Digital BW, The Print

I thought the list might be interested in some tests I did on 5 Japanese 
papers designed for inkjet printing.  The tests were done on an 1160 with MIS 
VM inks, using Paul's curves with no adjustments.  To get a rough idea of how 
these papers print without buying them, take a piece of ordinary laser 
printing paper and print an image on it.  It is somewhat grainy with not a 
great dmax.  The laser paper is a lot better than 4 of the Japanese papers.  
I wasn't interested in pursuing any of these papers further, but here is what 
I found for those who are interested (in descending order):

1. Imbe Thick White.  I would call it continuous tone.  About the same dmax 
as laser paper.  This was the only paper I thought had possibilities, but the 
paper doesn't feel special and looks like laser paper.  I didn't think it was 
worth investigating further for my photographic printing purposes.  White 
tone paper. Lightweight, like laser paper.

2. Laser paper.  This was much better than the following four.

3.Kozo Shi.  Lots of grain/dots.  Muddy looking.  Silky looking surface where 
printed.  Cream tone paper.  Heavier than laser paper.

4. Shiramine.  More grain/dots than #3.  Muddy looking.  Somewhat silky 
looking surface where printed.  Cream tone paper.  Heavier than laser paper.  
Very similar to #3, but prints worse.

5. Harukaze.  Very poor.  Ink blotches and spots all over paper.  Creased 
going through printer.  Very muddy.  White tone paper.  Like tissue paper.

6.Kozo Shi (lightweight).  The worst.  Big ink blotches.  Lots of creasing 
through printer.  Very muddy.  Cream tone paper.  Like lightweight tissue 
paper.

I think a special need would lead one to pursue any of these 5 papers 
further.  If anyone knows of a sheer, lightweight paper that prints cleanly 
and crisply, please let me know.

Helene      


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Try M-207 from Paper Connection Int'l (www.paperconnection.com).  they are
a direct importer from Japan. I did some tests on our 1270 (epson oem ink)
and 860 (piezoBW) with the Tokoniko profile (or something like that).  I
was fairly impressed.  
No, this is not a crane paper, and i have no financial interest in the
paper, but it's VERY inexpensive and i thought it printed well.  
Oh, one thing, vegetarians beware because it is sized with rabbit glue...
robert rex

At 03:05 PM 10/11/01 EDT, you wrote:
>  I thought the list might be interested in some tests I did on 5 Japanese 
>  The tests were done on an 1160 with MIS 
>  To get a rough idea of how 
> these papers print without buying them, take a piece of ordinary laser 
>  It is somewhat grainy with not a 
>   
> I wasn't interested in pursuing any of these papers further, but here is
what 
> I found for those who are interested (in descending order):
> 
>   About the same dmax 
>  This was the only paper I thought had possibilities, but the 
>  I didn't think it was 
>  White 
> tone paper. Lightweight, like laser paper.
> 
>  This was much better than the following four.
> 
>    Silky looking surface where 
>   Heavier than laser paper.
> 
>    Somewhat silky 
>    
> Very similar to #3, but prints worse.
> 
>    Creased 
>    Like tissue paper.
> 
>    Lots of creasing 
>    Like lightweight tissue 
> paper.
> 
> I think a special need would lead one to pursue any of these 5 papers 
>  If anyone knows of a sheer, lightweight paper that prints cleanly 
> and crisply, please let me know.
> 
>      
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> 
>   
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chameleon@...


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Helene, try the Japan 90. It is beautiful, and is coated for inkjet. I
think Cone sells it under the Tokinoko name.

jerry



grdglass@... wrote:

> 
> I thought the list might be interested in some tests I did on 5 Japanese
> papers designed for inkjet printing.  The tests were done on an 1160 with MIS
> VM inks, using Paul's curves with no adjustments.  To get a rough idea of how
> these papers print without buying them, take a piece of ordinary laser
> printing paper and print an image on it.  It is somewhat grainy with not a
> great dmax.  The laser paper is a lot better than 4 of the Japanese papers.
> I wasn't interested in pursuing any of these papers further, but here is what
> I found for those who are interested (in descending order):
> 
> 1. Imbe Thick White.  I would call it continuous tone.  About the same dmax
> as laser paper.  This was the only paper I thought had possibilities, but the
> paper doesn't feel special and looks like laser paper.  I didn't think it was
> worth investigating further for my photographic printing purposes.  White
> tone paper. Lightweight, like laser paper.
> 
> 2. Laser paper.  This was much better than the following four.
> 
> 3.Kozo Shi.  Lots of grain/dots.  Muddy looking.  Silky looking surface where
> printed.  Cream tone paper.  Heavier than laser paper.
> 
> 4. Shiramine.  More grain/dots than #3.  Muddy looking.  Somewhat silky
> looking surface where printed.  Cream tone paper.  Heavier than laser paper.
> Very similar to #3, but prints worse.
> 
> 5. Harukaze.  Very poor.  Ink blotches and spots all over paper.  Creased
> going through printer.  Very muddy.  White tone paper.  Like tissue paper.
> 
> 6.Kozo Shi (lightweight).  The worst.  Big ink blotches.  Lots of creasing
> through printer.  Very muddy.  Cream tone paper.  Like lightweight tissue
> paper.
> 
> I think a special need would lead one to pursue any of these 5 papers
> further.  If anyone knows of a sheer, lightweight paper that prints cleanly
> and crisply, please let me know.
> 
> Helene
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> 
> 
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
> 
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> 
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> - Include your full name with your message.
> - Include the address of your website, if you have one.
> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep them short.
> - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject header.
> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or "flames."
> - Complete your Yahoo profile.
> - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the various resources on the homepage.
> 
> 
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Has anyone experimented with Japanese papers printed with either PiezoBW or
MIS BW inks?  I'd be interested to hear if you found anything coated or
uncoated that you liked.  Where did you get them and what Piezo profiles did
you try?

Robert

>Has anyone experimented with Japanese papers printed with either PiezoBW or
>MIS BW inks?
>
>Robert

I will be receiving samples of "Japanese" papers in the next few 
days. These will be the real thing in so far as they are hand made in 
China, different textures and  sized to various degrees for use with 
Sumi carbon inks. One of the samples will be a machine made Japanese 
paper. All available in rolls or sheets. I imagine using these papers 
in an ink jet will be like printing on fabric.

For a very detailed description of them go to:

      http://www.jenny-scott.com/main.htm


Some more links:

http://www.silverdragonstudio.com/sumi-e/supplies.html

sells acid free Chinese rice paper which is actually made from bamboo 
pulp not rice.


http://www.guanghwa.co.uk/guanghwa/catalogue/papers.html

Sell one Japanese and one Chinese paper, might be worth contacting 
them for advice as they are direct importers and must know what is 
availible.

Jerry.

On 2/24/02 10:32 PM, "meander@..." <meander@...> wrote:

>> Has anyone experimented with Japanese papers printed with either PiezoBW or
>> MIS BW inks?
>> 
>> Robert
> 
> I will be receiving samples of "Japanese" papers in the next few
> days. These will be the real thing in so far as they are hand made in
> China, different textures and  sized to various degrees for use with
> Sumi carbon inks. One of the samples will be a machine made Japanese
> paper. All available in rolls or sheets. I imagine using these papers
> in an ink jet will be like printing on fabric.
> 
> Jerry

Thanks much...keep us posted on how they work.

Robert

At 08:24 PM 2/24/02 -0800, you wrote:
>    Has anyone experimented with Japanese papers printed with either
PiezoBW or
>  I'd be interested to hear if you found anything coated or
>  Where did you get them and what Piezo profiles did
> you try?
> 
> Robert


Yes, I have. I have tried Hahnemuhle's japanese paper with the Tokinoko
(sp?) profile, as well as a lighter weight sheet from Paper Connections
Int'l, sized with rabbit glue, with the same profile.  The Paper
Connections sheet, there sheet no. M206 or M207, produced a really nice,
soft image.  I think their website is paperconnections.com

robert rex
PLEASE NOTE:  WHEN REPLYING, ENSURE THAT EMAIL ADDRESS READS--

chameleon@...


IF THE "pop" IS PRESENT IN THE EMAIL ADDRESS, 
DELETE THE "pop."  
THIS IS IMPORTANT, 
OTHERWISE I WILL NOT RECEIVE YOUR MESSAGE.

>
>
>
>Yes, I have. I have tried Hahnemuhle's japanese paper with the Tokinoko
>(sp?) profile, as well as a lighter weight sheet from Paper Connections
>Int'l, sized with rabbit glue, with the same profile.  The Paper
>Connections sheet, there sheet no. M206 or M207, produced a really nice,
>soft image.  I think their website is paperconnections.com
>
>robert rex

I think the Hahnemuhle version of Japanese paper would be the most 
suitable for photographers, have not tried M206 or 207.

But, I have just received the paper samples mentioned in my earlier 
post, 17 different papers plus there is one available with gold leaf 
moulded into it, unfortunately a sample of that was not sent!

Out of the 17 there are about 8 which I think will appeal to artists 
who work with watercolour/soft type images, in particular the 
Japanese Mulberry. All these papers have a much smother texture than 
the Hahnemuhle paper and exhibit the natural colour of the plant pulp 
that they are made from. The exception is the Japanese machine made 
paper which is highly bleached.

The absorbency of these papers falls into 4 ranges, not very 
absorbent, absorbent , very absorbent and fully absorbent.

I think I will stop contributing to this thread because I can hear 
the Photographers blood pressure rise as they mumble the holy 
words... fading longevity... while bowing to their south facing 
window. ( Just joking)

Jerry.