Digital BW, The Print

Hi-

After seeing how far digital prints have improved, I am leaving my 
wet darkroom behind and going digital!

I have ordered a Nikon Coolscan V film scanner, a refurb Epson 1280 
printer, and will be purchasing the MIS CFS system, using the UT2 
with Eboni inks.

In my research, I am having some trouble understanding how to use 
the "curves" for obtaining a specific tone.  I have PS Elements 2.0 
(is this sufficient?) and I know we need to convert the greyscale 
image to RGB.  But reading the MIS website regarding Paul's curves 
for specific papers (I plan on using PhotoRag) I don't understand 
how they are to be applied.

For example, for photograg, it says "UT2-PhotoRag-Neutral-1" 
and "UT2-PhotoRag-Carbon-" and "UT2-PhotoRag-Sepia-1 (use 16 bit; 
there is only one sepia curve)".

What is the significance of the above? What exactly do we do in 
Photoshop to apply the curves?

I understand the application of obtaining tones using the Epson 
driver and moving the sliders for the C M and Y, it is the PS curves 
that I am struggling with.

Any help in this regard would be greatly appreciated!

Rob

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "bad2maxxx" 
<bad2maxxx@y...> wrote:
> Hi-
> 
> After seeing how far digital prints have improved, I am leaving my 
> wet darkroom behind and going digital!
> 
> I have ordered a Nikon Coolscan V film scanner, a refurb Epson 1280 
> printer, and will be purchasing the MIS CFS system, using the UT2 
> with Eboni inks.
> 
> In my research, I am having some trouble understanding how to use 
> the "curves" for obtaining a specific tone.  I have PS Elements 2.0 
> (is this sufficient?) and I know we need to convert the greyscale 
> image to RGB.  But reading the MIS website regarding Paul's curves 
> for specific papers (I plan on using PhotoRag) I don't understand 
> how they are to be applied.

Rob,

Photoshop Elements doesn't have the curve function so you won't be 
able to use it.  In Photoshop you'll change the image to RGB and then 
go to curves under Image>Adjustment.  When the curve box opens hit 
the load button and navigate to where you stored the curves.  Select 
one and apply.  Use the resulting image to print.

An alternative to Photoshop for applying curves is Picture Window Pro 
for around $50.  It's a very nice piece of software designed for 
digital images.

I'm not sure why the curves are numbered.

Hope that helps a little.

Tom

It is my understanding you can use a printer with the UT2 inks with 
Photoshop Elements or any other software using the slider in the 
driver to print from warm to neutral.  If you want to print warmer 
to sepia, or cooler you will have to have the "full-blown" version 
of Photoshop 5.5 or higher, or use the Picture Windows program and 
use the curves.  If I'm wrong somebody please correct me!

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "bad2maxxx" 
<bad2maxxx@y...> wrote:
> Hi-
> 
> After seeing how far digital prints have improved, I am leaving my 
> wet darkroom behind and going digital!
> 
> I have ordered a Nikon Coolscan V film scanner, a refurb Epson 
1280 
> printer, and will be purchasing the MIS CFS system, using the UT2 
> with Eboni inks.
> 
> In my research, I am having some trouble understanding how to use 
> the "curves" for obtaining a specific tone.  I have PS Elements 
2.0 
> (is this sufficient?) and I know we need to convert the greyscale 
> image to RGB.  But reading the MIS website regarding Paul's curves 
> for specific papers (I plan on using PhotoRag) I don't understand 
> how they are to be applied.
> 
> For example, for photograg, it says "UT2-PhotoRag-Neutral-1" 
> and "UT2-PhotoRag-Carbon-" and "UT2-PhotoRag-Sepia-1 (use 16 bit; 
> there is only one sepia curve)".
> 
> What is the significance of the above? What exactly do we do in 
> Photoshop to apply the curves?
> 
> I understand the application of obtaining tones using the Epson 
> driver and moving the sliders for the C M and Y, it is the PS 
curves 

> that I am struggling with.
> 
> Any help in this regard would be greatly appreciated!
> 
> Rob

Thanks for the responses!

Bummer about Elements not working with the curves.

I'll see how well things work just using the Epson driver.

Rob

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "randyrancier" 
<randyrancier@y...> wrote:
> It is my understanding you can use a printer with the UT2 inks 
with 
> Photoshop Elements or any other software using the slider in the 
> driver to print from warm to neutral.  If you want to print warmer 
> to sepia, or cooler you will have to have the "full-blown" version 
> of Photoshop 5.5 or higher, or use the Picture Windows program and 
> use the curves.  If I'm wrong somebody please correct me!
> 
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "bad2maxxx" 
> <bad2maxxx@y...> wrote:
> > Hi-
> > 
> > After seeing how far digital prints have improved, I am leaving 
my 
> > wet darkroom behind and going digital!
> > 
> > I have ordered a Nikon Coolscan V film scanner, a refurb Epson 
> 1280 
> > printer, and will be purchasing the MIS CFS system, using the 
UT2 
> > with Eboni inks.
> > 
> > In my research, I am having some trouble understanding how to 
use 
> > the "curves" for obtaining a specific tone.  I have PS Elements 
> 2.0 
> > (is this sufficient?) and I know we need to convert the 
greyscale 
> > image to RGB.  But reading the MIS website regarding Paul's 
curves 
> > for specific papers (I plan on using PhotoRag) I don't 
understand 
> > how they are to be applied.
> > 
> > For example, for photograg, it says "UT2-PhotoRag-Neutral-1" 
> > and "UT2-PhotoRag-Carbon-" and "UT2-PhotoRag-Sepia-1 (use 16 
bit; 

> > there is only one sepia curve)".
> > 
> > What is the significance of the above? What exactly do we do in 
> > Photoshop to apply the curves?
> > 
> > I understand the application of obtaining tones using the Epson 
> > driver and moving the sliders for the C M and Y, it is the PS 
> curves 
> > that I am struggling with.
> > 
> > Any help in this regard would be greatly appreciated!
> > 
> > Rob

Rob,

By any chance are you connected to a mac?  If so, you
could run quadtoneRIP and get similar results to the
curves.

Don
--- bad2maxxx <bad2maxxx@...> wrote:
> Thanks for the responses!
> 
> Bummer about Elements not working with the curves.
> 
> I'll see how well things work just using the Epson
> driver.
> 
> Rob
> 
> 


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Nope, I am using a PC.

Still trying to decide whether I should go full
photoshop or try the much cheaper alternative, Picture
Window.

Rob

--- "D. Hill" <hill14701@...> wrote:
> Rob,
> 
> By any chance are you connected to a mac?  If so,
> you
> could run quadtoneRIP and get similar results to the
> curves.
> 
> Don
> --- bad2maxxx <bad2maxxx@...> wrote:
> > Thanks for the responses!
> > 
> > Bummer about Elements not working with the curves.
> > 
> > I'll see how well things work just using the Epson
> > driver.
> > 
> > Rob
> > 
> > 
> 
> 
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing
> online.
> http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html
> 


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This seems like a stupid question, but I am having
difficulty downloading the UT2 curves.  I have
attempted to download them from Paul's website without
luck, and I can't locate them on the MIS website.

Any suggestions?

Thanks!



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Scratch that request, I finally figured it out!

Sorry!

--- Max Clark <bad2maxxx@...> wrote:
> 
> This seems like a stupid question, but I am having
> difficulty downloading the UT2 curves.  I have
> attempted to download them from Paul's website
> without
> luck, and I can't locate them on the MIS website.
> 
> Any suggestions?
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> 
> 
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard - Read only the mail you want.
> http://antispam.yahoo.com/tools
> 


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I've been playing with my new Epson 1280 and UT2 Ink
system over the weekend, and I am very pleased
overall.

However, there are times when I like really cool
tones.  It looks like the curves start at "neutral"
then "carbon" up to the warm sepia tones.

The neutral curve appears to be just that...very
neutral.  Are there any curves or recommendations on
how to get cooler prints than what the neutral curve
provides?

Thanks.


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>...there are times when I like really cool
>tones.  It looks like the curves start at "neutral"
>then "carbon" up to the warm sepia tones.

>The neutral curve appears to be just that...very
>neutral.  Are there any curves or recommendations on
>how to get cooler prints than what the neutral curve
>provides?

I agree cool curves would be good, but I have not had time to making them
yet.  I explained how to adjust the neutral curve for warmer or cooler
prints in my Readme file.  Basically, just make offsetting moves of the cyan
and magenta inks (red and green curves).

The one cool curve I did make, for PermaJet's Oyster paper, moved the
neutral Red curve down (adding more ink) 18 at 63 (that is, from (63, 93) to
(63, 75), 32 at 127 (the mid point), and 41 at 191.  I moved the green curve
up 22 at 63, 37 at 127, and 46 at 191.  That curve also has some shadow
point below 63 that had some offsetting moves.  The changed above took the
tone from neutral to 0.06 units cool.  (Carbon is 0.10 warm for comparison.)
I think about 0.06 units cold is getting close to as cool as I'd want to go
and still have a "normal" looking print.  If you go too far the print starts
looking blue instead of gray. 

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com 

For UT2 information, curves, and settings see:
http://home1.gte.net/res09aij/

Thanks for the quick response Paul!

I will give those numbers a try and see what happens.

I will look forward to you providing cool curves in
the (hopefully near) future.

Thanks for all your hard work in making the MIS UT2
ink set work as good as it does!  No more wet darkroom
for me!


--- Paul Roark <paul.roark@...> wrote:
> >...there are times when I like really cool
> >tones.  It looks like the curves start at "neutral"
> >then "carbon" up to the warm sepia tones.
> 
> >The neutral curve appears to be just that...very
> >neutral.  Are there any curves or recommendations
> on
> >how to get cooler prints than what the neutral
> curve
> >provides?
> 
> I agree cool curves would be good, but I have not
> had time to making them
> yet.  I explained how to adjust the neutral curve
> for warmer or cooler
> prints in my Readme file.  Basically, just make
> offsetting moves of the cyan
> and magenta inks (red and green curves).
> 
> The one cool curve I did make, for PermaJet's Oyster
> paper, moved the
> neutral Red curve down (adding more ink) 18 at 63
> (that is, from (63, 93) to
> (63, 75), 32 at 127 (the mid point), and 41 at 191. 
> I moved the green curve
> up 22 at 63, 37 at 127, and 46 at 191.  That curve
> also has some shadow
> point below 63 that had some offsetting moves.  The
> changed above took the
> tone from neutral to 0.06 units cool.  (Carbon is
> 0.10 warm for comparison.)
> I think about 0.06 units cold is getting close to as
> cool as I'd want to go
> and still have a "normal" looking print.  If you go
> too far the print starts
> looking blue instead of gray. 
> 
> Paul
> www.PaulRoark.com 
> 
> For UT2 information, curves, and settings see:
> http://home1.gte.net/res09aij/   
> 
> 


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