Digital BW, The Print

Several months ago (6-8) there was a thread related to frame size 
and mat cutting for exhibiting prints. I tried to search the 
archives but was not successful.  the issues are - I have 12 prints 
of various sizes(5x7-11x15) that need to be matted and framed. I 
understand to use 16x20 frame size for all sizes( is that correct?) 
for consistancy, and to cut the mat 1" higher from the bottom? any 
help would be appreciated.
  
PS. Paul Roark, I love the UT-2 ink sets and the curves you have 
worked so hard on. Thanks.
Patrick

In a message dated 2/2/2004 2:25:42 PM Eastern Standard Time, 
DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com writes:
Frame size and matting
Where are you located. I own a frame shop and use a CMC (Computerized Mat 
Cutter). If I can help you out, I'd be glad to.
Marty


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Marty,

> Where are you located. I own a frame shop and use a CMC (Computerized Mat
> Cutter). If I can help you out, I'd be glad to.
> Marty

Where are you located?

Regards,

Austin

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "pjkealey" 
<pjkealey@y...> wrote:
> Several months ago (6-8) there was a thread related to frame size 
> and mat cutting for exhibiting prints. I tried to search the 
> archives but was not successful.  the issues are - I have 12 prints 
> of various sizes(5x7-11x15) that need to be matted and framed. I 
> understand to use 16x20 frame size for all sizes( is that correct?) 
> for consistancy, and to cut the mat 1" higher from the bottom? any 
> help would be appreciated.
>   
> PS. Paul Roark, I love the UT-2 ink sets and the curves you have 
> worked so hard on. Thanks.
> Patrick

Patrick,

I'm not sure about standard frame sizes for prints in an exhibit but 
a 5x7 print in a 16x20 frame seems too big to me.  Why would they all 
have to be the same size?  I guess there's nothing that says they 
can't be but I've seen exhibits where there are different frame sizes.

On second thought maybe frames all the same size might look good even 
for the 5x7 prints.  I guess it depends on what you're trying create. 

I think bumping the matte up 1" from the bottom is too much.  1/8" is 
more like it.  At 1" you'd see the difference but at 1/8" it's just 
enough to fool the eye into thinking the top and bottom are even.

Hope that helps a little.

Tom

Patrick,

Although some might think 16 x 20 is too much matt for a smaller, 
say 5x7 inches, it is completely a matter of taste. Generally you 
should leave more matt at the bottom of a print than top due to the 
top-heavy illusion. When there is more matt at the top it looks as 
if the print will fall off the wall. More matt at the bottom gives 
the print a base and gives the illusion that it is more solid on the 
wall. My own preference is for more white space separating the print 
from the world. I usually matt an 8x8 inch print to a vertical 16 x 
20 board. I think a 4 x 5 contact print looks great matted to 14 x 
17 inches. As I said, it is a matter of taste and there is no 
accepted rule.

Bill


www.billschwab.com

Patrick: It's an artistic decision.  I don't print very large (5x7 up to
11x16 or so usually), and have everything framed in a black gallery
(Nielsen)frame, 16x20, white museum rag board in a window mount.  Light
Impressions makes a nifty T-square that shows the correct position on the
backing matte for a perceived optical center.  My formula is that the window
opening is then a 1/2" border on top and sides, and a 1.25" bottom border.
Opinions will certainly vary, but to me an exhibit of 20-30 prints with
varying frame sizes is somewhat "cluttered".  Probably just an
obsessive-compulsive streak.

Regards,

  --Ken Carney
    www.kencarney.com 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: pjkealey [mailto:pjkealey@...] 
> Sent: Monday, February 02, 2004 11:41 AM
> To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Digital BW] Frame size and matting
> 
> Several months ago (6-8) there was a thread related to frame 
> size and mat cutting for exhibiting prints. I tried to search 
> the archives but was not successful.  the issues are - I have 
> 12 prints of various sizes(5x7-11x15) that need to be matted 
> and framed. I understand to use 16x20 frame size for all 
> sizes( is that correct?) for consistancy, and to cut the mat 
> 1" higher from the bottom? any help would be appreciated.

On the other hand, I find an exhibit of all the same size print and frame to be unexciting.  Different sized prints in the same size frame is a litte less static.  But that doesn't address what looks good for an individual print.  
 
Tom Baker

Ken Carney <kcarney1@...> wrote:
Patrick: It's an artistic decision.  I don't print very large (5x7 up to
11x16 or so usually), and have everything framed in a black gallery
(Nielsen)frame, 16x20, white museum rag board in a window mount.  Light
Impressions makes a nifty T-square that shows the correct position on the
backing matte for a perceived optical center.  My formula is that the window
opening is then a 1/2" border on top and sides, and a 1.25" bottom border.
Opinions will certainly vary, but to me an exhibit of 20-30 prints with
varying frame sizes is somewhat "cluttered".  Probably just an
obsessive-compulsive streak.

Regards,

  --Ken Carney
    www.kencarney.com 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: pjkealey [mailto:pjkealey@...] 
> Sent: Monday, February 02, 2004 11:41 AM
> To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Digital BW] Frame size and matting
> 
> Several months ago (6-8) there was a thread related to frame 
> size and mat cutting for exhibiting prints. I tried to search 
> the archives but was not successful.  the issues are - I have 
> 12 prints of various sizes(5x7-11x15) that need to be matted 
> and framed. I understand to use 16x20 frame size for all 
> sizes( is that correct?) for consistancy, and to cut the mat 
> 1" higher from the bottom? any help would be appreciated.



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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>Message: 7
  > Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2004 15:12:34 EST

   From: MartyF2938@...
>Subject: Re:Frame size and matting

>In a message dated 2/2/2004 2:25:42 PM Eastern Standard Time, 
DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com writes:
Frame size and matting
>Where are you located. I own a frame shop and use a CMC (Computerized 
>Mat 
>Cutter). If I can help you out, I'd be glad to.
>Marty
 
Marty,
 I am located in the Northwest suburbs of Chicago-
Patrick


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

In a message dated 2/3/2004 2:50:54 PM Eastern Standard Time, 
DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com writes:
Frame size and matting

Sorry, I'm located just north of NYC. Once you get into packing and shipping 
the costs become prohibitive. I thought that if you were close, you could stop 
by, but alas...
Marty


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

"Salons" usually don't look at much of anything under 11X14. If "keeping the
judges happy" isn't one of your criteria for matt size, I like an concept
that seems to work for me: for every image, there's a print size, mount size
and mount color. Experiment to find the right one; one of the prints I've
been happiest with is 8"X20", flush mounted.

QUESTION: in silver photography, prints are affixed to a mounting board
backing using an archival dry mount tissue and a press. Both the cover
(window) board and the backing are archival, and the two are held together
with more dry mount tissue pieces. What is the usual practice for digital
prints? I'm interested in both inks and pigments.

Thanks, folks.

Paul: I use a Seal dry-mount press to mount inkjet prints with no problems.
See Ansel Adams' book "The Print" for the correct procedure, especially the
part about using layers of _dry_ museum board and low-temp mounting tissue.
Incidentally, the mount board and the overmatte are typically not bonded
with dry-mount tissue.  Rather, they are hinged with linen tape, Tyvek or
similar tape.

I like your comment about a right combination for every print.  I've always
followed a rigid formula for matting and framing.  Today I went in a gallery
that handles some of my stuff, to buy a birthday present for my wife, and
saw the owner had matted and framed some small prints with a black (almost
black) over-matte.  My first thought was whether the law would say I was at
fault for the killing.  I've always thought that dark (or dismal gray, such
as matte board made with pulp), soaks up light, whereas you want the
illusion of radiating light.  But I'll have to admit, for these photos
(infrared with a "platinum" tone) the effect was pretty good.  Always
something new to learn.

Regards,

  --Ken Carney
    www.kencarney.com  

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Paul W. Antrim [mailto:pantrim@...] 
> Sent: Saturday, February 07, 2004 5:57 PM
> To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Frame size and matting
> 
> "Salons" usually don't look at much of anything under 11X14. 
> If "keeping the judges happy" isn't one of your criteria for 
> matt size, I like an concept that seems to work for me: for 
> every image, there's a print size, mount size and mount 
> color. Experiment to find the right one; one of the prints 
> I've been happiest with is 8"X20", flush mounted.
> 
> QUESTION: in silver photography, prints are affixed to a 
> mounting board backing using an archival dry mount tissue and 
> a press. Both the cover
> (window) board and the backing are archival, and the two are 
> held together with more dry mount tissue pieces. What is the 
> usual practice for digital prints? I'm interested in both 
> inks and pigments.
> 
> Thanks, folks.

I've seen fine art pints (including Ansel's) that were 16X20 or larger; even these had a white undermatt. I do agree the matting (if right color and quality) really does contribute to the image!

Thanks for the comment on linen tape; I'll give it a try.

I've (both editions) of "The Print"; truly inspiring, even if a bit outdated as to materials. Having been able to attend AA's workshop (1962-a graduation present) and watch AA, Al and Gerry print and mount truly got me going on good photography!

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> Having been able to attend AA's workshop (1962-a graduation present) and
watch AA, Al 
> and Gerry print and mount truly got me going on good photography!

Lucky you.  I've been able to attend workshops by two of his assistants,
John Sexton and Ted Orland.  Most of the lessons learned carry over to b&w
digital nicely.  In that vein, I bought a book the other day, "The Digital
Photolab" by George Schaub.  I'm not sure what to make of it yet, but it
focuses on b&w and replicating alternative processes such as albumen.  Can't
argue with his results.

Regards,

  --Ken Carney
    www.kencarney.com

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Paul W. 
Antrim" <pantrim@s...> wrote:

...

> QUESTION: in silver photography, prints are affixed to a mounting 
board
> backing using an archival dry mount tissue and a press. Both the 
cover
> (window) board and the backing are archival, and the two are held 
together
> with more dry mount tissue pieces. What is the usual practice for 
digital
> prints? I'm interested in both inks and pigments.
> 
> Thanks, folks.

I don't know too much about "usual practice" but I use archival 
corners to fix the print to an archival backing board with an 
archival bevel matte overlaying the edges of the print.  This does 
an excellent job of holding the whole print flat.  And, this way 
it's easy to change the matte and/or backing board should they 
become damaged.  And is a sight cheaper and quicker than dry 
mounting.

The fact that inkjet papers are so flat (compared with fibre based 
silver paper) is the deciding factor here.

Steve Gledhill
www.virtuallygrey.co.uk