Digital BW, The Print

Greetings Digital Printmakers.  (cross posted)

There has been much discussion on this forum about the interactions of inks, pigments and paper coatings (which are usually a form of calcium carbonate).  While responding to another forum post on the issue of color pigments interacting with the substrate, my old fuzzy brain cells synapsed with a spark that flashed to old Michelangelo and his problems with his fresco work in the Sistine Chapel.  

I am posting this excerpt below in the hope that you will gain some smile from knowing that artists (and a master like Michelangelo) struggled with the media of their times, struggled with longevity issues, struggled with pigments and substrates, etc... Read the last few lines about fresco secco.  

Perhaps this post will encourage you to "not give up" and remember that lowly pigments and calcium can last a long time.  And just think what Michelangelo would be doing with an Inkjet!

Regards to all, 

Steadman

The following is copied from the Encarta Encyclopedia on the Web: 

Pigment is applied to the top layer of several layers of plaster for a buon fresco. The painter usually applies to the next-to-last plaster surface a sketch, or cartoon, of the painting. 
     
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The outlines of the various figures and forms of the cartoon are then reinforced with dark watercolor. Plaster is laid over the drawing in small sections, and color is applied to the wet plaster, often aided by another sketch of the color scheme. As the plaster dries, the lime in the plaster reacts chemically with the carbon dioxide in the air to form calcium carbonate; this compound forms a film over the colors, which binds them to the plaster. This makes them part of its actual surface and also gives the colors an unusual clarity. The colors of a fresco are usually thin, transparent, and light, often with a chalky look. In the Renaissance, methods were found to give the colors somewhat more opacity.

In buon fresco, the painting must be done quickly and confined to essentials. The artist must know precisely how much watercolor the plaster will absorb. Too much paint causes the surface to become "rotten." Cutting away the defective portion, laying on fresh plaster, and repainting is then necessary.

In fresco secco, the dry plaster is rubbed with pumice stone to remove the crust, then washed with a thin mixture of water and lime. The colors are applied on this surface. The effect of fresco secco is inferior to true fresco; the colors are not as clear, and the painting is less durable.



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Steadman,

Just a couple of comments. I think that the receiver coatings on the 
inkjet papers are more than just calcium carbonate (I think this is 
added in the paper itself as the pH buffer) and involve organic 
components which ultimately may be the weakest link in the chain.

Second, the goal in fresco is to wind up with the pigments sealed in 
the substrate under a coating. Which comes back to the idea of 
coating for maximum longevity.

Martin


--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., "Steadman Uhlich" 
<steadmanuhlich@k...> wrote:
> Greetings Digital Printmakers.  (cross posted)
> 
> There has been much discussion on this forum about the interactions 
of inks, pigments and paper coatings (which are usually a form of 
calcium carbonate).  While responding to another forum post on the 
issue of color pigments interacting with the substrate, my old fuzzy 
brain cells synapsed with a spark that flashed to old Michelangelo 
and his problems with his fresco work in the Sistine Chapel.  
> 
> I am posting this excerpt below in the hope that you will gain some 
smile from knowing that artists (and a master like Michelangelo) 
struggled with the media of their times, struggled with longevity 
issues, struggled with pigments and substrates, etc... Read the last 
few lines about fresco secco.  
> 
> Perhaps this post will encourage you to "not give up" and remember 
that lowly pigments and calcium can last a long time.  And just think 
what Michelangelo would be doing with an Inkjet!
> 
> Regards to all, 
> 
> Steadman
> 
> The following is copied from the Encarta Encyclopedia on the Web: 
> 
> Pigment is applied to the top layer of several layers of plaster 
for a buon fresco. The painter usually applies to the next-to-last 
plaster surface a sketch, or cartoon, of the painting. 
>      
>       Advertisement 
>      
>      
> 
>            
>        
>      
> The outlines of the various figures and forms of the cartoon are 
then reinforced with dark watercolor. Plaster is laid over the 
drawing in small sections, and color is applied to the wet plaster, 
often aided by another sketch of the color scheme. As the plaster 
dries, the lime in the plaster reacts chemically with the carbon 
dioxide in the air to form calcium carbonate; this compound forms a 
film over the colors, which binds them to the plaster. This makes 
them part of its actual surface and also gives the colors an unusual 
clarity. The colors of a fresco are usually thin, transparent, and 
light, often with a chalky look. In the Renaissance, methods were 
found to give the colors somewhat more opacity.
> 
> In buon fresco, the painting must be done quickly and confined to 
essentials. The artist must know precisely how much watercolor the 
plaster will absorb. Too much paint causes the surface to 
become "rotten." Cutting away the defective portion, laying on fresh 
plaster, and repainting is then necessary.
> 
> In fresco secco, the dry plaster is rubbed with pumice stone to 
remove the crust, then washed with a thin mixture of water and lime. 
The colors are applied on this surface. The effect of fresco secco is 
inferior to true fresco; the colors are not as clear, and the 
painting is less durable.

> 
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

In fact, one paper that Steadman loves doesn't have calcium carbonate
anywhere in sight.

Robert

On 10/14/01 8:49 PM, "Martin Wesley" <mwesley250@...> wrote:

> Steadman,
> 
> Just a couple of comments. I think that the receiver coatings on the
> inkjet papers are more than just calcium carbonate (I think this is
> added in the paper itself as the pH buffer) and involve organic
> components which ultimately may be the weakest link in the chain.
> 
> Second, the goal in fresco is to wind up with the pigments sealed in
> the substrate under a coating. Which comes back to the idea of
> coating for maximum longevity.
> 
> Martin
> 
> 
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., "Steadman Uhlich"
> <steadmanuhlich@k...> wrote:
>> Greetings Digital Printmakers.  (cross posted)
>> 
>> There has been much discussion on this forum about the interactions
> of inks, pigments and paper coatings (which are usually a form of
> calcium carbonate).  While responding to another forum post on the
> issue of color pigments interacting with the substrate, my old fuzzy
> brain cells synapsed with a spark that flashed to old Michelangelo
> and his problems with his fresco work in the Sistine Chapel.
>> 
>> I am posting this excerpt below in the hope that you will gain some
> smile from knowing that artists (and a master like Michelangelo)
> struggled with the media of their times, struggled with longevity
> issues, struggled with pigments and substrates, etc... Read the last
> few lines about fresco secco.
>> 
>> Perhaps this post will encourage you to "not give up" and remember
> that lowly pigments and calcium can last a long time.  And just think
> what Michelangelo would be doing with an Inkjet!
>> 
>> Regards to all, 
>> 
>> Steadman
>> 
>> The following is copied from the Encarta Encyclopedia on the Web:
>> 
>> Pigment is applied to the top layer of several layers of plaster
> for a buon fresco. The painter usually applies to the next-to-last
> plaster surface a sketch, or cartoon, of the painting.
>>      
>>       Advertisement
>>      
>>      
>> 
>>            
>>        
>>      
>> The outlines of the various figures and forms of the cartoon are
> then reinforced with dark watercolor. Plaster is laid over the
> drawing in small sections, and color is applied to the wet plaster,
> often aided by another sketch of the color scheme. As the plaster
> dries, the lime in the plaster reacts chemically with the carbon
> dioxide in the air to form calcium carbonate; this compound forms a
> film over the colors, which binds them to the plaster. This makes
> them part of its actual surface and also gives the colors an unusual
> clarity. The colors of a fresco are usually thin, transparent, and
> light, often with a chalky look. In the Renaissance, methods were
> found to give the colors somewhat more opacity.
>> 
>> In buon fresco, the painting must be done quickly and confined to
> essentials. The artist must know precisely how much watercolor the
> plaster will absorb. Too much paint causes the surface to
> become "rotten." Cutting away the defective portion, laying on fresh
> plaster, and repainting is then necessary.
>> 
>> In fresco secco, the dry plaster is rubbed with pumice stone to
> remove the crust, then washed with a thin mixture of water and lime.
> The colors are applied on this surface. The effect of fresco secco is
> inferior to true fresco; the colors are not as clear, and the
> painting is less durable.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> 
> 
> 
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and other
> resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
> 
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> 
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> - Include your full name with your message.
> - Include the address of your website, if you have one.
> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep
> them short.
> - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject header.
> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or "flames."
> - Complete your Yahoo profile.
> - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the various
> resources on the homepage.
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> 
> 

----------------------
Robert Morrison
rmorrison@...

310-397-2704

4131 Bledsoe Ave.
Los Angeles, CA 90066

Martin, 

Empiricism....

Take your tongue and touch the surface of Orwell.  Now take your tongue and touch the surface of a Tums or Rolaid tablet.  That's the true test of a good paper.  (wink)

I can't wait to visit my friends at the paper plant and talk coatings...if they only knew how much cybertalk goes on and how much folks are concerned. 

As for fresco painting... the similarities I see are connections to the substrate/pigment issue.  
I disagree with your assertion that it comes back to a coating issue (taken to mean a spray or painted on clear coat).  The fresco does not need to have a clear coat because the pigment bonds with the substrate in a permanent way.  Like putting a pigment into a fresh sidewalk.  

I paint (with pigments and a brush) on kaolin (calcium carbonate) substrates that have been painted on hardboard.  The effect is about the same as the coated art papers I use.  

Don't sweat the opinions...

Steadman 

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Martin Wesley 
  To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Sunday, October 14, 2001 10:49 PM
  Subject: [Digital BW] Re: Age Old Problem: Inks, Pigments, and Coatings


  Steadman,

  Just a couple of comments. I think that the receiver coatings on the 
  inkjet papers are more than just calcium carbonate (I think this is 
  added in the paper itself as the pH buffer) and involve organic 
  components which ultimately may be the weakest link in the chain.

  Second, the goal in fresco is to wind up with the pigments sealed in 
  the substrate under a coating. Which comes back to the idea of 
  coating for maximum longevity.

  Martin


  --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., "Steadman Uhlich" 
  <steadmanuhlich@k...> wrote:
  > Greetings Digital Printmakers.  (cross posted)
  > 
  > There has been much discussion on this forum about the interactions 
  of inks, pigments and paper coatings (which are usually a form of 
  calcium carbonate).  While responding to another forum post on the 
  issue of color pigments interacting with the substrate, my old fuzzy 
  brain cells synapsed with a spark that flashed to old Michelangelo 
  and his problems with his fresco work in the Sistine Chapel.  
  > 
  > I am posting this excerpt below in the hope that you will gain some 
  smile from knowing that artists (and a master like Michelangelo) 
  struggled with the media of their times, struggled with longevity 
  issues, struggled with pigments and substrates, etc... Read the last 
  few lines about fresco secco.  
  > 
  > Perhaps this post will encourage you to "not give up" and remember 
  that lowly pigments and calcium can last a long time.  And just think 
  what Michelangelo would be doing with an Inkjet!
  > 
  > Regards to all, 
  > 
  > Steadman
  > 
  > The following is copied from the Encarta Encyclopedia on the Web: 
  > 
  > Pigment is applied to the top layer of several layers of plaster 
  for a buon fresco. The painter usually applies to the next-to-last 
  plaster surface a sketch, or cartoon, of the painting. 
  >      
  >       Advertisement 
  >      
  >      
  > 
  >            
  >        
  >      
  > The outlines of the various figures and forms of the cartoon are 
  then reinforced with dark watercolor. Plaster is laid over the 
  drawing in small sections, and color is applied to the wet plaster, 
  often aided by another sketch of the color scheme. As the plaster 
  dries, the lime in the plaster reacts chemically with the carbon 
  dioxide in the air to form calcium carbonate; this compound forms a 
  film over the colors, which binds them to the plaster. This makes 
  them part of its actual surface and also gives the colors an unusual 
  clarity. The colors of a fresco are usually thin, transparent, and 
  light, often with a chalky look. In the Renaissance, methods were 
  found to give the colors somewhat more opacity.
  > 
  > In buon fresco, the painting must be done quickly and confined to 
  essentials. The artist must know precisely how much watercolor the 
  plaster will absorb. Too much paint causes the surface to 
  become "rotten." Cutting away the defective portion, laying on fresh 
  plaster, and repainting is then necessary.
  > 
  > In fresco secco, the dry plaster is rubbed with pumice stone to 
  remove the crust, then washed with a thin mixture of water and lime. 
  The colors are applied on this surface. The effect of fresco secco is 
  inferior to true fresco; the colors are not as clear, and the 
  painting is less durable.
  > 
  > 
  > 
  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


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  - Include the address of your website, if you have one.
  - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep them short.
  - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject header.
  - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or "flames."
  - Complete your Yahoo profile.
  - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the various resources on the homepage. 




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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., "Steadman Uhlich" 
<steadmanuhlich@k...> wrote:
> Martin, 
> 
> Empiricism....
> 
> Take your tongue and touch the surface of Orwell.  Now take your 
tongue and touch the surface of a Tums or Rolaid tablet.  That's the 
true test of a good paper.  (wink)

Steadman,

Right. Touch your tongue to a silver print and give it a sec. ;-)

> 
> I can't wait to visit my friends at the paper plant and talk 
coatings...if they only knew how much cybertalk goes on and how much 
folks are concerned. 
> 
> As for fresco painting... the similarities I see are connections to 
the substrate/pigment issue.  
> I disagree with your assertion that it comes back to a coating 
issue (taken to mean a spray or painted on clear coat).  The fresco 
does not need to have a clear coat because the pigment bonds with the 
substrate in a permanent way.  Like putting a pigment into a fresh 
sidewalk.  
> 
> I paint (with pigments and a brush) on kaolin (calcium carbonate) 
substrates that have been painted on hardboard.  The effect is about 
the same as the coated art papers I use.  
> 
> Don't sweat the opinions...
> 
> Steadman 
> 
(snip)