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Lyson Print Guard....did I miss something?

Lyson Print Guard....did I miss something?

2004-02-29 by dave_in_gva2001

I have Hydrocote and a Meyer rod and have seen the effect this has on 
my UT-1 prints on PhotoRag. An obvious difference is the increase in 
contrast and (even though I can't measure it via densitometer) the 
increase in Dmax.

More recently I read with interest the threads on spray coatings and 
ended up buying a can of Lyson Print Guard, which is supposed to be 
identical to Clearshield. I expected this to have a similar effect in 
terms of increasing contrast and Dmax, but was surprised to see that 
3 coats sprayed onto a print seems to yield no visible difference at 
all with an unsprayed print.

Did I miss something? Is the rationale for using the spray coatings 
UV protection and print longevity only, or is it also for increasing 
Dmax?

Best,

Dave

RE: [Digital BW] Lyson Print Guard....did I miss something?

2004-02-29 by Paul Roark

Dave,

I use the aerosol sprays to seal and reduce reflective artifacts on glossy
papers.  On matte papers I use the sprays when I want to give some physical
protection to the prints, but with no visible changes.  The sprays will not
raise the dmax on matte paper.

The Hydrocote is the best way I found to raise the dmax on matte papers and
seal them against water.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com 

For UT2 information, curves, and settings see:
http://home1.gte.net/res09aij/

_____________________________
Show quoted textHide quoted text
-----Original Message-----
From: dave_in_gva2001 [mailto:meddings@...] 
Sent: Sunday, February 29, 2004 6:25 AM
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Digital BW] Lyson Print Guard....did I miss something?

I have Hydrocote and a Meyer rod and have seen the effect this has on 
my UT-1 prints on PhotoRag. An obvious difference is the increase in 
contrast and (even though I can't measure it via densitometer) the 
increase in Dmax.

More recently I read with interest the threads on spray coatings and 
ended up buying a can of Lyson Print Guard, which is supposed to be 
identical to Clearshield. I expected this to have a similar effect in 
terms of increasing contrast and Dmax, but was surprised to see that 
3 coats sprayed onto a print seems to yield no visible difference at 
all with an unsprayed print.

Did I miss something? Is the rationale for using the spray coatings 
UV protection and print longevity only, or is it also for increasing 
Dmax?

Best,

Dave



Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other resources as
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BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT
YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE "OWNER" AND
"MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE LIABLE TO YOU
FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY
DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS,
GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE  "OWNER" AND
"MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE
POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY
TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR
ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY
THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER
MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP.
 
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Re: Lyson Print Guard > Hydrocote and Liquitex

2004-02-29 by Tom Andrews

Hi Paul,

What do you like about Hydrocote compared with Liquitex on matte papers?  
Thanks,

Tom Andrews
http://www.wildlandart.com
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> The Hydrocote is the best way I found to raise the dmax on matte papers and
> seal them against water.
> 
> Paul
> www.PaulRoark.com

Re: [Digital BW] Lyson Print Guard....did I miss something?

2004-02-29 by dave_in_gva2001

Thanks Paul, that's very clear. Good to know I wasn't seeing 
things....so long from Geneva.

Dave

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Roark" 
<paul.roark@v...> wrote:
> Dave,
> 
> I use the aerosol sprays to seal and reduce reflective artifacts on 
glossy
> papers.  On matte papers I use the sprays when I want to give some 
physical
> protection to the prints, but with no visible changes.  The sprays 
will not
> raise the dmax on matte paper.
> 
> The Hydrocote is the best way I found to raise the dmax on matte 
papers and
> seal them against water.
> 
> Paul
> www.PaulRoark.com 
> 
> For UT2 information, curves, and settings see:
> http://home1.gte.net/res09aij/
> 
> _____________________________
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: dave_in_gva2001 [mailto:meddings@f...] 
> Sent: Sunday, February 29, 2004 6:25 AM
> To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Digital BW] Lyson Print Guard....did I miss something?
> 
> I have Hydrocote and a Meyer rod and have seen the effect this has 
on 
> my UT-1 prints on PhotoRag. An obvious difference is the increase 
in 
> contrast and (even though I can't measure it via densitometer) the 
> increase in Dmax.
> 
> More recently I read with interest the threads on spray coatings 
and 
> ended up buying a can of Lyson Print Guard, which is supposed to be 
> identical to Clearshield. I expected this to have a similar effect 
in 
> terms of increasing contrast and Dmax, but was surprised to see 
that 
> 3 coats sprayed onto a print seems to yield no visible difference 
at 
> all with an unsprayed print.
> 
> Did I miss something? Is the rationale for using the spray coatings 
> UV protection and print longevity only, or is it also for 
increasing 
> Dmax?
> 
> Best,
> 
> Dave
> 
> 
> 
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other 
resources as
> they are often being updated.
> 
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> 
> If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you 
wish to
> unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting 
this same
> page.
> 
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages 
to keep
> them short.
> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or 
flames.
> Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from the
> membership without notice.
> - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital 
B&W
> printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be 
removed from
> the membership.
> - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and
> guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group 
Owner and
> Moderators. See "Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines" in the Files 
section:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/
> 
> BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE 
PRINT
> YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE "OWNER" AND
> "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE 
LIABLE TO YOU
> FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR 
EXEMPLARY
> DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS,
> GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF 
THE  "OWNER" AND
> "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED 
OF THE
> POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE 
INABILITY
> TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED 
ACCESS TO OR
> ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR 
CONDUCT OF ANY
> THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY 
OTHER
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP.
>  
> Yahoo! Groups Links

RE: [Digital BW] Re: Lyson Print Guard > Hydrocote and Liquitex

2004-02-29 by Paul Roark

Tom,

>What do you like about Hydrocote compared with Liquitex on matte papers?  

At least in theory I think the cross-linking of the polyurethane makes for a
tougher coating.  Polyurethane in industry appears to be considered about
the toughest coating there is.  This is usually the solvent-based,
2-componenet ones, but to a lesser extent I think the same reasons apply to
the water-borne polyurethane.

In practice, I think the Hydrocote, perhaps due to this cross-linking, ends
up less tacky than the water-borne acrylics.  It is still, not perfect in
this respect, however.  This is one of the problems that caused me to back
away from the water-based coating materials.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com 

For UT2 information, curves, and settings see:
http://home1.gte.net/res09aij/
___________________________


> The Hydrocote is the best way I found to raise the dmax on matte papers
and
> seal them against water.
> 
> Paul
> www.PaulRoark.com 





Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other resources as
they are often being updated.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint

If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to
unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same
page.

Please follow these basic guidelines:
- As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep
them short.
- Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames.
Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from the
membership without notice.
- Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital B&W
printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be removed from
the membership.
- By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and
guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group Owner and
Moderators. See "Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines" in the Files section:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/

BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT
YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE "OWNER" AND
"MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE LIABLE TO YOU
FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY
DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS,
GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE  "OWNER" AND
"MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE
POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY
TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR
ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY
THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER
MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP.
 
Yahoo! Groups Links

[Digital BW] Re: Lyson Print Guard > Hydrocote and Liquitex

2004-02-29 by Tom Andrews

Hi Paul,

Other than the toughness and tackiness differences, did you (or anyone else) find 
much difference in the appearance of the coating (surface reflection, thickness, 
surface texture, overall "plastic" look, etc) and the appearance in the print through 
the coating (Dmax, etc) between Hydrocote and Liquitex coatings?  Thanks,

Tom Andrews
http://www.wildlandart.com
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> >What do you like about Hydrocote compared with Liquitex on matte papers?  
> 
> At least in theory I think the cross-linking of the polyurethane makes for a
> tougher coating.  Polyurethane in industry appears to be considered about
> the toughest coating there is.  This is usually the solvent-based,
> 2-componenet ones, but to a lesser extent I think the same reasons apply to
> the water-borne polyurethane.
> 
> In practice, I think the Hydrocote, perhaps due to this cross-linking, ends
> up less tacky than the water-borne acrylics.  It is still, not perfect in
> this respect, however.  This is one of the problems that caused me to back
> away from the water-based coating materials.
> 
> Paul
> www.PaulRoark.com 
> 
> For UT2 information, curves, and settings see:
> http://home1.gte.net/res09aij/

RE: [Digital BW] Re: Lyson Print Guard > Hydrocote and Liquitex

2004-03-01 by Paul Roark

Tom,

>Other than the toughness and tackiness differences, 
>did you (or anyone else) find 
>much difference in the appearance of the coating 
>(surface reflection, thickness, 
>surface texture, overall "plastic" look, etc) and the 
>appearance in the print through 
>the coating (Dmax, etc) between Hydrocote and Liquitex coatings?  

No, I think they look alike.  I used Liquitex first, in fact.  The dilution
of the solutions and guage of the wire rod is the variable that controls
most of look on print.  I do not recommend the UV versions for indoor use.
I think they yellow the print too much.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com 

__________________________




> >What do you like about Hydrocote compared with Liquitex on matte papers?

> 
> At least in theory I think the cross-linking of the polyurethane makes for
a
> tougher coating.  Polyurethane in industry appears to be considered about
> the toughest coating there is.  This is usually the solvent-based,
> 2-componenet ones, but to a lesser extent I think the same reasons apply
to
> the water-borne polyurethane.
> 
> In practice, I think the Hydrocote, perhaps due to this cross-linking,
ends
> up less tacky than the water-borne acrylics.  It is still, not perfect in
> this respect, however.  This is one of the problems that caused me to back
> away from the water-based coating materials.
> 
> Paul
> www.PaulRoark.com 
> 
> For UT2 information, curves, and settings see:
> http://home1.gte.net/res09aij/




Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other resources as
they are often being updated.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint

If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to
unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same
page.

Please follow these basic guidelines:
- As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep
them short.
- Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames.
Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from the
membership without notice.
- Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital B&W
printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be removed from
the membership.
- By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and
guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group Owner and
Moderators. See "Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines" in the Files section:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/

BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT
YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE "OWNER" AND
"MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE LIABLE TO YOU
FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY
DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS,
GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE  "OWNER" AND
"MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE
POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY
TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR
ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY
THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER
MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP.
 
Yahoo! Groups Links

Re: [Digital BW] Re: Lyson Print Guard > Hydrocote and Liquitex

2004-03-01 by xspamxken.schuster

Paul - How do you apply the Liquitex (Meyer rod, power spray, brush-on, etc.)?

Ken
________________________________________________________________

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RE: [Digital BW] Re: Lyson Print Guard > Hydrocote and Liquitex

2004-03-01 by Paul Roark

Ken,

I used the Meyer rod for applying Liquitex and Hydrocote.  For 8x10 it
worded fine.  I never did get the system scaled up to 16x20, however.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com 

For UT2 information, curves, and settings see:
http://home1.gte.net/res09aij/
_______________________________
Show quoted textHide quoted text
-----Original Message-----
From: xspamxken.schuster [mailto:xspamxken.schuster@...] 
Sent: Monday, March 01, 2004 6:38 AM
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Re: Lyson Print Guard > Hydrocote and Liquitex

Paul - How do you apply the Liquitex (Meyer rod, power spray, brush-on,
etc.)?

Ken
________________________________________________________________

[Digital BW] Re: Lyson Print Guard > Hydrocote and Liquitex

2004-03-01 by Tom Andrews

Hi Paul,

I have had a few prints sprayed with Liquitex by Infinite-editions.com in the Denver 
area.  They use a professional spray gun and spray booth.  Mixed 2/3 gloss and 1/3 
matte it cuts the ultrashininess of the 100% gloss and doesn't have the dulling effect 
of pure matte.  Other mixtures and dilutions might be even better?  I don't know 
how this would compare to the Meyer rod application in print appearance?  I didn't 
know that a UV and a non-UV version was available, nor that the UV version yellows 
the appearance of the print.  I didn't notice this on my prints, which may not be 
sprayed with the UV coating. How noticeable is this yellowing?   
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> I used the Meyer rod for applying Liquitex and Hydrocote.  For 8x10 it
> worded fine.  I never did get the system scaled up to 16x20, however.
> 
> Paul
> www.PaulRoark.com 
> 

> Paul - How do you apply the Liquitex (Meyer rod, power spray, brush-on,
> etc.)?
> 
> Ken

RE: [Digital BW] Re: Lyson Print Guard > Hydrocote and Liquitex

2004-03-01 by Paul Roark

Tom, 

>I have had a few prints sprayed with Liquitex by Infinite-editions.com 
>in the Denver area.  They use a professional spray gun and spray booth. 

From what I could tell, a good spray gun and booth is the way to go for
large prints.

 >Mixed 2/3 gloss and 1/3 matte it cuts the ultrashininess of the 100% 
>gloss and doesn't have the dulling effect of pure matte.
>Other mixtures and dilutions might be even better? 

The amount of gloss seems to be subjective.  With the Meyer rod the dilution
can also control the glossiness. 

>I didn't know that a UV and a non-UV version was available, 
>nor that the UV version yellows the appearance of the print.

I'm not sure if Liquitex has a UV version either.  I was using a variety of
coatings from different companies.  Some have both UV and non-UV versions.
With at least some of the UV versions I noticed some yellowing.  As an
aside, the Golden tech person noted that the UV coatings are considerably
more effective in the solvent-based coatings.  This is also true with
respect to sealing the surface.  The water-borne versions are like soft
little balls that have lots of holes between them.

I mostly noticed the yellowing in side-by-side comparisons and with the
spectrophotometer readings.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com

____________________________



> I used the Meyer rod for applying Liquitex and Hydrocote.  For 8x10 it
> worded fine.  I never did get the system scaled up to 16x20, however.
> 
> Paul
> www.PaulRoark.com 
> 

> Paul - How do you apply the Liquitex (Meyer rod, power spray, brush-on,
> etc.)?
> 
> Ken




Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other resources as
they are often being updated.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint

If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to
unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same
page.

Please follow these basic guidelines:
- As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep
them short.
- Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames.
Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from the
membership without notice.
- Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital B&W
printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be removed from
the membership.
- By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and
guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group Owner and
Moderators. See "Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines" in the Files section:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/

BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT
YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE "OWNER" AND
"MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE LIABLE TO YOU
FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY
DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS,
GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE  "OWNER" AND
"MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE
POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY
TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR
ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY
THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER
MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP.
 
Yahoo! Groups Links

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