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scanner doubts

scanner doubts

2004-03-31 by Jesus RV

Dear all:

I am not sure this is the right forum for this question, but I am completel=
y sure you all are 
the right advisers, so I go:

Although I own a 6.3 mpx reflex camera, I am unsatisfied with its results i=
n several points. 
I would like to buy a scanner for negatives and slides coming from my Leica=
 M6 and my 
old Rolleiflex tlr (since I want to try everything in photography, I eventu=
ally will buy a large 
format camera, but not today). I am hesitating between a film dedicated Nik=
on coolscan 
9000 or a flatbed Epson 4870.

What would you advise me? (please)

Thank you very much
Jesús Rodriguez-Velasco

RE: [Digital BW] scanner doubts

2004-03-31 by Paul Roark

Jes�s,

If you want the most from your Rollei, get the Nikon 8000.  (There may be
bargains as the color folks go to the 9000.)  As to flatbeds, I tend to
divide the optical resolution by 2 to get an equivalent to a true film
scanner. 

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com

_____________________
Show quoted textHide quoted text
-----Original Message-----
From: Jesus RV [mailto:jrv@...] 
Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2004 10:49 AM
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Digital BW] scanner doubts

Dear all:

I am not sure this is the right forum for this question, but I am completel=

y sure you all are 
the right advisers, so I go:

Although I own a 6.3 mpx reflex camera, I am unsatisfied with its results i=

n several points. 
I would like to buy a scanner for negatives and slides coming from my Leica=

 M6 and my 
old Rolleiflex tlr (since I want to try everything in photography, I eventu=

ally will buy a large 
format camera, but not today). I am hesitating between a film dedicated Nik=

on coolscan 
9000 or a flatbed Epson 4870.

What would you advise me? (please)

Thank you very much
Jes�s Rodriguez-Velasco




Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other resources as
they are often being updated.

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Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from the
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Moderators. See �Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines� in the Files section:
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BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT
YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE �OWNER� AND
�MODERATORS� OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE LIABLE TO YOU
FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY
DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS,
GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE  �OWNER� AND
�MODERATORS� OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE
POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY
TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR
ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY
THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER
MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP.
 
Yahoo! Groups Links

Re: scanner doubts

2004-03-31 by Andre

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Roark" 
<paul.roark@v...> wrote:
> Jesús,
> 
> If you want the most from your Rollei, get the Nikon 8000.  (There 
may be
> bargains as the color folks go to the 9000.)  As to flatbeds, I 
tend to
> divide the optical resolution by 2 to get an equivalent to a true 
film
> scanner. 
> 
Paul,

Recent test by two german photo magazine (Color Foto and C't) 
indicate that for flatbeds true resolution, the ratio is about to 3 
to 1. 

Cheers,
Andre

RE: [Digital BW] scanner doubts

2004-03-31 by don.swanson

I have the Nikon 4000 and it's a great scanner. Does a better job than the
Epson 3200. That said there are other issues involved when looking at the
Epson 4870 vs. Nikon 9000. I believe the 9000 will out-perform the 4870 but
most of the time the difference will not be noticeable. I am thinking of
getting a 4870 for my 6 x 6 cm images because the cost of the Nikon 9000 is
way more, in my opinion, than the difference in quality on the few extreme
slides that I may encounter. If price was no object I would probably go with
the 9000 but realize that it only goes up to medium format film, not 4 x 5.
Hope this helps.
Show quoted textHide quoted text
-----Original Message-----
From: Jesus RV [mailto:jrv@...]
Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2004 10:49 AM
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Digital BW] scanner doubts


Dear all:

I am not sure this is the right forum for this question, but I am completely
sure you all are
the right advisers, so I go:

Although I own a 6.3 mpx reflex camera, I am unsatisfied with its results in
several points.
I would like to buy a scanner for negatives and slides coming from my Leica
M6 and my
old Rolleiflex tlr (since I want to try everything in photography, I
eventually will buy a large
format camera, but not today). I am hesitating between a film dedicated
Nikon coolscan
9000 or a flatbed Epson 4870.

What would you advise me? (please)

Thank you very much
Jes\ufffds Rodriguez-Velasco

Re: scanner doubts

2004-04-01 by Mark Hahn

I think the ratio goes up with the flatbed scanner resolution... ie. 
an Epson 2450 probably comes in at about 1800 and the 3200 at about 
2000 and the 4870 just a bit better.  The only reason I would pop for 
the 4870 would be for Digital Ice.

Looks like you can get boxed 2450s for ~$100 off ebay... quite a 
steal for a decent large format scanner... 6x6 is almost adequate on 
one.

Get the real film scanner if you have the cash.

mark

...
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> Recent test by two german photo magazine (Color Foto and C't) 
> indicate that for flatbeds true resolution, the ratio is about to 3 
> to 1. 
> 
> Cheers,
> Andre

Re: [Digital BW] Re: scanner doubts

2004-04-01 by Ernst Dinkla

Andre wrote:

> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Roark" 
> <paul.roark@v...> wrote:
> 
>>Jes\ufffds,
>>
>>If you want the most from your Rollei, get the Nikon 8000.  (There 
> 
> may be
> 
>>bargains as the color folks go to the 9000.)  As to flatbeds, I 
> 
> tend to
> 
>>divide the optical resolution by 2 to get an equivalent to a true 
> 
> film
> 
>>scanner. 
>>
> 
> Paul,
> 
> Recent test by two german photo magazine (Color Foto and C't) 
> indicate that for flatbeds true resolution, the ratio is about to 3 
> to 1. 
> 
> Cheers,
> Andre

Which can be brought to Paul's 2 to 1 with some tweaking. But you 
are right on out of the box scanning. Dmax, signal to noise is 
however almost on par with true film scanners.

My advice would be an 8000 too. But get at least a glass carrier 
for MF. The Microtek (Polaroid) 120 is most likely as good.

Ernst

scanner doubts

2004-04-01 by Stephen Kobrin

I have been thinking about getting back into MF, especially given 
what Bronica ECs are going for on Ebay at this point.  What is 
stopping me is the price of a MF film scanner.  Given that recent 
posts indicate that true resolution on a flatbed is 2-3 times lower 
than a comparable flim scanner, I wonder how adequate they are in 
practice for scanning 120 film.  Do people get 8X10 prints, for 
example, that they consider satisfactory?  Put differently, would I 
see an improvement versus 35mm scanned on a film scanner if I used 
one of the better flatbeds and 120, all things equal.  If so, a 
flatbed, which is always useful, might be a reasonable stopgap until 
I can replace my LS 2000 with a true MF film scanner.

Steve

Re: scanner doubts

2004-04-01 by Andre

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Stephen Kobrin" 
<kobrins@w...> wrote:
> I have been thinking about getting back into MF, especially given 
> what Bronica ECs are going for on Ebay at this point.  What is 
> stopping me is the price of a MF film scanner.  Given that recent 
> posts indicate that true resolution on a flatbed is 2-3 times lower 
> than a comparable flim scanner, I wonder how adequate they are in 
> practice for scanning 120 film.  Do people get 8X10 prints, for 
> example, that they consider satisfactory?  Put differently, would I 
> see an improvement versus 35mm scanned on a film scanner if I used 
> one of the better flatbeds and 120, all things equal.  If so, a 
> flatbed, which is always useful, might be a reasonable stopgap 
until 
> I can replace my LS 2000 with a true MF film scanner.
> 
> Steve

If a Nikon 8000/9000 is not feasable, than an Epson 4870 might be the 
way to go. A very decent 7.5x mf negative enlargement can be had and 
more if you use wet mounting. With the Epson just dont scan at a 
resolution higher than 3200dpi.
Cheers,
Andre

Re: [Digital BW] scanner doubts

2004-04-01 by Michael Kitei

I'm scanning mf - 6X9 - with an Epson 2450. I like what I'm getting and I'm
enlarging/printing to 13X19. No problem. Would I feel more confident that
I'm not leaving anything behind if I had a Nikon 8000 or a Microtek 120 -
probably. But like I said, I like what I'm getting.

Mike
Show quoted textHide quoted text
From: "Stephen Kobrin" <kobrins@...>
Reply-To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Date: Thu, 01 Apr 2004 14:34:32 -0000
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Digital BW] scanner doubts


I have been thinking about getting back into MF, especially given
what Bronica ECs are going for on Ebay at this point.  What is
stopping me is the price of a MF film scanner.  Given that recent
posts indicate that true resolution on a flatbed is 2-3 times lower
than a comparable flim scanner, I wonder how adequate they are in
practice for scanning 120 film.  Do people get 8X10 prints, for
example, that they consider satisfactory?  Put differently, would I
see an improvement versus 35mm scanned on a film scanner if I used
one of the better flatbeds and 120, all things equal.  If so, a
flatbed, which is always useful, might be a reasonable stopgap until
I can replace my LS 2000 with a true MF film scanner.

Steve



Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other resources as
they are often being updated.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint

If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to
unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same
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Please follow these basic guidelines:
- As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep
them short.
- Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames.
Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from the
membership without notice.
- Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital B&W
printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be removed from
the membership.
- By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and
guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group Owner and
Moderators. See “Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines” in the Files section:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/

BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT
YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE “OWNER” AND
“MODERATORS” OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE LIABLE TO YOU
FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY
DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS,
GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE  “OWNER” AND
“MODERATORS” OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE
POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY
TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR
ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY
THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER
MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP.






Yahoo! Groups Links
To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/
 
To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
<mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Uns
ubscribe> 
 
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service
<http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [Digital BW] Re: scanner doubts

2004-04-01 by Michael Kitei

How do you wet mount on an epson.

Mike
Show quoted textHide quoted text
From: "Andre" <am1000@...>
Reply-To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Date: Thu, 01 Apr 2004 16:14:06 -0000
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Digital BW] Re: scanner doubts


--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Stephen Kobrin"
<kobrins@w...> wrote:
> I have been thinking about getting back into MF, especially given
> what Bronica ECs are going for on Ebay at this point.  What is
> stopping me is the price of a MF film scanner.  Given that recent
> posts indicate that true resolution on a flatbed is 2-3 times lower
> than a comparable flim scanner, I wonder how adequate they are in
> practice for scanning 120 film.  Do people get 8X10 prints, for
> example, that they consider satisfactory?  Put differently, would I
> see an improvement versus 35mm scanned on a film scanner if I used
> one of the better flatbeds and 120, all things equal.  If so, a
> flatbed, which is always useful, might be a reasonable stopgap
until 
> I can replace my LS 2000 with a true MF film scanner.
> 
> Steve

If a Nikon 8000/9000 is not feasable, than an Epson 4870 might be the
way to go. A very decent 7.5x mf negative enlargement can be had and
more if you use wet mounting. With the Epson just dont scan at a
resolution higher than 3200dpi.
Cheers,
Andre



Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other resources as
they are often being updated.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint

If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to
unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same
page.

Please follow these basic guidelines:
- As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep
them short.
- Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames.
Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from the
membership without notice.
- Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital B&W
printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be removed from
the membership.
- By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and
guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group Owner and
Moderators. See “Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines” in the Files section:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/

BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT
YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE “OWNER” AND
“MODERATORS” OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE LIABLE TO YOU
FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY
DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS,
GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE  “OWNER” AND
“MODERATORS” OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE
POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY
TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR
ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY
THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER
MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP.






Yahoo! Groups Links
To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/
 
To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
<mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Uns
ubscribe> 
 
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service
<http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Digital BW] Re: scanner doubts

2004-04-01 by Andre

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Michael Kitei 
<mkitei@b...> wrote:
> How do you wet mount on an epson.
> 
> Mike

I would refer you to the Epson 3200 Yahoo group. There's been 
extensive discussion about wet mounting over there by Ernst Dinkla 
and others.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/epson3200/

Cheers,
Andre

Re: [Digital BW] Re: scanner doubts

2004-04-02 by Glenn Barry

I just went and read a lot of the discussion on wet mounting, although it's
not directly B&W printing related very informative and well worth a read as
the results sound very promising, especially with medium and large formats
originals.

Now if I can get the money together to afford a 4870 I'm away...;-)

Glenn

----- Original Message -----
From: "Andre" <am1000@...>
To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, April 02, 2004 8:02 AM
Subject: [Digital BW] Re: scanner doubts


> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Michael Kitei
> <mkitei@b...> wrote:
> > How do you wet mount on an epson.
> >
> > Mike
>
> I would refer you to the Epson 3200 Yahoo group. There's been
> extensive discussion about wet mounting over there by Ernst Dinkla
> and others.
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/epson3200/
>
> Cheers,
> Andre
>
>
>
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other resources as
they are often being updated.
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
>
> If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to
unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same
page.
>
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep
them short.
> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames.
Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from the
membership without notice.
> - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital B&W
printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be removed from
the membership.
> - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and
guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group Owner and
Moderators. See "Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines" in the Files section:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/
>
> BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT
YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE "OWNER" AND
"MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE LIABLE TO YOU
FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY
DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS,
GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE  "OWNER" AND
"MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE
POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY
TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR
ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY
THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER
MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP.
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>

Re: scanner doubts

2004-04-02 by Mark Hahn

with my 2450 which is slightly worse than the current Epson scanners 
I easily get good 8x10s from medium format.  While you don't get 
the "true" increase in quality going to medium format vs. 35mm in 
this way you do get near grainless prints that look very good.  Also, 
the lack in ultimate scanner sharpness acts like an analog grain 
filter, so even with Tri-X you get good smooth images.

mark

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Stephen Kobrin" 
<kobrins@w...> wrote:
> I have been thinking about getting back into MF, especially given 
> what Bronica ECs are going for on Ebay at this point.  What is 
> stopping me is the price of a MF film scanner.  Given that recent 
> posts indicate that true resolution on a flatbed is 2-3 times lower 
> than a comparable flim scanner, I wonder how adequate they are in 
> practice for scanning 120 film.  Do people get 8X10 prints, for 
> example, that they consider satisfactory?  Put differently, would I 
> see an improvement versus 35mm scanned on a film scanner if I used 
> one of the better flatbeds and 120, all things equal.  If so, a 
> flatbed, which is always useful, might be a reasonable stopgap 
until
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> I can replace my LS 2000 with a true MF film scanner.
> 
> Steve

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