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Thread

Are Quadtone prints "Giclee" (NAMING)

2001-10-15 by Steadman Uhlich

Nij, Splendid posting!

I wish I had a Turbo Paint Jet 7000 installed with PiezoBW Carbon Total Pigment Inkset.  

Naming question is a good one.  Too bad the Epson company didn't start naming their printers like they do their cars...now that would be interesting...

"I have a Black Swan Inkdrip printer....what do you have?"

"A Squid Ink Model 2."

"Me? A Fugu Puffer Printer!!" 

Smiles everyone..

Steadman

==============

Show quoted textHide quoted text

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Nij 
  To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Sunday, October 14, 2001 8:40 PM
  Subject: RE: [Digital BW] Re: Are Quadtone prints "Giclee" (NAMING)

  I agree entirely! And apart from that... NO-ONE would be using this whole
  technology if someone had called it an 'inkdrip printer'! Not even 'turbo
  inkdrip' would have worked...

  Similarly, maybe LASER printers would not have gone so far had they been
  called 'Static printers'?

  But what if inkjet printers had instead been called 'paintjet' or 'artjet'
  or 'piezojet' (i.e. dereferencing the technology or the ink, and instead
  focussing on the result... or the technology). Would we be dealing with
  different customer reactions now?

  How much does a name influence customers???

  Nij

  > -----Original Message-----
  > From: SKID Photography [mailto:skid@...]
  >
  > But inkjets' inks are under applied with pressure (hence the term
  > inkJET) albeit, tiny pressure, but hey, it's
  > a tiny ink droplet (not even considered a 'drop').  The
  > electrical charge to the printhead causes to the ink
  > to discharge from the nozzle.  That is not the same as a 'drip'.

  Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [Digital BW] Are Quadtone prints "Giclee" (NAMING)

2001-10-15 by Todd Flashner

For better or for worse, we printers are the only ones who care about this
stuff. Do buyers care what kind of enlarger you use to make silver prints?
Only if they're printers too.

In the end, your prints will still be inkjets (a rose by any other name...),
and until we don't blush when we hear an admirer whisper "they're not
silver, they're just inkjets", overly clever names will only make us feel
sluts, and ashamed. Our problem isn't only how the public feels about our
process, it's also how we feel about it.

First let's just get some shows, then figure out how to bamboozle the masses
with great copy writing. If we put half the time we spend naming our prints
into finding dealers who are willing to represent the work, we'd be calling
our prints "money"! ;-)

Todd

Show quoted textHide quoted text

> Nij, Splendid posting!
> 
> I wish I had a Turbo Paint Jet 7000 installed with PiezoBW Carbon Total
> Pigment Inkset.  
> 
> Naming question is a good one.  Too bad the Epson company didn't start naming
> their printers like they do their cars...now that would be interesting...
> 
> "I have a Black Swan Inkdrip printer....what do you have?"
> 
> "A Squid Ink Model 2."
> 
> "Me? A Fugu Puffer Printer!!"
> 
> Smiles everyone..
> 
> Steadman

> I agree entirely! And apart from that... NO-ONE would be using this whole
> technology if someone had called it an 'inkdrip printer'! Not even 'turbo
> inkdrip' would have worked...
> 
> Similarly, maybe LASER printers would not have gone so far had they been
> called 'Static printers'?
> 
> But what if inkjet printers had instead been called 'paintjet' or 'artjet'
> or 'piezojet' (i.e. dereferencing the technology or the ink, and instead
> focussing on the result... or the technology). Would we be dealing with
> different customer reactions now?
> 
> How much does a name influence customers???
> 
> Nij
> 
> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: SKID Photography [mailto:skid@...]
>> 
>> But inkjets' inks are under applied with pressure (hence the term
>> inkJET) albeit, tiny pressure, but hey, it's
>> a tiny ink droplet (not even considered a 'drop').  The
>> electrical charge to the printhead causes to the ink
>> to discharge from the nozzle.  That is not the same as a 'drip'.

Re: [Digital BW] Are Quadtone prints "Giclee" (NAMING)

2001-10-15 by Steadman Uhlich

Todd, 

Good posting! 

Reminds me though....what do people call art images made with Pastels?  

Some call them "pastel drawing" while others say "pastel painting."  

Imagine...painting with a piece of chalk.  

By the way, I think of the Inkjet prints we make as "paintings" rather than photographs. 

Steadman

Show quoted textHide quoted text

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Todd Flashner 
  To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Sunday, October 14, 2001 9:42 PM
  Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Are Quadtone prints "Giclee" (NAMING)


  For better or for worse, we printers are the only ones who care about this
  stuff. Do buyers care what kind of enlarger you use to make silver prints?
  Only if they're printers too.

  In the end, your prints will still be inkjets (a rose by any other name...),
  and until we don't blush when we hear an admirer whisper "they're not
  silver, they're just inkjets", overly clever names will only make us feel
  sluts, and ashamed. Our problem isn't only how the public feels about our
  process, it's also how we feel about it.

  First let's just get some shows, then figure out how to bamboozle the masses
  with great copy writing. If we put half the time we spend naming our prints
  into finding dealers who are willing to represent the work, we'd be calling
  our prints "money"! ;-)

  Todd

  > Nij, Splendid posting!
  > 
  > I wish I had a Turbo Paint Jet 7000 installed with PiezoBW Carbon Total
  > Pigment Inkset.  
  > 
  > Naming question is a good one.  Too bad the Epson company didn't start naming
  > their printers like they do their cars...now that would be interesting...
  > 
  > "I have a Black Swan Inkdrip printer....what do you have?"
  > 
  > "A Squid Ink Model 2."
  > 
  > "Me? A Fugu Puffer Printer!!"
  > 
  > Smiles everyone..
  > 
  > Steadman

  > I agree entirely! And apart from that... NO-ONE would be using this whole
  > technology if someone had called it an 'inkdrip printer'! Not even 'turbo
  > inkdrip' would have worked...
  > 
  > Similarly, maybe LASER printers would not have gone so far had they been
  > called 'Static printers'?
  > 
  > But what if inkjet printers had instead been called 'paintjet' or 'artjet'
  > or 'piezojet' (i.e. dereferencing the technology or the ink, and instead
  > focussing on the result... or the technology). Would we be dealing with
  > different customer reactions now?
  > 
  > How much does a name influence customers???
  > 
  > Nij
  > 
  > 
  >> -----Original Message-----
  >> From: SKID Photography [mailto:skid@...]
  >> 
  >> But inkjets' inks are under applied with pressure (hence the term
  >> inkJET) albeit, tiny pressure, but hey, it's
  >> a tiny ink droplet (not even considered a 'drop').  The
  >> electrical charge to the printhead causes to the ink
  >> to discharge from the nozzle.  That is not the same as a 'drip'.


  Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:

  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint

  Please follow these basic guidelines:
  - Include your full name with your message.
  - Include the address of your website, if you have one.
  - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep them short.
  - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject header.
  - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or "flames."
  - Complete your Yahoo profile.
  - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the various resources on the homepage. 




  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. 



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [Digital BW] Are Quadtone prints "Giclee" (NAMING)

2001-10-15 by Tom Keesling

Steadman,
--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., "Steadman Uhlich" 
<steadmanuhlich@k...> wrote:
> 
> By the way, I think of the Inkjet prints we make as "paintings" 
rather than photographs. 
> 
> Steadman

I like the way you think. I've been using "Photographic Art Print" as 
the moniker for my photo-based prints that I sell. It's not very 
descriptive in terms of the tools being used, but then most 
prospective customers don't seem to mind. If the customer wants more 
info, it's readily available.

In my limited experience, most customers don't care which technology 
is used to produce a print today any more than they care about the 
brands of paints and types brushes used to produce oil and watercolor 
paintings, either today or in years past. Aside from curators, 
collectors, and ourselves, how many people really care which tools we 
employ to produce our prints?

Tom Keesling
Intelligent Design, Inc.

Re: [Digital BW] Are Quadtone prints "Giclee" (NAMING)

2001-10-15 by JackG

Hi Tom,
Well said, I have been using two items, Renaissance Art and Gicclee' Art
Prints.  After reading what Gicclee really means in French slang, I may drop
that one.

John in Okc

P.S. This is what I give the client:
                                         Renaissance Art

                                                    Session Fees

 Studio Location Custom  to  Deluxe

(Inside or Outside) $100.00 to $300.00

                                                Location Portraits

 Inside using portrait lights. $150.00 to $350.00
 Outside using natural light. $100.00 to $300.00


                                                  Portrait Deposits

Following the photgraphy session, a $500.00 deposit is requested.  A deposit
of
50% of the total invoiced amount is requested when the prints leave the
studio.
 Original 5x5 colour prints may be purchased for $25.00 each.

 Giccle\ufffd Art Prints

                                                     Watercolour
Art Work

   32 x 42                                             $6,800
By Estimate

 26 x 32                                              $2850

  22 x 32                                              $1875

  22 x 26                                               $1460

 18 x 22                                               $1240

 13 x 16                                               $1020

 10 x 12                                                 $980


Renaissance fine art prints come with an additional white border around the
image area. This allows for the watercolour paper to be hand-torn along the
paper edge to achieve a deckled edge effect. They are painted on acid-free
archival paper and center mounted on a larger complimentary-coloured salon
mount board. Then another complimentary-coloured salon mat is cut to frame
the mounting. This entire composite mount is then custom wood framed and put
under glass.

Show quoted textHide quoted text

----- Original Message -----
<snip>
:
: I like the way you think. I've been using "Photographic Art Print" as
: the moniker for my photo-based prints that I sell. It's not very
: descriptive in terms of the tools being used, but then most
: prospective customers don't seem to mind. If the customer wants more
: info, it's readily available.
:
: In my limited experience, most customers don't care which technology
: is used to produce a print today any more than they care about the
: brands of paints and types brushes used to produce oil and watercolor
: paintings, either today or in years past. Aside from curators,
: collectors, and ourselves, how many people really care which tools we
: employ to produce our prints?
:
: Tom Keesling
: Intelligent Design, Inc.

Re: [Digital BW] Are Quadtone prints "Giclee" (NAMING)

2001-10-15 by Tom Keesling

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., "JackG" <jackg@p...> wrote:
> Hi Tom,
> Well said, I have been using two items, Renaissance Art and 
Gicclee' Art
> Prints.  After reading what Gicclee really means in French slang, I 
may drop
> that one.

Jack,

I couldn't agree more regarding the use of "Giclee." Before I even 
learned of the unfortunate slang use of the term, I had decided 
against using it because it sounded so pretentious. After following 
several discussions on this topic on the Epson Inkjet list and the 
DigitalFineArt List, I settled on my "Photographic Art Print." It's 
descriptive enough and doesn't impose on the potential customer the 
nuts and bolts of producing the print. 

How did you come up with "Renaissance Art?"

Tom

Re: [Digital BW] Are Quadtone prints "Giclee" (NAMING)

2001-10-15 by JackG

Tom,

I think your term, "Photographic Art Print.", seems more appropriate. It has
been so long I can't remember where
Renaissance Art  came from.  I do remember the Gicclee' name came from some
pro photo articles in different mags.
which is probably where the other came from.
Maybe I should explain something else. I have two large framed Iris prints
on watercolor paper in my studio.
One was made in Washington State and the other by an artist/photographer in
Calif. I have more money in one of these prints than any other print I have
had made. Thousands! While the price list I sent you is valid, I have never
sold an Iris print because I was afraid of spending a bunch of money on
something that I was not sure how long it would last. People tell me that
they love the medium, they are beautiful prints, but I tell them that it is
not for sale now. I could just see paying  hundreds of dollars for something
that a client might not like and I had to eat it, or coming back in a few
years with problems that I again had to pay hundreds of dollars to solve.
With the pro lab that I use, if there is a problem or even if  I just think
there is a problem, they take care of it at no charge.

Regards,

John in Okc

Show quoted textHide quoted text

----- Original Message -----
From: "Tom Keesling" <tom.keesling@...>
To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, October 15, 2001 4:44 PM
Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Are Quadtone prints "Giclee" (NAMING)

: --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., "JackG" <jackg@p...> wrote:
: > Hi Tom,
: > Well said, I have been using two items, Renaissance Art and
: Gicclee' Art
: > Prints.  After reading what Gicclee really means in French slang, I
: may drop
: > that one.
:
: Jack,
:
: I couldn't agree more regarding the use of "Giclee." Before I even
: learned of the unfortunate slang use of the term, I had decided
: against using it because it sounded so pretentious. After following
: several discussions on this topic on the Epson Inkjet list and the
: DigitalFineArt List, I settled on my "Photographic Art Print." It's
: descriptive enough and doesn't impose on the potential customer the
: nuts and bolts of producing the print.
:
: How did you come up with "Renaissance Art?"
:
: Tom
:
:
:
: Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and
other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
:
: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
:
: Please follow these basic guidelines:
: - Include your full name with your message.
: - Include the address of your website, if you have one.
: - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep
them short.
: - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject header.
: - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or "flames."
: - Complete your Yahoo profile.
: - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the various
resources on the homepage.
:
:
:
:
: Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
:
:

Re: [Digital BW] Are Quadtone prints "Giclee" (NAMING)

2001-10-15 by JackG

Hi Harvey,

I guess it seems to be a hangover from the old portrait industry. On my
color price list I use custom color and masterpiece. Both are enlarger
prints, the main difference is retouching. I am not hung up on names, I do
think of keeping it honest and simple is the best way.

Fido and Fido Masterpiece  might work if I was selling dog food, with and
without meat in it.<G>
Sebastian, Sebastian Ultra hold, and Sebastian Max hold for hair spray.

Regards,

John in Okc

Show quoted textHide quoted text

----- Original Message -----
From: "SKID Photography" <skid@...>
To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, October 15, 2001 6:07 PM
Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Are Quadtone prints "Giclee" (NAMING)

: Tom Keesling wrote:
:
: > --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., "JackG" <jackg@p...> wrote:
: > > Hi Tom,
: > > Well said, I have been using two items, Renaissance Art and
: > Gicclee' Art
: > > Prints.  After reading what Gicclee really means in French slang, I
: > may drop
: > > that one.
: >
: > Jack,
: >
: > I couldn't agree more regarding the use of "Giclee." Before I even
: > learned of the unfortunate slang use of the term, I had decided
: > against using it because it sounded so pretentious. After following
: > several discussions on this topic on the Epson Inkjet list and the
: > DigitalFineArt List, I settled on my "Photographic Art Print." It's
: > descriptive enough and doesn't impose on the potential customer the
: > nuts and bolts of producing the print.
: >
: > How did you come up with "Renaissance Art?"
: >
: > Tom
:
: Why not call them 'Fido', or 'Sebastian'?  Why call them anything?  What
I'm saying is that if you are not
: giving information to the viewer, why bother labeling?
:
: Harvey Ferdschneider
: partner, SKID Photography, NYC
:
:
:
:
: [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
:
:
:
: Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and
other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
:
: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
:
: Please follow these basic guidelines:
: - Include your full name with your message.
: - Include the address of your website, if you have one.
: - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep
them short.
: - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject header.
: - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or "flames."
: - Complete your Yahoo profile.
: - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the various
resources on the homepage.
:
:
:
:
: Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
:
:

Re: [Digital BW] Are Quadtone prints "Giclee" (NAMING)

2001-10-15 by SKID Photography

Tom Keesling wrote:

> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., "JackG" <jackg@p...> wrote:
> > Hi Tom,
> > Well said, I have been using two items, Renaissance Art and
> Gicclee' Art
> > Prints.  After reading what Gicclee really means in French slang, I
> may drop
> > that one.
>
> Jack,
>
> I couldn't agree more regarding the use of "Giclee." Before I even
> learned of the unfortunate slang use of the term, I had decided
> against using it because it sounded so pretentious. After following
> several discussions on this topic on the Epson Inkjet list and the
> DigitalFineArt List, I settled on my "Photographic Art Print." It's
> descriptive enough and doesn't impose on the potential customer the
> nuts and bolts of producing the print.
>
> How did you come up with "Renaissance Art?"
>
> Tom

Why not call them 'Fido', or 'Sebastian'?  Why call them anything?  What I'm saying is that if you are not
giving information to the viewer, why bother labeling?

Harvey Ferdschneider
partner, SKID Photography, NYC




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [Digital BW] Are Quadtone prints "Giclee" (NAMING)

2001-10-15 by SKID Photography

Sorry, I thought this was about show labels...duh!  Nothing wrong with 'branding' process lines.

Harvey Ferdschneider
partner, SKID Photography, NYC


JackG wrote:

> Hi Harvey,
>
> I guess it seems to be a hangover from the old portrait industry. On my
> color price list I use custom color and masterpiece. Both are enlarger
> prints, the main difference is retouching. I am not hung up on names, I do
> think of keeping it honest and simple is the best way.
>
> Fido and Fido Masterpiece  might work if I was selling dog food, with and
> without meat in it.<G>
> Sebastian, Sebastian Ultra hold, and Sebastian Max hold for hair spray.
>
> Regards,
>
> John in Okc
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "SKID Photography" <skid@...>
> To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Monday, October 15, 2001 6:07 PM
> Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Are Quadtone prints "Giclee" (NAMING)
>
>
> : Tom Keesling wrote:
> :
> : > --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., "JackG" <jackg@p...> wrote:
> : > > Hi Tom,
> : > > Well said, I have been using two items, Renaissance Art and
> : > Gicclee' Art
> : > > Prints.  After reading what Gicclee really means in French slang, I
> : > may drop
> : > > that one.
> : >
> : > Jack,
> : >
> : > I couldn't agree more regarding the use of "Giclee." Before I even
> : > learned of the unfortunate slang use of the term, I had decided
> : > against using it because it sounded so pretentious. After following
> : > several discussions on this topic on the Epson Inkjet list and the
> : > DigitalFineArt List, I settled on my "Photographic Art Print." It's
> : > descriptive enough and doesn't impose on the potential customer the
> : > nuts and bolts of producing the print.
> : >
> : > How did you come up with "Renaissance Art?"
> : >
> : > Tom
> :
> : Why not call them 'Fido', or 'Sebastian'?  Why call them anything?  What
> I'm saying is that if you are not
> : giving information to the viewer, why bother labeling?
> :
> : Harvey Ferdschneider
> : partner, SKID Photography, NYC





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [Digital BW] Are Quadtone prints "Giclee" (NAMING)

2001-10-15 by JackG

RE: Giclee name,

Just called a friend who taught French, daughter is married to a French man,
just dumped all my price lists etc that used the word Gicclee.

Think I will call them Chi Chi specials.<G>

John in okc

Digital BW, The Print

Are Quadtone prints "Giclee" (NAMING)

Are Quadtone prints "Giclee" (NAMING)

Re: [Digital BW] Are Quadtone prints "Giclee" (NAMING)

Re: [Digital BW] Are Quadtone prints "Giclee" (NAMING)

Re: [Digital BW] Are Quadtone prints "Giclee" (NAMING)

Re: [Digital BW] Are Quadtone prints "Giclee" (NAMING)

Re: [Digital BW] Are Quadtone prints "Giclee" (NAMING)

Re: [Digital BW] Are Quadtone prints "Giclee" (NAMING)

Re: [Digital BW] Are Quadtone prints "Giclee" (NAMING)

Re: [Digital BW] Are Quadtone prints "Giclee" (NAMING)

Re: [Digital BW] Are Quadtone prints "Giclee" (NAMING)

Re: [Digital BW] Are Quadtone prints "Giclee" (NAMING)

Move to quarantaine