Digital BW, The Print

I would suggest scan in at the maximum optical resolution which in this case
is 4000dpi. For print purposes you would need a sent to printer file of
pixel dimension say 270 to 300 dpi multiple the length or breath in inches.
Despite what has been said in this and other forums there is a difference in
print quality when my printing files hit say 450dpi  - from output on an
Epson EX (the printing time automatically become much longer).


Suggest you scan and save that file as the original master and do all work
from copies of that - preserve the master unchange at all costs. Lasersoft
AI should help you navigate thru the scaning maze with a lot more ease that
if you had to do it all manually for a newbie.

Work in PhotoShop and when you are done you can either use the resize the
image to either restrict the image to the print size (with the resample off)
and use what ever dpi is there. Or you could set the dpi to say 300 and use
resample on and set size to 11 x14 inches.  Question is would you want to
print in RGB or as a greyscale file - answer much depends on your tastes and
view light conditions.

  -----Original Message-----
  From: Joseph Robinson [mailto:joseph@hintonrobinson.com]
  Sent: Saturday, January 03, 2004 12:55 PM
  To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
  Subject: [Digital BW] scanning and image size


  Hi,

  I'm new to the forum and have just started scanning some of my 35mm
  black and white images (taken on Kodak T400CN).  I like to print
  final results at 11" x 14".  The images so far show
  some "posterization" in them.  I'm not sure of the solution, but I
  think that part of my problem could be in scanning...

  Do people generally scan the images at the highest resolution the
  scanner supports with the dimensions of the image the size of the
  negative?  Or is it better to scan at an "appropriate" resolution
  and have the image dimensions be 11" x 14"?

  I've been using the latter approach, scanning at 650dpi, setting the
  image size at 11" x 14" and printing at 1440 dpi.

  I hope this isn't too silly of a question and I've given enough
  information for a response...

  (Technical details: Microtek ArtixScan 4000t scanner, LaserSoft
  Silverfast SE software, Epson 2200 printer.)

  Joseph




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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi,

I'm new to the forum and have just started scanning some of my 35mm 
black and white images (taken on Kodak T400CN).  I like to print 
final results at 11" x 14".  The images so far show 
some "posterization" in them.  I'm not sure of the solution, but I 
think that part of my problem could be in scanning...

Do people generally scan the images at the highest resolution the 
scanner supports with the dimensions of the image the size of the 
negative?  Or is it better to scan at an "appropriate" resolution 
and have the image dimensions be 11" x 14"?

I've been using the latter approach, scanning at 650dpi, setting the 
image size at 11" x 14" and printing at 1440 dpi.

I hope this isn't too silly of a question and I've given enough 
information for a response...

(Technical details: Microtek ArtixScan 4000t scanner, LaserSoft 
Silverfast SE software, Epson 2200 printer.)

Joseph

> From: Joseph Robinson [mailto:joseph@...]
>
> I'm new to the forum and have just started scanning some of my 35mm
> black and white images (taken on Kodak T400CN).  I like to print
> final results at 11" x 14".  The images so far show
> some "posterization" in them.  I'm not sure of the solution, but I
> think that part of my problem could be in scanning...
>
> Do people generally scan the images at the highest resolution the
> scanner supports with the dimensions of the image the size of the
> negative?  Or is it better to scan at an "appropriate" resolution
> and have the image dimensions be 11" x 14"?
>
> I've been using the latter approach, scanning at 650dpi, setting the
> image size at 11" x 14" and printing at 1440 dpi.

Forget about inches, except when it's time to print. Scan at the natural
resolution of the scanner, which I believe is 4000ppi. (That's not a huge
number of pixels when the piece of film is only 1x1.5") Also, with the 2200
you should print at 2880, to avoid microbanding in the print.

--

Ciao,               Paul D. DeRocco
Paul                mailto:pderocco@...

Joseph:  Regarding posterization...I believe the advice you are 
getting regarding scanning at 4000 dpi at the input size is right.  
Do your major tonal adjustments in 16-bit only.  When upsizing to 
11x14, do so in small increments (maybe 2-3 inches at a time.) It 
only takes a minute to upsize in 5-6 increments using this method).  
Finally, go easy on your sharpening.  Hope this helps...Val


--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "ellery" 
<ellery@p...> wrote:
> I would suggest scan in at the maximum optical resolution which in 
this case
> is 4000dpi. For print purposes you would need a sent to printer 
file of
> pixel dimension say 270 to 300 dpi multiple the length or breath 
in inches.
> Despite what has been said in this and other forums there is a 
difference in
> print quality when my printing files hit say 450dpi  - from output 
on an
> Epson EX (the printing time automatically become much longer).
> 
> 
> Suggest you scan and save that file as the original master and do 
all work
> from copies of that - preserve the master unchange at all costs. 
Lasersoft
> AI should help you navigate thru the scaning maze with a lot more 
ease that
> if you had to do it all manually for a newbie.
> 
> Work in PhotoShop and when you are done you can either use the 
resize the
> image to either restrict the image to the print size (with the 
resample off)
> and use what ever dpi is there. Or you could set the dpi to say 
300 and use
> resample on and set size to 11 x14 inches.  Question is would you 
want to
> print in RGB or as a greyscale file - answer much depends on your 
tastes and
> view light conditions.
> 
> 
>   -----Original Message-----
>   From: Joseph Robinson [mailto:joseph@h...]
>   Sent: Saturday, January 03, 2004 12:55 PM
>   To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
>   Subject: [Digital BW] scanning and image size
> 
> 
>   Hi,
> 
>   I'm new to the forum and have just started scanning some of my 
35mm
>   black and white images (taken on Kodak T400CN).  I like to print
>   final results at 11" x 14".  The images so far show
>   some "posterization" in them.  I'm not sure of the solution, but 
I
>   think that part of my problem could be in scanning...
> 
>   Do people generally scan the images at the highest resolution the
>   scanner supports with the dimensions of the image the size of the
>   negative?  Or is it better to scan at an "appropriate" resolution
>   and have the image dimensions be 11" x 14"?
> 
>   I've been using the latter approach, scanning at 650dpi, setting 
the
>   image size at 11" x 14" and printing at 1440 dpi.
> 
>   I hope this isn't too silly of a question and I've given enough
>   information for a response...
> 
>   (Technical details: Microtek ArtixScan 4000t scanner, LaserSoft
>   Silverfast SE software, Epson 2200 printer.)
> 
>   Joseph
> 
> 
> 
> 
>   Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other 
resources as
> they are often being updated.
> 
>   http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> 
>   If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you 
wish to
> unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting 
this same
> page.
> 
>   Please follow these basic guidelines:
>   - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier 
messages to keep
> them short.
>   - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or 
flames.
> Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from the
> membership without notice.
>   - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of 
digital B&W
> printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be 
removed from
> the membership.
>   - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules 
and
> guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group 
Owner and
> Moderators. See "Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines" in the Files 
section:
>   http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/
> 
>   BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, 
THE PRINT
> YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE "OWNER" 
AND
> "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE 
LIABLE TO YOU
> FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR 
EXEMPLARY
> DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS,
> GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF 
THE  "OWNER" AND
> "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN 
ADVISED OF THE
> POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE 
INABILITY
> TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED 
ACCESS TO OR
> ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR 
CONDUCT OF ANY
> THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY 
OTHER
> MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -------------------------------------------------------------------
---------
> --
>   Yahoo! Groups Links
> 
>     a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
>     http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/
> 
>     b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>     DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> 
>     c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms 
of Service.

> 
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Val Brunell" 
<vbrunell@d...> wrote:
> Joseph:  Regarding posterization...I believe the advice you are 
> getting regarding scanning at 4000 dpi at the input size is right.  
> Do your major tonal adjustments in 16-bit only.  When upsizing to 
> 11x14, do so in small increments (maybe 2-3 inches at a time.) It 
> only takes a minute to upsize in 5-6 increments using this 
method).  
> Finally, go easy on your sharpening.  Hope this helps...Val

Val,
Why would one to upsize to 11x14, in increments yet, a 35mm negative 
scanned at 4000dpi ?

In Photoshop, select Image Size, uncheck resample image and enter 11 
for Height, if the image is horizontal. You have more than enough 
resolution so that upsizing is not necessary.
Cheers,
Andre

Here is where I approach scanning differently. Andre's method is correct,
but I like to save the steps. I set the "output" size and resolution to the
maximum useful settings in my scanning software (assuming that it does not
exceed the hardware resolution of the scanner.) In my setup that would be
11" x 14" at 240ppi. There is a lot of discussion about the maximum useful
ppi (which I think varies based on the printing system, paper and print
size.) My goal is to minimize or eliminate any image resizing (except with
resample unchecked as Andre mentioned) to prevent any damage to the image
caused by interpolation.

Wendel

> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Val Brunell"
> <vbrunell@d...> wrote:
>> Joseph:  Regarding posterization...I believe the advice you are
>> getting regarding scanning at 4000 dpi at the input size is right.
>> Do your major tonal adjustments in 16-bit only.  When upsizing to
>> 11x14, do so in small increments (maybe 2-3 inches at a time.) It
>> only takes a minute to upsize in 5-6 increments using this
> method).  
>> Finally, go easy on your sharpening.  Hope this helps...Val
> 
> Val,
> Why would one to upsize to 11x14, in increments yet, a 35mm negative
> scanned at 4000dpi ?
> 
> In Photoshop, select Image Size, uncheck resample image and enter 11
> for Height, if the image is horizontal. You have more than enough
> resolution so that upsizing is not necessary.
> Cheers,
> Andre

Andre...It has been my experience that upsizing by a large amount in 
one fell swoop can cause image degragation by way of artifacts.  
Upsizing in smaller increments minimizes this potential...Val

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "sceptre12345" 
<am1000@v...> wrote:
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Val Brunell" 
> <vbrunell@d...> wrote:
> > Joseph:  Regarding posterization...I believe the advice you are 
> > getting regarding scanning at 4000 dpi at the input size is 
right.  
> > Do your major tonal adjustments in 16-bit only.  When upsizing 
to 
> > 11x14, do so in small increments (maybe 2-3 inches at a time.) 
It 
> > only takes a minute to upsize in 5-6 increments using this 
> method).  
> > Finally, go easy on your sharpening.  Hope this helps...Val
> 
> Val,
> Why would one to upsize to 11x14, in increments yet, a 35mm 
negative 
> scanned at 4000dpi ?
> 
> In Photoshop, select Image Size, uncheck resample image and enter 
11 

> for Height, if the image is horizontal. You have more than enough 
> resolution so that upsizing is not necessary.
> Cheers,
> Andre

Val;

I think you have missed the crucial point in Andre's message, "uncheck"
resample means that the file is resized but not resampled - there is no
change to the pixels at all.

Wendel

> Andre...It has been my experience that upsizing by a large amount in
> one fell swoop can cause image degragation by way of artifacts.
> Upsizing in smaller increments minimizes this potential...Val

Thanks to everyone for the advice.

I will scan at the original negative size at 4000 ppi.  It sounds 
like I should be able to change the image size in Photoshop just 
before printing.  At that time, do I set the ppi to 300 or so, and 
resize to 11" x 14" with no resampling?  I assume that this is 
better than specifying the width as 11" in the print dialog.  

Is that correct?

Joseph
--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Paul D. 
DeRocco" <pderocco@i...> wrote:
> > From: Joseph Robinson [mailto:joseph@h...]
> >
> > I'm new to the forum and have just started scanning some of my 
35mm
> > black and white images (taken on Kodak T400CN).  I like to print
> > final results at 11" x 14".  The images so far show
> > some "posterization" in them.  I'm not sure of the solution, but 
I
> > think that part of my problem could be in scanning...
> >
> > Do people generally scan the images at the highest resolution the
> > scanner supports with the dimensions of the image the size of the
> > negative?  Or is it better to scan at an "appropriate" resolution
> > and have the image dimensions be 11" x 14"?
> >
> > I've been using the latter approach, scanning at 650dpi, setting 
the
> > image size at 11" x 14" and printing at 1440 dpi.
> 
> Forget about inches, except when it's time to print. Scan at the 
natural
> resolution of the scanner, which I believe is 4000ppi. (That's not 
a huge
> number of pixels when the piece of film is only 1x1.5") Also, with 
the 2200

> you should print at 2880, to avoid microbanding in the print.
> 
> --
> 
> Ciao,               Paul D. DeRocco
> Paul                mailto:pderocco@i...

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Joseph 
Robinson" <joseph@h...> wrote:
> Thanks to everyone for the advice.
> 
> I will scan at the original negative size at 4000 ppi.  It sounds 
> like I should be able to change the image size in Photoshop just 
> before printing.  At that time, do I set the ppi to 300 or so, and 
> resize to 11" x 14" with no resampling?  I assume that this is 
> better than specifying the width as 11" in the print dialog.  
> 
> Is that correct?

Set the print size to the desired width and height in Photoshop. 
Unless you want to scale the image with unconstrained proportions, 
you do not have to resample the image.

Your images will benefit by using as much resolution as you can scan. 
Images print with clarity starting at 240ppi. But 360ppi or more is 
even better as, there will be  increase in detail if you can acquire 
your images at higher resolution. 

In other words, scans at the highest resolution, set your print size 
in Photoshop, do not resample and let the PPI fall where it may. As 
long as you're at 240PPI or more, you should be doing fine.

Cheers,
Andre

> From: Joseph Robinson [mailto:joseph@...]
>
> I will scan at the original negative size at 4000 ppi.  It sounds
> like I should be able to change the image size in Photoshop just
> before printing.  At that time, do I set the ppi to 300 or so, and
> resize to 11" x 14" with no resampling?  I assume that this is
> better than specifying the width as 11" in the print dialog.

Before you try any resampling, just specify the inches and let the driver do
the resampling automatically . That almost always works fine. Explicit
resampling is occasionally useful if you have an unusual image that produces
moire, but the solution is to resample to some integral subdivision of the
printer's natural resolution, which for Epson is 720. Resampling is also
useful if you just don't have enough pixels--certain algorithms can reduce
pixelation--but that's not going to be a problem if you sample at 4000ppi.

--

Ciao,               Paul D. DeRocco
Paul                mailto:pderocco@...