Digital BW, The Print

Does anyone have a spectrophotometrically or colorimetrically 
analyzed step scale that they would be willing to send or sell me? It 
should be near neutral, not heavily toned, but exact R=G=B isn't 
necessary. Perhaps you have some previously printed test scales that 
you have analyzed that would be discarded anyway?

Thanks,

Frank

> From: njfranknj [mailto:njfranknj@...]
>
> Does anyone have a spectrophotometrically or colorimetrically
> analyzed step scale that they would be willing to send or sell me? It
> should be near neutral, not heavily toned, but exact R=G=B isn't
> necessary. Perhaps you have some previously printed test scales that
> you have analyzed that would be discarded anyway?

So you want some test strips off a printer, along with the Lab data that
describes it? What do you want to do with them? Maybe I could help.

--

Ciao,               Paul D. DeRocco
Paul                mailto:pderocco@...

Frank,

>Does anyone have a spectrophotometrically or colorimetrically 
>analyzed step scale that they would be willing to send or sell me? It 
>should be near neutral, not heavily toned, but exact R=G=B isn't 
>necessary. Perhaps you have some previously printed test scales that 
>you have analyzed that would be discarded anyway?

I would think this would be a business MIS ought to be in.  Having a
standard against which to visually measure modified step wedges seems like
an obvious product.  (On the other hand, I can imagine the calls and
complaints MIS might get if everyone was comparing their outputs to an ideal
step wedge.)  

Step wedges change slightly with time and can get badly scuffed in the mail.
To be done right, the wedges should be allowed to dry for at least a day.
To protect them they ought to be sprayed.  Then when all the ink and coating
material have had plenty of time to dry and cure, the measurements should be
made.

Glossy paper is going to need separate step-wedges.  Here the decrease in
the dmax over time will be a problem.  I think it settles down over a few
days.  I suspect it is glycol slowly evaporating, so plain-paper (a glycol
"sponge") pressed on top of the print for a night might be a good idea --
before the spraying.

To protect the test strip in the mail, some care is needed.  The Post Office
tells me it's the automatic stamp canceling machines that do the most
damage.  For important prints in envelopes I sometimes have them hand
cancelled.  I'm sure that good packaging can reasonably protect them, but
that requires more than just putting a test strip in an envelope.

In short, an old test strip might have some value, but to do it right, in a
business-like manner, it takes some care.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com

> -----Original Message-----
> From: njfranknj [mailto:njfranknj@...] 
> Sent: Friday, March 05, 2004 9:06 AM
> To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Digital BW] RGB calibrated stepscale?
> 
> 
> Does anyone have a spectrophotometrically or colorimetrically 
> analyzed step scale that they would be willing to send or sell me? It 
> should be near neutral, not heavily toned, but exact R=G=B isn't 
> necessary. Perhaps you have some previously printed test scales that 
> you have analyzed that would be discarded anyway?
> 
Frank,

Various types of calibrated step wedges, stepless wedges and other targets
can be purchased from Stouffer Graphic Arts at http://www.stouffer.net/.

Their wedges come either uncalibrated, calibrated or calibrated & certified.

Martin Wesley
www.carolynfrayn.com/Guests/MartinWesley/pages/MW_01.html
www.borderless-photos.de/guests.html

At 5:05 pm +0000 3/5/04, njfranknj wrote:

>Does anyone have a spectrophotometrically or colorimetrically 
>analyzed step scale that they would be willing to send or sell me? 
>It should be near neutral, not heavily toned, but exact R=G=B isn't 
>necessary.


Could this be what you are looking for?

<http://www.hutchcolor.com/HCT_overview.htm>

or, for reflective, maybe the calibrated Kodak IT-8 on this page?

<http://www.chromix.com/ColorGear/Shop/ProductList.cxsa?refcode=cmptarget>


-=-Dennis

Martin,

As near as I can tell from their website, Stouffer's stepscales and 
other products are only calibrated for density, not for color 
balance. I already own a couple of their stepscales and the opaque 
one is distinctly brown, not neutral gray. When I querried them on it 
the response I got was that they meet the "industry standard" for 
neutrality.

Thanks for your reply,

Frank

> -----Original Message-----
> From: njfranknj [mailto:njfranknj@...] 
> Sent: Saturday, March 06, 2004 9:13 AM
> To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [Digital BW] RGB calibrated stepscale?
> 
> 
> Martin,
> 
> As near as I can tell from their website, Stouffer's stepscales and 
> other products are only calibrated for density, not for color 
> balance. I already own a couple of their stepscales and the opaque 
> one is distinctly brown, not neutral gray. When I querried them on it 
> the response I got was that they meet the "industry standard" for 
> neutrality.

Frank,

Thanks for the info. I never bought one of their calibrated targets and
didn't realize that they only did neutral density checks. If you do have
some of their strips you could have them checked on a good color
densitometer or spectrophotometer. My X-Rite 811 reads RGB as well as
neutral or visible density. Or perhaps you need something more neutral gray
than what you have. In any case when you find what you are looking for let
us know.

Martin Wesley
www.carolynfrayn.com/Guests/MartinWesley/pages/MW_01.html
www.borderless-photos.de/guests.html

 
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor 
> ---------------------~--> Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits 
> for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. 
> Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US & Canada. 
> http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511
> http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/ucIolB/TM
> --------------------------------------------------------------
> -------~->
> 
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other 
> resources as they are often being updated.
> 
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> 
> If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or 
> you wish to unsubscribe, please edit your Membership 
> preferences by visiting this same page.
> 
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier 
> messages to keep them short.
> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks 
> or flames. Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be 
> removed from the membership without notice.
> - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of 
> digital B&W printing. Users who persistently make off-topic 
> posts may be removed from the membership.
> - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group 
> rules and guidelines, and to abide by the actions and 
> decisions of the group Owner and Moderators. See "Group 
> Topic, Rules and Guidelines" in the Files section: 
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/fil
es/

BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT
YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE "OWNER" AND
"MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE LIABLE TO YOU
FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY
DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS,
GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE  "OWNER" AND
"MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE
POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY
TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR
ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY
THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER
MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP.
 
Yahoo! Groups Links

Thanks for your reply, Dennis, but, no, that's not it. All those 
references relate to color profiling, which does not necessarily have 
the information I'm looking for - the RGB properties of neutral or 
near-neutral gray tones. The simplest thing that would satisfy me is 
an RGB-analyzed opaque (near-) neutral gray B&W stepscale, not a 
density-calibrated brownscale (Kodak and Stouffer - I have those and 
was deeply disappointed) or a full-on profiling package.

I think I finally found an up-scale version of what I need: the 
Munsell Neutral Value Scale, at $55+ rather more than I hoped to pay 
and requiring conversion of Munsell color values to RGB, but at least 
it may end this fruitless search and get me back to working on my B&W 
printing with some confidence that I've gotten rid of the worst color 
casts (which I can't see, but others can). You can't imagine how 
annoying it is when someone says of your otherwise beautiful 
B&Ws, "but that's kind of greenish, you know"; or pinkish or whatever.

Frank

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Dennis W. 
Manasco" <dmanasco@i...> wrote:
> At 5:05 pm +0000 3/5/04, njfranknj wrote:
> 
> >Does anyone have a spectrophotometrically or colorimetrically 
> >analyzed step scale that they would be willing to send or sell me? 
> >It should be near neutral, not heavily toned, but exact R=G=B 
isn't 
> >necessary.
> 
> 
> Could this be what you are looking for?
> 
> <http://www.hutchcolor.com/HCT_overview.htm>
> 
> or, for reflective, maybe the calibrated Kodak IT-8 on this page?
> 
> <http://www.chromix.com/ColorGear/Shop/ProductList.cxsa?
refcode=cmptarget>

> 
> 
> -=-Dennis