience with Ultratone carts.   I was
> kind of worried about the nozzles/clogging issues   as I too live in an 1830
> house with hot water heating radiators (Albany NY).

Hey, we are almost neighbors--I'm in Brooklyn.

-snip-
 
> One final question.   Someone else asked whether one can change back and
> forth between Epson UC and Ultratones without problems.   I don't remember
> seeing 
> an answer.   Do you swap inks also?

I haven't yet--but I'm going to try it soon. I have a small number of color
prints needing to be output. I doesn't seem like it will be a problem--I'll
post the results.

Happy holidays,

Jon

Black and Light Black printing with IJC OPM

2003-12-26 by adounoucos@aol.com

Hi Jon,

Not only are we almost neighbors, but I grew up in Brooklyn (Bay Ridge).   
Left NY to see the world, and ended up in Albany!   But thanks to Amtrak I can 
get into town now and then without much hassle.

On swapping UT's and UC's, I'll look forward to your postings.

Onward to a Happy New Year,

Angelo


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