Digital BW, The Print

I notice on the MIS website that the Epson 890 and 1280 use the 
exact same UT2 ink cartridges. I also notice that Paul's workflow 
curves are the same. I would like to ease into this B&W inkjet 
printing without spending a fortune. Since the 890 is much less 
expensive, I was wondering if I can expect the same print quality 
from this printer as from the 1280. Is there a difference in the 
print head, affecting the quality, or is the 890 just a smaller 
format version of the 1280?
Thanks for the response,
Steve

I think they are identical.  I've seen output from both and they look 
the same.

mark

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "sdowell00" 
<sdowell@s...> wrote:

> I notice on the MIS website that the Epson 890 and 1280 use the 
> exact same UT2 ink cartridges. I also notice that Paul's workflow 
> curves are the same. I would like to ease into this B&W inkjet 
> printing without spending a fortune. Since the 890 is much less 
> expensive, I was wondering if I can expect the same print quality 
> from this printer as from the 1280. Is there a difference in the 
> print head, affecting the quality, or is the 890 just a smaller 
> format version of the 1280?
> Thanks for the response,
> Steve

I have both a 1280 and 890. They seem identical except for two
aspects. 1) the smaller max print size and 2) the color cart in the
890 is a bit smaller. That means there are different color carts for
1280 & 890. The black cart is the same. The color carts seem to work
the same, only difference being the 890 holds less ink. 

I find a very seldom print bigger than 8.5x11 so the 890 was a real
deal for me. 

Why do I have two printers? My 890 has color inks. I seldom print
photos in color but it's nice for general printing tasks.

Bob Michaels

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "sdowell00"
<sdowell@s...> wrote:

> I notice on the MIS website that the Epson 890 and 1280 use the 
> exact same UT2 ink cartridges. I also notice that Paul's workflow 
> curves are the same. I would like to ease into this B&W inkjet 
> printing without spending a fortune. Since the 890 is much less 
> expensive, I was wondering if I can expect the same print quality 
> from this printer as from the 1280. Is there a difference in the 
> print head, affecting the quality, or is the 890 just a smaller 
> format version of the 1280?
> Thanks for the response,
> Steve

Bob,
What kind of mileage do you get out of the UT2 carts, say in 
terms of 8X10s or in relation to the standard Epson inksets?
I'm considering switching to UT2 (tired of trying to eliminate the 
green color cast in the midtones) and buying either a C84 or a 
1280 (I do mostly 8X10). But I'm concerned that the UT2 will 
push up my ink costs and trying to get an idea of how usage 
compares with standard Epson ink costs.
George Le Masurier

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Bob 
Michaels" <bob@b...> wrote:
> I have both a 1280 and 890. They seem identical except for two
> aspects. 1) the smaller max print size and 2) the color cart in 
the
> 890 is a bit smaller. That means there are different color carts 
for
> 1280 & 890. The black cart is the same. The color carts seem 
to work
> the same, only difference being the 890 holds less ink. 
> 
> I find a very seldom print bigger than 8.5x11 so the 890 was a 
real
> deal for me. 
> 
> Why do I have two printers? My 890 has color inks. I seldom 
print
> photos in color but it's nice for general printing tasks.
> 
> Bob Michaels
> 
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, 
"sdowell00"
> <sdowell@s...> wrote:
> > I notice on the MIS website that the Epson 890 and 1280 use 
the 
> > exact same UT2 ink cartridges. I also notice that Paul's 
workflow 
> > curves are the same. I would like to ease into this B&W inkjet 
> > printing without spending a fortune. Since the 890 is much 
less 
> > expensive, I was wondering if I can expect the same print 
quality 

> > from this printer as from the 1280. Is there a difference in the 
> > print head, affecting the quality, or is the 890 just a smaller 
> > format version of the 1280?
> > Thanks for the response,
> > Steve

George, I must admit that I don't keep track of how much ink I use as
I have a CFS for my 1280. The cost is nominal enough so that it's just
not a factor. 

Bob Michaels

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "glemasurier"
<george.lemasurier@m...> wrote:

> Bob,
> What kind of mileage do you get out of the UT2 carts, say in 
> terms of 8X10s or in relation to the standard Epson inksets?
> I'm considering switching to UT2 (tired of trying to eliminate the 
> green color cast in the midtones) and buying either a C84 or a 
> 1280 (I do mostly 8X10). But I'm concerned that the UT2 will 
> push up my ink costs and trying to get an idea of how usage 
> compares with standard Epson ink costs.
> George Le Masurier
> 
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Bob 
> Michaels" <bob@b...> wrote:
> > I have both a 1280 and 890. They seem identical except for two
> > aspects. 1) the smaller max print size and 2) the color cart in 
> the
> > 890 is a bit smaller. That means there are different color carts 
> for
> > 1280 & 890. The black cart is the same. The color carts seem 
> to work
> > the same, only difference being the 890 holds less ink. 
> > 
> > I find a very seldom print bigger than 8.5x11 so the 890 was a 
> real
> > deal for me. 
> > 
> > Why do I have two printers? My 890 has color inks. I seldom 
> print
> > photos in color but it's nice for general printing tasks.
> > 
> > Bob Michaels
> > 
> > --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, 
> "sdowell00"
> > <sdowell@s...> wrote:
> > > I notice on the MIS website that the Epson 890 and 1280 use 
> the 
> > > exact same UT2 ink cartridges. I also notice that Paul's 
> workflow 
> > > curves are the same. I would like to ease into this B&W inkjet 
> > > printing without spending a fortune. Since the 890 is much 
> less 
> > > expensive, I was wondering if I can expect the same print 
> quality 
> > > from this printer as from the 1280. Is there a difference in the 
> > > print head, affecting the quality, or is the 890 just a smaller 
> > > format version of the 1280?
> > > Thanks for the response,
> > > Steve

Steve,

I'm a first time user and just loaded my 890 with UT2 inks and have 
received phenomenal results!  Although I have to admit, I was 
seriously concerned about filling my own carts, I ordered the virgin 
empties and the 4oz inks bottles.  I followed the included 
directions, let the carts rest overnight and I'm happy to say, I'm 
cranking-out beatiful black and white prints!  Unless the larger 
format of the 1280 is important to you, I'd suggest the 890.



--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "sdowell00" 
<sdowell@s...> wrote:

> I notice on the MIS website that the Epson 890 and 1280 use the 
> exact same UT2 ink cartridges. I also notice that Paul's workflow 
> curves are the same. I would like to ease into this B&W inkjet 
> printing without spending a fortune. Since the 890 is much less 
> expensive, I was wondering if I can expect the same print quality 
> from this printer as from the 1280. Is there a difference in the 
> print head, affecting the quality, or is the 890 just a smaller 
> format version of the 1280?
> Thanks for the response,
> Steve

has anyone ever put together a comparison of the gradients produced 
by the different hex/quadtone inksets/workflows?  Stepwedges only 
show gross correctness and comments on best prints from each system 
only show the best that you can expect, but potentially hide gross 
flaws in each system.  Seems like this would be informative since a 
smooth gradient will show the entire tonal space and the smoothness 
that you can achieve... which is a realistic test as well since you 
just might want to shoot a sidelit white column sometime and might 
want to know in advance if your printer/setup will be able to output 
the tones or posterize them to death.  I understand that many users 
are emotionally attached to their chosen system, but... I am looking 
for the best system for me.  Using an 1160 and willing to change to 
any inkset/workflow that will produce the smoothest gradient (don't 
have the time, energy or money to purchase each and run exhautive 
tests myself...)

Also, if this has never been done and people are willing to help I 
would collect results and then scan and publish them on the web.  All 
we'd have to do is agree on a standardized b->w gradient file to 
print to insure consistancy, have everyone print a copy and then send 
them to me.  I think it would be a great resource for the digital b&w 
community.  Please contact me on or off list if you are willing to 
participate. 

thanks for all advice,

mark

The OffsetGradient tif file (in the list files archive) is also very 
useful for diagnosing flat spot or breaks that can lead to 
posterization.  You can also use a softproof profile for your printing 
curves or profiles with this Offset gradient to preview potential 
problems in Photoshop without actually printing.  Here is a screen grab 
from PS showing the original Offset gradient file on top and a copy 
below with a softproof of a QTR printing profile applied.  The diagonal 
band that appears in the shadow area suggests that this particular 
profile needs some work:
http://homepage.mac.com/scho/offset.jpg

Carl

On Thursday, February 5, 2004, at 11:24  AM, Mark Hahn wrote:

> has anyone ever put together a comparison of the gradients produced
> by the different hex/quadtone inksets/workflows?  Stepwedges only
> show gross correctness and comments on best prints from each system
> only show the best that you can expect, but potentially hide gross
> flaws in each system.  Seems like this would be informative since a
> smooth gradient will show the entire tonal space and the smoothness
> that you can achieve... which is a realistic test as well since you
> just might want to shoot a sidelit white column sometime and might
> want to know in advance if your printer/setup will be able to output
> the tones or posterize them to death.  I understand that many users
> are emotionally attached to their chosen system, but... I am looking
> for the best system for me.  Using an 1160 and willing to change to
> any inkset/workflow that will produce the smoothest gradient (don't
> have the time, energy or money to purchase each and run exhautive
> tests myself...)
>
> Also, if this has never been done and people are willing to help I
> would collect results and then scan and publish them on the web.  All
> we'd have to do is agree on a standardized b->w gradient file to
> print to insure consistancy, have everyone print a copy and then send
> them to me.  I think it would be a great resource for the digital b&w
> community.  Please contact me on or off list if you are willing to
> participate.
>
> thanks for all advice,
>

Good idea.

Do you think a high res version (8 X 10 @300dpi) of this image would 
suffice?

http://www.mikesommers.com/clockgradient.jpg

If so, I can put a high-res version on my server and distribute the URL 
to this list.

m

Mark Hahn wrote:

> has anyone ever put together a comparison of the gradients produced
> by the different hex/quadtone inksets/workflows? Stepwedges only
> show gross correctness and comments on best prints from each system
> only show the best that you can expect, but potentially hide gross
> flaws in each system. Seems like this would be informative since a
> smooth gradient will show the entire tonal space and the smoothness
> that you can achieve... which is a realistic test as well since you
> just might want to shoot a sidelit white column sometime and might
> want to know in advance if your printer/setup will be able to output
> the tones or posterize them to death. I understand that many users
> are emotionally attached to their chosen system, but... I am looking
> for the best system for me. Using an 1160 and willing to change to
> any inkset/workflow that will produce the smoothest gradient (don't
> have the time, energy or money to purchase each and run exhautive
> tests myself...)
>
> Also, if this has never been done and people are willing to help I
> would collect results and then scan and publish them on the web. All
> we'd have to do is agree on a standardized b->w gradient file to
> print to insure consistancy, have everyone print a copy and then send
> them to me. I think it would be a great resource for the digital b&w
> community. Please contact me on or off list if you are willing to
> participate.
>
> thanks for all advice,
>
> mark
>
>
>
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other 
> resources as they are often being updated.
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
>
> If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish 
> to unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting 
> this same page.
>
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to 
> keep them short.
> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or 
> flames. Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from 
> the membership without notice.
> - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital 
> B&W printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be 
> removed from the membership.
> - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and 
> guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group 
> Owner and Moderators. See \ufffdGroup Topic, Rules and Guidelines\ufffd in the 
> Files section:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/
>
> BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE 
> PRINT YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE \ufffdOWNER\ufffd 
> AND \ufffdMODERATORS\ufffd OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE 
> LIABLE TO YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, 
> CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, 
> DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE 
> LOSSES (EVEN IF THE \ufffdOWNER\ufffd AND \ufffdMODERATORS\ufffd OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT 
> YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), 
> RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, 
> THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR ALTERATION OF 
> YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD 
> PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER 
> MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP.
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> ADVERTISEMENT
> <http://rd.yahoo.com/SIG=12c0vteda/M=267637.4116730.5333196.1261774/D=egroupweb/S=1705019182:HM/EXP=1076084766/A=1945637/R=0/*http://www.netflix.com/Default?mqso=60178397&partid=4116730> 
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>     * To visit your group on the web, go to:
>       http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/
>     * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>       DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>       <mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>
>     * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
>       Service <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>.
>
>

Carl

I just tried to find this tif file in the archives.  Perhaps I am blind but
I couldn¹t see it.  Can you point me to it...

Thanks

Steve

From: Carl Schofield <scho@...>
Reply-To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2004 12:39:58 -0500
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Digital BW] smoothest gradient from hex/quadtone?

The OffsetGradient tif file (in the list files archive) is also very
useful for diagnosing flat spot or breaks that can lead to
posterization.  


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Steve,

In the Image Processing folder > OffsetGrad.jpg.  I thought there was 
also a tif file, but apparently not.

Carl

On Thursday, February 5, 2004, at 01:23  PM, Steve Kale wrote:

> Carl
>
> I just tried to find this tif file in the archives.  Perhaps I am 
> blind but
> I couldn’t see it.  Can you point me to it...
>
> Thanks
>
> Steve
>
>
> From: Carl Schofield <scho@...>
> Reply-To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2004 12:39:58 -0500
> To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [Digital BW] smoothest gradient from hex/quadtone?
>
> The OffsetGradient tif file (in the list files archive) is also very
> useful for diagnosing flat spot or breaks that can lead to
> posterization.

Thanks, I was blind!

> From: Carl Schofield <scho@...>
> Reply-To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2004 13:26:20 -0500
> To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [Digital BW] smoothest gradient from hex/quadtone?
> 
> Steve,
> 
> In the Image Processing folder > OffsetGrad.jpg.  I thought there was
> also a tif file, but apparently not.
> 
> Carl
>

Carl

Sorry to hark back to this but have you tried printing this with your 2200
QTR curves?  I just printed it with EEM 50:50 warm:cool on EEM.  There is a
very clear step change in the black in the high 90s suggesting that the
black doesn¹t scale to its max but rather scales to a lower dMax level and
then punches to max black in the high 90s.  I can see a clear line stepping
down from about 98 on the top scale to the same level on the bottom scale.
The gradation to the right of this line clearly begins at a lighter shade.
Every  other part of the image exhibits a smooth transition. I am wondering
whether I have something wrong with my printer or whether the ink
limits/boost on these curves need a rethink....

Steve

From: Carl Schofield <scho@...>
Reply-To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2004 12:39:58 -0500
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Digital BW] smoothest gradient from hex/quadtone?

The OffsetGradient tif file (in the list files archive) is also very
useful for diagnosing flat spot or breaks that can lead to
posterization.  


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I was thinking that simple is better here... maybe a 2x8" linear 
gradient would be easiest to compare since they could all be stacked 
up for a direct comparison.  The question as to size is a whole other 
issue though since each driver will probably deal with steepness of 
the gradient differently.

mark

Steve,

I haven't printed the EEM profiles recently (I'm working with UT inks 
right now and glossy papers), but most of my profiles show a jump with 
the OffsetGrad image at around 99% to 100%.  I'm not sure how you would 
deal with this or if it is even something to be concerned about as long 
as you are not seeing shadow gradient problems in real life prints.  
Perhaps Roy has some suggestions.  I'd be much more concerned if there 
were distinct bands in the mid tones or quarter tones where they are 
more likely to cause problems in real images with smooth tonal 
gradients in these lighter areas.

Carl

On Thursday, February 5, 2004, at 02:11  PM, Steve Kale wrote:

> Carl
>
> Sorry to hark back to this but have you tried printing this with your 
> 2200
> QTR curves?  I just printed it with EEM 50:50 warm:cool on EEM.  There 
> is a
> very clear step change in the black in the high 90s suggesting that the
> black doesn’t scale to its max but rather scales to a lower dMax level 
> and
> then punches to max black in the high 90s.  I can see a clear line 
> stepping
> down from about 98 on the top scale to the same level on the bottom 
> scale.
> The gradation to the right of this line clearly begins at a lighter 
> shade.
> Every  other part of the image exhibits a smooth transition. I am 
> wondering
> whether I have something wrong with my printer or whether the ink
> limits/boost on these curves need a rethink....
>
> Steve
>
>
> From: Carl Schofield <scho@...>
> Reply-To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2004 12:39:58 -0500
> To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [Digital BW] smoothest gradient from hex/quadtone?
>
> The OffsetGradient tif file (in the list files archive) is also very
> useful for diagnosing flat spot or breaks that can lead to
> posterization.
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other 
> resources as they are often being updated.
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
>
> If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish 
> to unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting 
> this same page.
>
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to 
> keep them short.
> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or 
> flames. Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from 
> the membership without notice.
> - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital 
> B&W printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be 
> removed from the membership.
> - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and 
> guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group 
> Owner and Moderators. See „Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines‰ in the 
> Files section:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/
>
> BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE 
> PRINT YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE „OWNER‰ 
> AND „MODERATORS‰ OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE 
> LIABLE TO YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, 
> CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, 
> DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE 
> LOSSES (EVEN IF THE  „OWNER‰ AND „MODERATORS‰ OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT 
> YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), 
> RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, 
> THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR ALTERATION OF 
> YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD 
> PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER 
> MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP.
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>

Yes please, Mike.  I think this would be a great help for my aging eyes .
Glenn

----- Original Message ----- 

From: "Mike Sommers" <mike@...>
To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, February 05, 2004 9:42 AM
Subject: Re: [Digital BW] smoothest gradient from hex/quadtone?
> Do you think a high res version (8 X 10 @300dpi) of this image would 
> suffice?
> 
> http://www.mikesommers.com/clockgradient.jpg
> 
> If so, I can put a high-res version on my server and distribute the URL 
> to this list.

You can download a version of my circular gradient (8x10 @300dpi) from 
the following link:

http://www.reverendhookems.com/clockgradient.jpg

It's a 20 MB file, so it will take a while for users on dial up connections.

m

Glenn Thureson wrote:

>Yes please, Mike.  I think this would be a great help for my aging eyes .
>Glenn
>
>----- Original Message ----- 
>From: "Mike Sommers" <mike@...>
>To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
>Sent: Thursday, February 05, 2004 9:42 AM
>Subject: Re: [Digital BW] smoothest gradient from hex/quadtone?
>  
>
>>Do you think a high res version (8 X 10 @300dpi) of this image would 
>>suffice?
>>
>>http://www.mikesommers.com/clockgradient.jpg
>>
>>If so, I can put a high-res version on my server and distribute the URL 
>>to this list.
>>    
>>
>
>
>
>Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other resources as they are often being updated.
>
>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
>
>If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same page.
>
>Please follow these basic guidelines:
>- As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep them short.
>- Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames. Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from the membership without notice.
>- Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital B&W printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be removed from the membership.
>- By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group Owner and Moderators. See �Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines� in the Files section:
>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/
>
>BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE �OWNER� AND �MODERATORS� OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE LIABLE TO YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE  �OWNER� AND �MODERATORS� OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP.
> 
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
> 
>
>
>
>  
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Carl

Thanks. My concern, and perhaps it is an unfounded one (I am still very much
a newbie here), is that images may effectively lack punch because only those
areas of the image that are pushed to 100% black are printed dark.  Midtones
might be smooth but if the step near the 100% end is too great then images
may appear flat and print lighter than they are on the screen.  If we proof
and then correct, don't we end up simply slamming more of the image into
100% black?

I know that Roy recently bought a 2200 and may take a look at this.  I was
simply eager to see if I was viewing an anomaly or not.

Steve

> From: Carl Schofield <scho@...>
> Reply-To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2004 15:45:25 -0500
> To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [Digital BW] smoothest gradient from hex/quadtone?
> 
> Steve,
> 
> I haven't printed the EEM profiles recently (I'm working with UT inks
> right now and glossy papers), but most of my profiles show a jump with
> the OffsetGrad image at around 99% to 100%.  I'm not sure how you would
> deal with this or if it is even something to be concerned about as long
> as you are not seeing shadow gradient problems in real life prints.
> Perhaps Roy has some suggestions.  I'd be much more concerned if there
> were distinct bands in the mid tones or quarter tones where they are
> more likely to cause problems in real images with smooth tonal
> gradients in these lighter areas.
> 
> Carl

Didn't Clayton already do this? He sent me a file to print and it
included a grad.
Tyler

Sorry Mike, am I missing something...when I go to this link I get the image
on my screen but not a download....

> From: Mike Sommers <mike@...>
> Reply-To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Thu, 05 Feb 2004 18:16:54 -0500
> To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [Digital BW] smoothest gradient from hex/quadtone?
> 
> You can download a version of my circular gradient (8x10 @300dpi) from
> the following link:
> 
> http://www.reverendhookems.com/clockgradient.jpg
> 
> It's a 20 MB file, so it will take a while for users on dial up connections.
> 
> m
>

If you're using a PC, right-click on the image and select "Save Picture 
As..." from the dialog that pops up.

If you're using a Mac, I believe you can just click and drag the image 
to your desktop.

m

Steve Kale wrote:

> Sorry Mike, am I missing something...when I go to this link I get the 
> image
> on my screen but not a download....
>
> > From: Mike Sommers <mike@...>
> > Reply-To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> > Date: Thu, 05 Feb 2004 18:16:54 -0500
> > To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: Re: [Digital BW] smoothest gradient from hex/quadtone?
> >
> > You can download a version of my circular gradient (8x10 @300dpi) from
> > the following link:
> >
> > http://www.reverendhookems.com/clockgradient.jpg
> >
> > It's a 20 MB file, so it will take a while for users on dial up 
> connections.
> >
> > m
> >
>
>
>
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other 
> resources as they are often being updated.
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
>
> If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish 
> to unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting 
> this same page.
>
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to 
> keep them short.
> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or 
> flames. Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from 
> the membership without notice.
> - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital 
> B&W printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be 
> removed from the membership.
> - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and 
> guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group 
> Owner and Moderators. See "Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines" in the 
> Files section:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/
>
> BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE 
> PRINT YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE "OWNER" 
> AND "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE 
> LIABLE TO YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, 
> CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, 
> DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE 
> LOSSES (EVEN IF THE  "OWNER" AND "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT 
> YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), 
> RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, 
> THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR ALTERATION OF 
> YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD 
> PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER 
> MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP.
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> ADVERTISEMENT
> <http://rd.yahoo.com/SIG=12cfmuaar/M=268585.4521611.5694062.1261774/D=egroupweb/S=1705019182:HM/EXP=1076181354/A=1950447/R=0/*http://ashnin.com/clk/muryutaitakenattogyo?YH=4521611&yhad=1950447> 
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>     * To visit your group on the web, go to:
>       http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/
>        
>     * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>       DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>       <mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>
>        
>     * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
>       Service <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>.
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

thanks

From: Mike Sommers <mike@...>
Reply-To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Date: Fri, 06 Feb 2004 14:35:56 -0500
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Digital BW] smoothest gradient from hex/quadtone?

If you're using a PC, right-click on the image and select "Save Picture
As..." from the dialog that pops up.

If you're using a Mac, I believe you can just click and drag the image
to your desktop.

m




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

ok, there apparently isn't a reference comparing the gradients from 
the major inksets/workflows/RIPs... are there any volunteers to 
submit a gradient?  I can do 1160+VM+Roark and 2200+IP.

thanks,

mark

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Steve Kale 
<stevekale@b...> wrote:
> thanks
> 
> 
> From: Mike Sommers <mike@s...>
> Reply-To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Fri, 06 Feb 2004 14:35:56 -0500
> To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [Digital BW] smoothest gradient from hex/quadtone?
> 
> If you're using a PC, right-click on the image and select "Save 
Picture
> As..." from the dialog that pops up.
> 
> If you're using a Mac, I believe you can just click and drag the 
image

> to your desktop.
> 
> m
> 
> 
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

What's wrong with the one I submitted yesterday?

www.reverendhookems.com/clockgradient.jpg

I can do a 1280 + UT-2 + Roark Neutral on Epson Enhanced Matte and Epson 
Heavyweight Matte.

I can also do a 1280 + MIS Eboni + Clayton Jones' Digital Tri-X (Black 
Only) method on the same papers

-m

Mark Hahn wrote:

> ok, there apparently isn't a reference comparing the gradients from
> the major inksets/workflows/RIPs... are there any volunteers to
> submit a gradient?  I can do 1160+VM+Roark and 2200+IP.
>
> thanks,
>
> mark
>
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Steve Kale
> <stevekale@b...> wrote:
> > thanks
> >
> >
> > From: Mike Sommers <mike@s...>
> > Reply-To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> > Date: Fri, 06 Feb 2004 14:35:56 -0500
> > To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: Re: [Digital BW] smoothest gradient from hex/quadtone?
> >
> > If you're using a PC, right-click on the image and select "Save
> Picture
> > As..." from the dialog that pops up.
> >
> > If you're using a Mac, I believe you can just click and drag the
> image
> > to your desktop.
> >
> > m
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other 
> resources as they are often being updated.
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
>
> If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish 
> to unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting 
> this same page.
>
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to 
> keep them short.
> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or 
> flames. Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from 
> the membership without notice.
> - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital 
> B&W printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be 
> removed from the membership.
> - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and 
> guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group 
> Owner and Moderators. See "Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines" in the 
> Files section:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/
>
> BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE 
> PRINT YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE "OWNER" 
> AND "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE 
> LIABLE TO YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, 
> CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, 
> DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE 
> LOSSES (EVEN IF THE  "OWNER" AND "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT 
> YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), 
> RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, 
> THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR ALTERATION OF 
> YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD 
> PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER 
> MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP.
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> ADVERTISEMENT
> <http://rd.yahoo.com/SIG=12c15hgn4/M=268585.4521611.5694062.1261774/D=egroupweb/S=1705019182:HM/EXP=1076192844/A=1950447/R=0/*http://ashnin.com/clk/muryutaitakenattogyo?YH=4521611&yhad=1950447> 
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>     * To visit your group on the web, go to:
>       http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/
>        
>     * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>       DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>       <mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>
>        
>     * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
>       Service <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>.
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> From: Mark Hahn [mailto:markhahn2000@...]
>
> ok, there apparently isn't a reference comparing the gradients from
> the major inksets/workflows/RIPs... are there any volunteers to
> submit a gradient?  I can do 1160+VM+Roark and 2200+IP.

What do you want, scans of printed output? That would allow us to see if any
workflows produced unexpected posterization, but it wouldn't allow us to
compare neutrality, etc., because everyone's scanners are different. I'd
like to see a combo of a gradient scan, and a list of Lab readings from a
step wedge.

--

Ciao,               Paul D. DeRocco
Paul                mailto:pderocco@...

I would prefer printed output, then I could scan them all with the 
same scanner and settings.  I wasn't that concerned with neutrality 
since I've only seen that as a problem with color mixed b&w which 
wasn't my intent, but if they are all scanned in color you could 
convert them to LAB and take readings... of course there is no 
guarentee that my scanner is any more perfectly color calibrated than 
anyone else's, though I have built a greyscale calibration curve.  If 
there are volunteers I'll post both a smooth gradient and stepwedge.

Contact me off-list to set this up.

I think this would be of service to the whole b&w printing community 
and should be almost no effort to anyone but myself:)

thanks,

mark

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Paul D. 
DeRocco" <pderocco@i...> wrote:
> > From: Mark Hahn [mailto:markhahn2000@y...]
> >
> > ok, there apparently isn't a reference comparing the gradients 
from
> > the major inksets/workflows/RIPs... are there any volunteers to
> > submit a gradient?  I can do 1160+VM+Roark and 2200+IP.
> 
> What do you want, scans of printed output? That would allow us to 
see if any
> workflows produced unexpected posterization, but it wouldn't allow 
us to
> compare neutrality, etc., because everyone's scanners are 
different. I'd
> like to see a combo of a gradient scan, and a list of Lab readings 
from a

> step wedge.
> 
> --
> 
> Ciao,               Paul D. DeRocco
> Paul                mailto:pderocco@i...

Hi,
Have no experience from printing on glossy paper and have now the 
possibility to try MIS UT1 with PhotoBlack.
Would appreciate any suggestion for a glossy or a semiglossy paper 
(available in Europe) that could be used for exhibition purpose.

Hans
-- 
Atelier Pictoform
Chia N-L�fqvist & Hans Nohlberg
Hed�sgatan 5
SE-412 53 G�teborg
SWEDEN

+46  (0)31181414

(Bes�k/visit Hed�sgatan 6)

http://www.artphotocollection.com

It is very spending in my mind but I’ve found that Oriental Graphica FB
Photo Paper Museum Weight (Gloss) is pretty impressive for B&W as a glossy.
In the States its about $1.65 for 8.5x11 and $6.30 for 13x19 a sheet.  I’m
not sure if its available in Europe yet.  Mostly this paper is too expensive
for me to use on a regular basis so I’ve only printed a few images with it.
For my use it worked very well to use the Epson Premium Gloss profiles in
Image Print 5.6 for B&W and the Epson Premium Gloss profiles from Photoshop
for color.

 

Regards,

 

David

 

  _____  

From: Hans Nohlberg [mailto:chiahans@...] 
Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2004 2:43 AM
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Digital BW] Glossy paper?

 

Hi,
Have no experience from printing on glossy paper and have now the 
possibility to try MIS UT1 with PhotoBlack.
Would appreciate any suggestion for a glossy or a semiglossy paper 
(available in Europe) that could be used for exhibition purpose.

Hans
-- 
Atelier Pictoform
Chia N-Löfqvist & Hans Nohlberg
Hedåsgatan 5
SE-412 53 Göteborg
SWEDEN

+46  (0)31181414

(Besök/visit Hedåsgatan 6)

http://www.artphotocollection.com


Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other resources as
they are often being updated.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint

If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to
unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same
page.

Please follow these basic guidelines:
- As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep
them short.
- Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames.
Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from the
membership without notice.
- Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital B&W
printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be removed from
the membership.
- By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and
guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group Owner and
Moderators. See “Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines” in the Files section:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/

BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT
YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE “OWNER” AND
“MODERATORS” OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE LIABLE TO YOU
FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY
DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS,
GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE  “OWNER” AND
“MODERATORS” OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE
POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY
TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR
ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY
THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER
MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP.





  _____  

Yahoo! Groups Links

*	To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/
  
*	To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
<mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Uns
ubscribe> 
  
*	Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
<http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>  Terms of Service. 



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hans,

>Have no experience from printing on glossy paper and have now the 
>possibility to try MIS UT1 with PhotoBlack.
>Would appreciate any suggestion for a glossy or a semiglossy paper 
>(available in Europe) that could be used for exhibition purpose.

I think the most impressive image might be on Ilford Galerie Smooth Pearl.
After it has dried, give it 3 - 4 light sprays with Lyson Print Guard.  This
gets rid of most of the "bronzing" and protects the print. Use Photo Quality
Ink Jet or Glossy Film paper setting to reduce the ink load.

Oriental Graphica FB would be near the bottom of my list -- weak dmax,
overly sensitive surface, and over priced.

The only "archival" glossy paper is the Epson Premium series.  I favor the
Premium Semigloss.  Again, it should be sprayed to reduce the bronzing and
protect the surface.  This can take a full load of ink -- Photo Paper
setting for example.

I did not distribute curves for glossy papers.  Frankly, UT2 was partially
about improving glossy paper performance.  Dirk Hobman has made some curves.
You might ask him about curves and workflow.  He's on this list.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com 

For UT2 information, curves, and settings see:
http://home1.gte.net/res09aij/

David and Paul,

Many thanks for your help, saves a lot of work.
Think I go for Epson Premium Semigloss or Ilford Galerie Smooth Pearl.
What about using Krylon (have a lot of it) instead of Lyson Print Guard?

Paul, "archival" Epson Premium papers?
If you compare HPR/UT1/Eboni and Premium Semigloss/UT1/Photo Black.
Would it be 70-100 years for HPR and 10-25 for Semigloss, or 
something like that?

Hans



>Hans,
>
>>Have no experience from printing on glossy paper and have now the
>>possibility to try MIS UT1 with PhotoBlack.
>>Would appreciate any suggestion for a glossy or a semiglossy paper
>>(available in Europe) that could be used for exhibition purpose.
>
>I think the most impressive image might be on Ilford Galerie Smooth Pearl.
>After it has dried, give it 3 - 4 light sprays with Lyson Print Guard.  This
>gets rid of most of the "bronzing" and protects the print. Use Photo Quality
>Ink Jet or Glossy Film paper setting to reduce the ink load.
>
>Oriental Graphica FB would be near the bottom of my list -- weak dmax,
>overly sensitive surface, and over priced.
>
>The only "archival" glossy paper is the Epson Premium series.  I favor the
>Premium Semigloss.  Again, it should be sprayed to reduce the bronzing and
>protect the surface.  This can take a full load of ink -- Photo Paper
>setting for example.
>
>I did not distribute curves for glossy papers.  Frankly, UT2 was partially
>about improving glossy paper performance.  Dirk Hobman has made some curves.
>You might ask him about curves and workflow.  He's on this list.
>
>Paul


-- 
Atelier Pictoform
Chia N-Löfqvist & Hans Nohlberg
Hedåsgatan 5
SE-412 53 Göteborg
SWEDEN

+46  (0)31181414

(Besök/visit Hedåsgatan 6)

http://www.artphotocollection.com

Hans,

>Think I go for Epson Premium Semigloss or Ilford Galerie Smooth Pearl.
>What about using Krylon (have a lot of it) instead of Lyson Print Guard?

Many of these sprays are about the same.  Krylon has so many it's hard to
generalize.  At least one that I used was fine.  Others have a gritty feel
like the matte sprays, which not only feel bad, but lower dmax.

One of the big differences I found was how the nozzle spread the spray.  The
Lyson, PremierArt, and apparently Marshall's (all appear to be the same)
have a good nozzle that makes getting an even coating easy.

>Paul, "archival" Epson Premium papers?

Well, who knows?  Wilhelm has the paper rated at ">200 years."  This is as
good as the cotton papers.  The Semigloss has a good image life rating from
Wilhelm also.  In some of my initial fade tests the Semigloss did very well
also.

>If you compare HPR/UT1/Eboni and Premium Semigloss/UT1/Photo Black.
>Would it be 70-100 years for HPR and 10-25 for Semigloss, or 
>something like that?

If you are talking Wilhelm years, the carbon inksets are well over those
numbers.  They beat the Epson Archival inkset.  I'd guess HPR is rated at
over 200 years of dark storage also, but I've never seen a rating.  

In the real world, I worry about HPR's sensitive coating.  I would not be
surprised if the Premium Semigloss lasted longer, but I worry about all of
these inkjet coatings.  There is just no way to test for all the gas &
pollution attacks and interactions of the coatings with the environment,
pigments, and sprays, although I think the carbon and acrylic sprays will be
relatively inert.  (I am assuming PremierArt, Lyson, etc. are acrylic, but
the one I'm most confident about is Lascaux Fixativ -- which is said to be
the famous Rolm & Haas B72 formula.)  

If you're really interested in long life, I think uncoated paper is the
medium to keep an eye on.  I'm getting up to 1.55 dmax and a smooth image
out of Arches Hot Press.  If I were to bet on a medium that will outlast the
others, it would be "carbon on cotton" not "carbon on inkjet coating of
unknown chemistry and longevity."

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com 

________________________________


>Hans,
>
>>Have no experience from printing on glossy paper and have now the
>>possibility to try MIS UT1 with PhotoBlack.
>>Would appreciate any suggestion for a glossy or a semiglossy paper
>>(available in Europe) that could be used for exhibition purpose.
>
>I think the most impressive image might be on Ilford Galerie Smooth Pearl.
>After it has dried, give it 3 - 4 light sprays with Lyson Print Guard.
This
>gets rid of most of the "bronzing" and protects the print. Use Photo
Quality
>Ink Jet or Glossy Film paper setting to reduce the ink load.
>
>Oriental Graphica FB would be near the bottom of my list -- weak dmax,
>overly sensitive surface, and over priced.
>
>The only "archival" glossy paper is the Epson Premium series.  I favor the
>Premium Semigloss.  Again, it should be sprayed to reduce the bronzing and
>protect the surface.  This can take a full load of ink -- Photo Paper
>setting for example.
>
>I did not distribute curves for glossy papers.  Frankly, UT2 was partially
>about improving glossy paper performance.  Dirk Hobman has made some
curves.
>You might ask him about curves and workflow.  He's on this list.
>
>Paul


-- 
Atelier Pictoform
Chia N-Löfqvist & Hans Nohlberg
Hedåsgatan 5
SE-412 53 Göteborg
SWEDEN

+46  (0)31181414

(Besök/visit Hedåsgatan 6)

http://www.artphotocollection.com



Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other resources as
they are often being updated.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint

If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to
unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same
page.

Please follow these basic guidelines:
- As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep
them short.
- Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames.
Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from the
membership without notice.
- Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital B&W
printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be removed from
the membership.
- By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and
guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group Owner and
Moderators. See “Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines” in the Files section:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/

BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT
YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE “OWNER” AND
“MODERATORS” OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE LIABLE TO YOU
FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY
DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS,
GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE  “OWNER” AND
“MODERATORS” OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE
POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY
TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR
ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY
THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER
MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP.
 
Yahoo! Groups Links

please unsubscribe
> 
> 
unsubscribe