Digital BW, The Print

Hi

I've only recently got a 9600 for photo printing use and have been 
experimenting with some of the 2200 curves.

I found the OFB ones give quite good results with Epson 
semi-gloss. Since the printer is to be used for glossy colour as 
well, matt black ink is not really an option... 

My question is whether there is any way I can use a flatbed 
scanner to have a stab at linearisation? My attempts at 
borrowing a densitometer have been unsuccessful so far, and 
they are not exactly cheap (or plentiful on eBay here in the UK)  
I'm happy to do any calculations and have a go!

Would it possibly be easier to scan a step wedge and create a 
photoshop acv curve? or does this affect a different area of how 
the driver works?

Although happy to experiment ... if anyone has Photo black 
curves for any of the following I'd be greatful for the approriate 
numbers:
Epson  PGPP(250)
Epson Premium Semigloss Photo Paper (250)
Epson Smooth Fine Art

(why these papers? - rolls of them came with the printer :-))

As an aside to this I was wondering how  Gimp-Print 5 will 
benefit the quad side of things, given the significant architectural 
changes?

bye for now
Keith Cooper

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "kcooper666" 
<yahoogroups@n...> wrote:
> Hi
> 
> I've only recently got a 9600 for photo printing use and have been 
> experimenting with some of the 2200 curves.
> 
> I found the OFB ones give quite good results with Epson 
> semi-gloss. Since the printer is to be used for glossy colour as 
> well, matt black ink is not really an option... 
> 
> My question is whether there is any way I can use a flatbed 
> scanner to have a stab at linearisation? My attempts at 
> borrowing a densitometer have been unsuccessful so far, and 
> they are not exactly cheap (or plentiful on eBay here in the UK)  
> I'm happy to do any calculations and have a go!
> 
> Would it possibly be easier to scan a step wedge and create a 
> photoshop acv curve? or does this affect a different area of how 
> the driver works?
> 
> Although happy to experiment ... if anyone has Photo black 
> curves for any of the following I'd be greatful for the approriate 
> numbers:
> Epson  PGPP(250)
> Epson Premium Semigloss Photo Paper (250)
> Epson Smooth Fine Art
> 
> (why these papers? - rolls of them came with the printer :-))
> 
> As an aside to this I was wondering how  Gimp-Print 5 will 
> benefit the quad side of things, given the significant 
architectural 
> changes?
> 
> bye for now
> Keith Cooper

Keith;

There are some very good profiles provided by Bill Atkinson (free) 
on the Epson website, nose around a bit until you find them,

Steve Karafyllakis

Hi Keith,

I haven't got a lot of experience with glossy papers, but one thing
I noticed was that many are very similar as far as profiles.  So if
you like OFB curves it's quite possible that the same profiles will
give good results on some other papers.

If you have a "good" stepwedge you could use a fladbed scan
of the good wedge and a test wedge.  Then make a correction
curve that gets you close.

Roy



--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "kcooper666" 
<yahoogroups@n...> wrote:

> Hi
> 
> I've only recently got a 9600 for photo printing use and have been 
> experimenting with some of the 2200 curves.
> 
> I found the OFB ones give quite good results with Epson 
> semi-gloss. Since the printer is to be used for glossy colour as 
> well, matt black ink is not really an option... 
> 
> My question is whether there is any way I can use a flatbed 
> scanner to have a stab at linearisation? My attempts at 
> borrowing a densitometer have been unsuccessful so far, and 
> they are not exactly cheap (or plentiful on eBay here in the UK)  
> I'm happy to do any calculations and have a go!
> 
> Would it possibly be easier to scan a step wedge and create a 
> photoshop acv curve? or does this affect a different area of how 
> the driver works?
> 
> Although happy to experiment ... if anyone has Photo black 
> curves for any of the following I'd be greatful for the approriate 
> numbers:
> Epson  PGPP(250)
> Epson Premium Semigloss Photo Paper (250)
> Epson Smooth Fine Art
> 
> (why these papers? - rolls of them came with the printer :-))
> 
> As an aside to this I was wondering how  Gimp-Print 5 will 
> benefit the quad side of things, given the significant architectural 
> changes?
> 
> bye for now
> Keith Cooper

> There are some very good profiles provided by Bill Atkinson 
(free) 
> on the Epson website, nose around a bit until you find them,
> 
> Steve Karafyllakis

Thanks, I've been using them for some experimenting, they do 
give very good B/W  prints as well, but this question was 
specifically about QuadToneRIP curves -- I thought it was time I 
had a serious look at it. I was using Lyson SG on an 1160 for my 
B/W so the 9600 is just a bit of a change ;-)

Keith

> There are some very good profiles provided by Bill Atkinson 
(free) 
> on the Epson website, nose around a bit until you find them,
> 
> Steve Karafyllakis

Thanks, I've been using them for some experimenting, they do 
give very good B/W  prints as well, but this question was 
specifically about QuadToneRIP curves -- I thought it was time I 
had a serious look at it. I was using Lyson SG on an 1160 for my 
B/W so the 9600 is just a bit of a change ;-)

Keith

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Roy 
Harrington" <roy@h...> wrote:
> Hi Keith,
> 
> I haven't got a lot of experience with glossy papers, but one 
thing
> I noticed was that many are very similar as far as profiles.  So if
> you like OFB curves it's quite possible that the same profiles 
will
> give good results on some other papers.
> 
> If you have a "good" stepwedge you could use a fladbed scan
> of the good wedge and a test wedge.  Then make a correction
> curve that gets you close.
> 
> Roy
Thanks for that. The OFB ones are pretty good on the semigloss.  
The only real steps visible looks to be 96/97%  and 98/99%  It 
looks almost as if the K Boost is coming in a bit late. I'll get 
tinkering...

If I create a photoshop curve and name it in the quad curve file, 
does it act as well as the linearisation values that are already 
there or instead of?

I'm thinking that I've found a use for that Epson Gray balancer 
card that came with the printer!

by for now
Keith Cooper

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "kcooper666" 
<yahoogroups@n...> wrote:
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Roy 
> Harrington" <roy@h...> wrote:
> > Hi Keith,
> > 
> > I haven't got a lot of experience with glossy papers, but one 
> thing
> > I noticed was that many are very similar as far as profiles.  So if
> > you like OFB curves it's quite possible that the same profiles 
> will
> > give good results on some other papers.
> > 
> > If you have a "good" stepwedge you could use a fladbed scan
> > of the good wedge and a test wedge.  Then make a correction
> > curve that gets you close.
> > 
> > Roy
> Thanks for that. The OFB ones are pretty good on the semigloss.  
> The only real steps visible looks to be 96/97%  and 98/99%  It 
> looks almost as if the K Boost is coming in a bit late. I'll get 
> tinkering...
> 
> If I create a photoshop curve and name it in the quad curve file, 
> does it act as well as the linearisation values that are already 
> there or instead of?
> 
> I'm thinking that I've found a use for that Epson Gray balancer 
> card that came with the printer!
> 
> by for now
> Keith Cooper

You can add an additional correction curve using GRAY_CURVE=
It's applied after the linearization curve so it may be a little more
difficult to see exactly the interaction of the two curves.   But with
minor corrections I think trail and error would be possible.

Another possibility would be to use PS's custom dotgain curves
and print through a soft proof correction.  I haven't tried this but
I think this would work.

Roy

You can use VueScan and your flatbed to measure densities. In the
preview, hold the CTRL key down while you hoover on the preview image
of the stepwedge. The densities are displayed on the status bar at the
bottom of the widow.

Accuracy is so-so, but definitely better than eye inspection. I used
that as an input to the LINEARIZE in the curve definition and it
improved matters a lot.

Now I am going to the next level with an Eye One :)

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com,
"stephane_bosman" 
<stephane_bosman@y...> wrote:
> You can use VueScan and your flatbed to measure densities. In the
> preview, hold the CTRL key down while you hoover on the preview
image
> of the stepwedge. The densities are displayed on the status bar at
the
> bottom of the widow.
> 
> Accuracy is so-so, but definitely better than eye inspection. I used
> that as an input to the LINEARIZE in the curve definition and it
> improved matters a lot.
> 
> Now I am going to the next level with an Eye One :)

Actually, that is probably up two levels ;-)  I just recently got an
Eye One and  so far it's been great. For the linearizations, but also for
calibrating the monitor  and scanner.

Next level up from the scanner is probably an X-rite 810.  Not as
good as the  eye-one by any means, but in practice much, much better than 
the scanner  (epson 3200) for linearizations.  At less than 20% of the price of 
an eye-one (used on ebay) it  is not a bad option. 

Costa Colbert