Digital BW, The Print

I rather like Brightcube's Eclipse Satine for its texture, base white 
and very neutral image with both the Piezo inks and the MIS VM inks. 
I had a hard time with the Piezo inks as none of the profiles were 
even close and my attemtps at customizing a profile was not totally 
successful.

I just got an e-mail news letter from PhotoInkJet.com the on-line 
store for Brightcube with the following instructions for using Piezo 
inks with the Epson driver on Elecipse Satine. I have not tried this 
and do not vouch for the results but thought that it might be of 
interest.

Martin

"PIEZOGRAPHY B&W on BC Eclipse SATINE & VELVET PAPERS
The Cone driver that comes with the Cone Inks does not have a setting 
that works with our BC Eclipse papers, therefore the values were not 
as deep as expected and we experienced some banding now and then even 
though all instructions where followed and the was printer was 
aligned properly. We decided to see what the Epson 1160 driver , 
PhotoShop, and Cone B&W inks could do. Here's exactly what we did:
1. In PhotoShop the image was adjusted so it looked perfect on the 
screen, we used the Mac G4, ViewSonic monitor, and took down the 
brightness five steps 
2. Second we selected a work space of "working greyscale 2.2 gamma" 
and perceptual 
3. In the advanced window we selected : color - 1440dpi - automatic 
color controls - 
4. In the 1160 driver we selected the Epson heavy matte media

With those steps completed, we then printed the test image of the 
spiral staircase from Cones CD and it came out fantastic-no banding 
with the full range of tones that are expected from a good B&W Piezo 
print.
Bottom line: It is possible to achieve beautiful Piezo B&W images by 
simply bypassing the Cone driver and using the above settings. "

on 10/13/01 12:14 AM, Martin Wesley wrote:

> 1. In PhotoShop the image was adjusted so it looked perfect on the
> screen, we used the Mac G4, ViewSonic monitor, and took down the
> brightness five steps


Thanks for sharing Martin.

Do you understand what they mean here? Did they take down the brightness of
the monitor 5 steps or the image? How big is a step?

Todd

Todd,

Taking a wild guess, I would first try a 5% drop in overall brightness in
Photoshop. Other than that I haven't a clue.

Check with Kamaren Henson <kami@...> who sent out the newsletter
and who is also a member of the group.

Martin

----- Original Message -----
From: "Todd Flashner" <tflash@...>
To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, October 12, 2001 9:39 PM
Subject: Re: [Digital BW] PIEZOGRAPHY B&W on BC Eclipse SATINE


> on 10/13/01 12:14 AM, Martin Wesley wrote:
>
> > 1. In PhotoShop the image was adjusted so it looked perfect on the
> > screen, we used the Mac G4, ViewSonic monitor, and took down the
> > brightness five steps
>
>
> Thanks for sharing Martin.
>
> Do you understand what they mean here? Did they take down the brightness
of
> the monitor 5 steps or the image? How big is a step?
>
> Todd
>
>
>
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and
other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
>
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> - Include your full name with your message.
> - Include the address of your website, if you have one.
> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep
them short.
> - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject header.
> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or "flames."
> - Complete your Yahoo profile.
> - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the various
resources on the homepage.

>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>

Try this...but don't forget to email Jon to ask him for a Eclipse
profile...its that easy...all they need to do is profile the paper and we
won't need to use the Epson driver.

Robert

On 10/12/01 9:45 PM, "Martin Wesley" <mwesley250@...> wrote:

> Todd,
> 
> Taking a wild guess, I would first try a 5% drop in overall brightness in
> Photoshop. Other than that I haven't a clue.
> 
> Check with Kamaren Henson <kami@...> who sent out the newsletter
> and who is also a member of the group.
> 
> Martin
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Todd Flashner" <tflash@...>
> To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Friday, October 12, 2001 9:39 PM
> Subject: Re: [Digital BW] PIEZOGRAPHY B&W on BC Eclipse SATINE
> 
> 
>> on 10/13/01 12:14 AM, Martin Wesley wrote:
>> 
>>> 1. In PhotoShop the image was adjusted so it looked perfect on the
>>> screen, we used the Mac G4, ViewSonic monitor, and took down the
>>> brightness five steps
>> 
>> 
>> Thanks for sharing Martin.
>> 
>> Do you understand what they mean here? Did they take down the brightness
> of
>> the monitor 5 steps or the image? How big is a step?
>> 
>> Todd
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and
> other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
>> 
>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
>> 
>> Please follow these basic guidelines:
>> - Include your full name with your message.
>> - Include the address of your website, if you have one.
>> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep
> them short.
>> - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject header.
>> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or "flames."
>> - Complete your Yahoo profile.
>> - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the various
> resources on the homepage.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>> 
>> 
>> 
> 
> 
> 
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and other
> resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
> 
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> 
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> - Include your full name with your message.
> - Include the address of your website, if you have one.
> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep
> them short.
> - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject header.
> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or "flames."
> - Complete your Yahoo profile.
> - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the various
> resources on the homepage.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> 
> 

----------------------
Robert Morrison
rmorrison@...

310-397-2704

4131 Bledsoe Ave.
Los Angeles, CA 90066

Thanks Martin.  Its critical to note that this may demonstrate the potential
of the paper but it is not an answer...remember...all you are doing using
this method is printing with black ink (no gray inks--its not a quad tone
print)...we need a real profile for this paper...so please...everyone who
would like to use PiezoBW with Eclipse papers email Jon to request it.

Robert

On 10/12/01 9:14 PM, "Martin Wesley" <mwesley250@...> wrote:

> 
> I rather like Brightcube's Eclipse Satine for its texture, base white
> and very neutral image with both the Piezo inks and the MIS VM inks.
> I had a hard time with the Piezo inks as none of the profiles were
> even close and my attemtps at customizing a profile was not totally
> successful.
> 
> I just got an e-mail news letter from PhotoInkJet.com the on-line
> store for Brightcube with the following instructions for using Piezo
> inks with the Epson driver on Elecipse Satine. I have not tried this
> and do not vouch for the results but thought that it might be of
> interest.
> 
> Martin
> 
> "PIEZOGRAPHY B&W on BC Eclipse SATINE & VELVET PAPERS
> The Cone driver that comes with the Cone Inks does not have a setting
> that works with our BC Eclipse papers, therefore the values were not
> as deep as expected and we experienced some banding now and then even
> though all instructions where followed and the was printer was
> aligned properly. We decided to see what the Epson 1160 driver ,
> PhotoShop, and Cone B&W inks could do. Here's exactly what we did:
> 1. In PhotoShop the image was adjusted so it looked perfect on the
> screen, we used the Mac G4, ViewSonic monitor, and took down the
> brightness five steps
> 2. Second we selected a work space of "working greyscale 2.2 gamma"
> and perceptual 
> 3. In the advanced window we selected : color - 1440dpi - automatic
> color controls - 
> 4. In the 1160 driver we selected the Epson heavy matte media
> 
> With those steps completed, we then printed the test image of the
> spiral staircase from Cones CD and it came out fantastic-no banding
> with the full range of tones that are expected from a good B&W Piezo
> print.
> Bottom line: It is possible to achieve beautiful Piezo B&W images by
> simply bypassing the Cone driver and using the above settings. "
> 
> 
> 
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and other
> resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
> 
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> 
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> - Include your full name with your message.
> - Include the address of your website, if you have one.
> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep
> them short.
> - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject header.
> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or "flames."
> - Complete your Yahoo profile.
> - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the various
> resources on the homepage.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> 
> 

----------------------
Robert Morrison
rmorrison@...

310-397-2704

4131 Bledsoe Ave.
Los Angeles, CA 90066

I don't see anything in there that implies they are printing with black ink
only.

Todd

> Thanks Martin.  Its critical to note that this may demonstrate the potential
> of the paper but it is not an answer...remember...all you are doing using
> this method is printing with black ink (no gray inks--its not a quad tone
> print)...we need a real profile for this paper...so please...everyone who
> would like to use PiezoBW with Eclipse papers email Jon to request it.
> 
> Robert
> 
> On 10/12/01 9:14 PM, "Martin Wesley" <mwesley250@...> wrote:
> 
>> 
>> I rather like Brightcube's Eclipse Satine for its texture, base white
>> and very neutral image with both the Piezo inks and the MIS VM inks.
>> I had a hard time with the Piezo inks as none of the profiles were
>> even close and my attemtps at customizing a profile was not totally
>> successful.
>> 
>> I just got an e-mail news letter from PhotoInkJet.com the on-line
>> store for Brightcube with the following instructions for using Piezo
>> inks with the Epson driver on Elecipse Satine. I have not tried this
>> and do not vouch for the results but thought that it might be of
>> interest.
>> 
>> Martin
>> 
>> "PIEZOGRAPHY B&W on BC Eclipse SATINE & VELVET PAPERS
>> The Cone driver that comes with the Cone Inks does not have a setting
>> that works with our BC Eclipse papers, therefore the values were not
>> as deep as expected and we experienced some banding now and then even
>> though all instructions where followed and the was printer was
>> aligned properly. We decided to see what the Epson 1160 driver ,
>> PhotoShop, and Cone B&W inks could do. Here's exactly what we did:
>> 1. In PhotoShop the image was adjusted so it looked perfect on the
>> screen, we used the Mac G4, ViewSonic monitor, and took down the
>> brightness five steps
>> 2. Second we selected a work space of "working greyscale 2.2 gamma"
>> and perceptual 
>> 3. In the advanced window we selected : color - 1440dpi - automatic
>> color controls -
>> 4. In the 1160 driver we selected the Epson heavy matte media
>> 
>> With those steps completed, we then printed the test image of the
>> spiral staircase from Cones CD and it came out fantastic-no banding
>> with the full range of tones that are expected from a good B&W Piezo
>> print.
>> Bottom line: It is possible to achieve beautiful Piezo B&W images by
>> simply bypassing the Cone driver and using the above settings. "

Using this technique I just made a print on Eclipse Satine using PiezoBW
inks and the Epson driver that has a neutral black that exceeds Photo Rag
and Museo prints in density.  I don't have a densitometer...but it is the
deepest black I've ever seen on a matte paper.  The print does not have the
tonal range that a PiezoBW print using the Piezo driver has (because it is
only using one ink)...but it is really impressive.   I get better results
using the smooth side of the Satine.

Robert

On 10/12/01 11:22 PM, "Robert Morrison" <rmorrison@...> wrote:

> Thanks Martin.  Its critical to note that this may demonstrate the potential
> of the paper but it is not an answer...remember...all you are doing using
> this method is printing with black ink (no gray inks--its not a quad tone
> print)...we need a real profile for this paper...so please...everyone who
> would like to use PiezoBW with Eclipse papers email Jon to request it.
> 
> Robert
> 
> On 10/12/01 9:14 PM, "Martin Wesley" <mwesley250@...> wrote:
> 
>> 
>> I rather like Brightcube's Eclipse Satine for its texture, base white
>> and very neutral image with both the Piezo inks and the MIS VM inks.
>> I had a hard time with the Piezo inks as none of the profiles were
>> even close and my attemtps at customizing a profile was not totally
>> successful.
>> 
>> I just got an e-mail news letter from PhotoInkJet.com the on-line
>> store for Brightcube with the following instructions for using Piezo
>> inks with the Epson driver on Elecipse Satine. I have not tried this
>> and do not vouch for the results but thought that it might be of
>> interest.
>> 
>> Martin
>> 
>> "PIEZOGRAPHY B&W on BC Eclipse SATINE & VELVET PAPERS
>> The Cone driver that comes with the Cone Inks does not have a setting
>> that works with our BC Eclipse papers, therefore the values were not
>> as deep as expected and we experienced some banding now and then even
>> though all instructions where followed and the was printer was
>> aligned properly. We decided to see what the Epson 1160 driver ,
>> PhotoShop, and Cone B&W inks could do. Here's exactly what we did:
>> 1. In PhotoShop the image was adjusted so it looked perfect on the
>> screen, we used the Mac G4, ViewSonic monitor, and took down the
>> brightness five steps
>> 2. Second we selected a work space of "working greyscale 2.2 gamma"
>> and perceptual 
>> 3. In the advanced window we selected : color - 1440dpi - automatic
>> color controls -
>> 4. In the 1160 driver we selected the Epson heavy matte media
>> 
>> With those steps completed, we then printed the test image of the
>> spiral staircase from Cones CD and it came out fantastic-no banding
>> with the full range of tones that are expected from a good B&W Piezo
>> print.
>> Bottom line: It is possible to achieve beautiful Piezo B&W images by
>> simply bypassing the Cone driver and using the above settings. "
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and
>> other
>> resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
>> 
>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
>> 
>> Please follow these basic guidelines:
>> - Include your full name with your message.
>> - Include the address of your website, if you have one.
>> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep
>> them short.
>> - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject header.
>> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or "flames."
>> - Complete your Yahoo profile.
>> - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the various
>> resources on the homepage.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>> 
>> 
> 
> ----------------------
> Robert Morrison
> rmorrison@...
> 
> 310-397-2704
> 
> 4131 Bledsoe Ave.
> Los Angeles, CA 90066
> 
> 
> 
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and other
> resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
> 
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> 
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> - Include your full name with your message.
> - Include the address of your website, if you have one.
> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep
> them short.
> - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject header.
> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or "flames."
> - Complete your Yahoo profile.
> - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the various
> resources on the homepage.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> 
> 

----------------------
Robert Morrison
rmorrison@...

310-397-2704

4131 Bledsoe Ave.
Los Angeles, CA 90066

Robert

I don't have any Eclipse on hand to test for myself, so please bear with me,
as I'm trying to determine if this is worth buying more. I did try some
samples which I liked, however I felt the blacks were too weak for my taste
using both Piezo and MIS VM inks through the Epson driver (I don't own the
Piezo driver so petitioning Cone for a profile isn't an option. ;-) ).

Why are you assuming that they are recommending black ink only, I don't see
that said in their instructions? Have you tried the same technique with
using all the inks? Black ink only is a particular option which is selected
within the Epson driver--are you intentionally selecting that--are you sure
you are using black ink only?

Todd

> Using this technique I just made a print on Eclipse Satine using PiezoBW
> inks and the Epson driver that has a neutral black that exceeds Photo Rag
> and Museo prints in density.  I don't have a densitometer...but it is the
> deepest black I've ever seen on a matte paper.  The print does not have the
> tonal range that a PiezoBW print using the Piezo driver has (because it is
> only using one ink)...but it is really impressive.   I get better results
> using the smooth side of the Satine.
> 
> Robert
> 
> On 10/12/01 11:22 PM, "Robert Morrison" <rmorrison@...> wrote:
> 
>> Thanks Martin.  Its critical to note that this may demonstrate the potential
>> of the paper but it is not an answer...remember...all you are doing using
>> this method is printing with black ink (no gray inks--its not a quad tone
>> print)...we need a real profile for this paper...so please...everyone who
>> would like to use PiezoBW with Eclipse papers email Jon to request it.
>> 
>> Robert
>> 
>> On 10/12/01 9:14 PM, "Martin Wesley" <mwesley250@...> wrote:
>> 
>>> 
>>> I rather like Brightcube's Eclipse Satine for its texture, base white
>>> and very neutral image with both the Piezo inks and the MIS VM inks.
>>> I had a hard time with the Piezo inks as none of the profiles were
>>> even close and my attemtps at customizing a profile was not totally
>>> successful.
>>> 
>>> I just got an e-mail news letter from PhotoInkJet.com the on-line
>>> store for Brightcube with the following instructions for using Piezo
>>> inks with the Epson driver on Elecipse Satine. I have not tried this
>>> and do not vouch for the results but thought that it might be of
>>> interest.
>>> 
>>> Martin
>>> 
>>> "PIEZOGRAPHY B&W on BC Eclipse SATINE & VELVET PAPERS
>>> The Cone driver that comes with the Cone Inks does not have a setting
>>> that works with our BC Eclipse papers, therefore the values were not
>>> as deep as expected and we experienced some banding now and then even
>>> though all instructions where followed and the was printer was
>>> aligned properly. We decided to see what the Epson 1160 driver ,
>>> PhotoShop, and Cone B&W inks could do. Here's exactly what we did:
>>> 1. In PhotoShop the image was adjusted so it looked perfect on the
>>> screen, we used the Mac G4, ViewSonic monitor, and took down the
>>> brightness five steps
>>> 2. Second we selected a work space of "working greyscale 2.2 gamma"
>>> and perceptual 
>>> 3. In the advanced window we selected : color - 1440dpi - automatic
>>> color controls -
>>> 4. In the 1160 driver we selected the Epson heavy matte media
>>> 
>>> With those steps completed, we then printed the test image of the
>>> spiral staircase from Cones CD and it came out fantastic-no banding
>>> with the full range of tones that are expected from a good B&W Piezo
>>> print.
>>> Bottom line: It is possible to achieve beautiful Piezo B&W images by
>>> simply bypassing the Cone driver and using the above settings. "
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and
>>> other
>>> resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
>>> 
>>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
>>> 
>>> Please follow these basic guidelines:
>>> - Include your full name with your message.
>>> - Include the address of your website, if you have one.
>>> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep
>>> them short.
>>> - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject header.
>>> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or "flames."
>>> - Complete your Yahoo profile.
>>> - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the various
>>> resources on the homepage.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>>> 
>>> 
>> 
>> ----------------------
>> Robert Morrison
>> rmorrison@...
>> 
>> 310-397-2704
>> 
>> 4131 Bledsoe Ave.
>> Los Angeles, CA 90066
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and
>> other
>> resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
>> 
>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
>> 
>> Please follow these basic guidelines:
>> - Include your full name with your message.
>> - Include the address of your website, if you have one.
>> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep
>> them short.
>> - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject header.
>> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or "flames."
>> - Complete your Yahoo profile.
>> - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the various
>> resources on the homepage.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>> 
>> 
> 
> ----------------------
> Robert Morrison
> rmorrison@...
> 
> 310-397-2704
> 
> 4131 Bledsoe Ave.
> Los Angeles, CA 90066

Martin, what do we know about longevity/tone shift etc. with Satine and VM
inks?

As a more general question, is there a place in the files section where this
sort of experience is located?

Thanks

Bill


on 10/13/01 12:14 AM, Martin Wesley wrote:

I rather like Brightcube's Eclipse Satine for its texture, base white
and very neutral image with both the Piezo inks and the MIS VM inks.




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

You aren't using a curve and you are printing a grayscale file...therefore
it is automatically black ink (remember printing BW images with the Epson
driver with OEM inks?).  Printing a grayscale file there is nothing that
tells the printer that their is a quadtone inks.  You would have to use a
procedure like Paul uses with the MIS inks to get quadtone printing...at
which point you may as well use the MIS inks.

Robert


There is nothing in the eOn 10/13/01 12:28 AM, "Todd Flashner"
<tflash@...> wrote:

> Robert
> 
> I don't have any Eclipse on hand to test for myself, so please bear with me,
> as I'm trying to determine if this is worth buying more. I did try some
> samples which I liked, however I felt the blacks were too weak for my taste
> using both Piezo and MIS VM inks through the Epson driver (I don't own the
> Piezo driver so petitioning Cone for a profile isn't an option. ;-) ).
> 
> Why are you assuming that they are recommending black ink only, I don't see
> that said in their instructions? Have you tried the same technique with
> using all the inks? Black ink only is a particular option which is selected
> within the Epson driver--are you intentionally selecting that--are you sure
> you are using black ink only?
> 
> Todd
> 
>> Using this technique I just made a print on Eclipse Satine using PiezoBW
>> inks and the Epson driver that has a neutral black that exceeds Photo Rag
>> and Museo prints in density.  I don't have a densitometer...but it is the
>> deepest black I've ever seen on a matte paper.  The print does not have the
>> tonal range that a PiezoBW print using the Piezo driver has (because it is
>> only using one ink)...but it is really impressive.   I get better results
>> using the smooth side of the Satine.
>> 
>> Robert
>> 
>> On 10/12/01 11:22 PM, "Robert Morrison" <rmorrison@...> wrote:
>> 
>>> Thanks Martin.  Its critical to note that this may demonstrate the potential
>>> of the paper but it is not an answer...remember...all you are doing using
>>> this method is printing with black ink (no gray inks--its not a quad tone
>>> print)...we need a real profile for this paper...so please...everyone who
>>> would like to use PiezoBW with Eclipse papers email Jon to request it.
>>> 
>>> Robert
>>> 
>>> On 10/12/01 9:14 PM, "Martin Wesley" <mwesley250@...> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> I rather like Brightcube's Eclipse Satine for its texture, base white
>>>> and very neutral image with both the Piezo inks and the MIS VM inks.
>>>> I had a hard time with the Piezo inks as none of the profiles were
>>>> even close and my attemtps at customizing a profile was not totally
>>>> successful.
>>>> 
>>>> I just got an e-mail news letter from PhotoInkJet.com the on-line
>>>> store for Brightcube with the following instructions for using Piezo
>>>> inks with the Epson driver on Elecipse Satine. I have not tried this
>>>> and do not vouch for the results but thought that it might be of
>>>> interest.
>>>> 
>>>> Martin
>>>> 
>>>> "PIEZOGRAPHY B&W on BC Eclipse SATINE & VELVET PAPERS
>>>> The Cone driver that comes with the Cone Inks does not have a setting
>>>> that works with our BC Eclipse papers, therefore the values were not
>>>> as deep as expected and we experienced some banding now and then even
>>>> though all instructions where followed and the was printer was
>>>> aligned properly. We decided to see what the Epson 1160 driver ,
>>>> PhotoShop, and Cone B&W inks could do. Here's exactly what we did:
>>>> 1. In PhotoShop the image was adjusted so it looked perfect on the
>>>> screen, we used the Mac G4, ViewSonic monitor, and took down the
>>>> brightness five steps
>>>> 2. Second we selected a work space of "working greyscale 2.2 gamma"
>>>> and perceptual
>>>> 3. In the advanced window we selected : color - 1440dpi - automatic
>>>> color controls -
>>>> 4. In the 1160 driver we selected the Epson heavy matte media
>>>> 
>>>> With those steps completed, we then printed the test image of the
>>>> spiral staircase from Cones CD and it came out fantastic-no banding
>>>> with the full range of tones that are expected from a good B&W Piezo
>>>> print.
>>>> Bottom line: It is possible to achieve beautiful Piezo B&W images by
>>>> simply bypassing the Cone driver and using the above settings. "
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and
>>>> other
>>>> resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
>>>> 
>>>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
>>>> 
>>>> Please follow these basic guidelines:
>>>> - Include your full name with your message.
>>>> - Include the address of your website, if you have one.
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>>>> 
>>> 
>>> ----------------------
>>> Robert Morrison
>>> rmorrison@...
>>> 
>>> 310-397-2704
>>> 
>>> 4131 Bledsoe Ave.
>>> Los Angeles, CA 90066
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and
>>> other
>>> resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
>>> 
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>>> 
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>>> 
>> 
>> ----------------------
>> Robert Morrison
>> rmorrison@...
>> 
>> 310-397-2704
>> 
>> 4131 Bledsoe Ave.
>> Los Angeles, CA 90066
> 
> 
> 
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and other
> resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
> 
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> 
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> - Include your full name with your message.
> - Include the address of your website, if you have one.
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> them short.
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> - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the various
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> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
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> 

----------------------
Robert Morrison
rmorrison@...

310-397-2704

4131 Bledsoe Ave.
Los Angeles, CA 90066

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., Robert Morrison <rmorrison@p...> wrote:
> You aren't using a curve and you are printing a grayscale file...therefore
> it is automatically black ink (remember printing BW images with the Epson
> driver with OEM inks?).

Sorry Robert, but unless black ink only is specifically selected in the driver, it will print any kind of file with all the inks. It 
just won't be separated and results will vary.
Tyler

Regardless...the black is amazing...but the paper definitely would need to
be profiled to use it with an Epson driver...something that many of you
could do.  However, if we really want to use it with Piezo...we need a piezo
profile to standardize...so that it behaves like other papers with profiles.
But this definitely demonstrates that the problem is not the paper but
rather it is the lack of a good profile. This black is so black...wow!
Defitely neutral to photo rag black...and really...really strong...can't
wait for Antonis to get back so we can get a dmax.

I'm going to coat one of the prints (as well as Photo Rag prints)
today...will report back.

Robert


On 10/13/01 8:59 AM, "Tyler Boley" <tyler@...> wrote:

> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., Robert Morrison <rmorrison@p...>
> wrote:
>> You aren't using a curve and you are printing a grayscale file...therefore
>> it is automatically black ink (remember printing BW images with the Epson
>> driver with OEM inks?).
> 
> Sorry Robert, but unless black ink only is specifically selected in the
> driver, it will print any kind of file with all the inks. It
> just won't be separated and results will vary.
> Tyler
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and other
> resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
> 
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> 
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
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> 

----------------------
Robert Morrison
rmorrison@...

310-397-2704

4131 Bledsoe Ave.
Los Angeles, CA 90066

Got the same blurb Maritn, I'm going to try it out now.

Jerry.




Martin Wesley wrote:

> 
> I rather like Brightcube's Eclipse Satine for its texture, base white
> and very neutral image with both the Piezo inks and the MIS VM inks.
> I had a hard time with the Piezo inks as none of the profiles were
> even close and my attemtps at customizing a profile was not totally
> successful.
> 
> I just got an e-mail news letter from PhotoInkJet.com the on-line
> store for Brightcube with the following instructions for using Piezo
> inks with the Epson driver on Elecipse Satine. I have not tried this
> and do not vouch for the results but thought that it might be of
> interest.
> 
> Martin
> 
> "PIEZOGRAPHY B&W on BC Eclipse SATINE & VELVET PAPERS
> The Cone driver that comes with the Cone Inks does not have a setting
> that works with our BC Eclipse papers, therefore the values were not
> as deep as expected and we experienced some banding now and then even
> though all instructions where followed and the was printer was
> aligned properly. We decided to see what the Epson 1160 driver ,
> PhotoShop, and Cone B&W inks could do. Here's exactly what we did:
> 1. In PhotoShop the image was adjusted so it looked perfect on the
> screen, we used the Mac G4, ViewSonic monitor, and took down the
> brightness five steps
> 2. Second we selected a work space of "working greyscale 2.2 gamma"
> and perceptual
> 3. In the advanced window we selected : color - 1440dpi - automatic
> color controls -
> 4. In the 1160 driver we selected the Epson heavy matte media
> 
> With those steps completed, we then printed the test image of the
> spiral staircase from Cones CD and it came out fantastic-no banding
> with the full range of tones that are expected from a good B&W Piezo
> print.
> Bottom line: It is possible to achieve beautiful Piezo B&W images by
> simply bypassing the Cone driver and using the above settings. "
> 
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
> 
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> 
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
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Bill,

Nothing absolute but there is relative data. Paul Roark has be 
consistently performing comparative fade testing using high intensity 
fluorescent light. If you check in the Files > Message Related Files 
section of the group homepage there is an EAM vs. Eclipse Satine test 
as well as other comparative tests he has done.

Martin


--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., Bill Morse <willym@b...> 
wrote:
> Martin, what do we know about longevity/tone shift etc. with Satine 
and VM
> inks?
> 
> As a more general question, is there a place in the files section 
where this
> sort of experience is located?
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Bill
> 
(snip)