Digital BW, The Print

Hi all

I am desperately trying to clean a medium format slide that has become soiled. (The scan 
just has too much to deal with.) I have purchased some Film Cleaner by SDS Scanner Drum 
Service Gmbh but am still struggling as the solution itself seems to leave smears on the 
film.  Any tips or ideas? - other than shoot digital to begin with :-) 

Cheers

Steve

Have you tried the simple "soak it in warm water for about 20 minutes"? 
Sometimes the dirt will just loosen up and rinse off. After you soak 
it, be sure to immerse it in a E-6 final rinse solution or at least 
some PhotoFlo before drying.
Mark

On Mar 30, 2004, at 6:23 AM, Steve Kale wrote:

> Hi all
>
>  I am desperately trying to clean a medium format slide that has 
> become soiled. (The scan
>  just has too much to deal with.) I have purchased some Film Cleaner 
> by SDS Scanner Drum
>  Service Gmbh but am still struggling as the solution itself seems to 
> leave smears on the
>  film.� Any tips or ideas? - other than shoot digital to begin with :-)
>
>  Cheers
>
>  Steve
>
>
>
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other 
> resources as they are often being updated.
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
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> the membership without notice.
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> B&W printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be 
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> LIABLE TO YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, 
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> DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE 
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> YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), 
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> THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR ALTERATION OF 
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>  

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi Mark

No I haven't but that's a good idea.  I don't have any E-6 final rinse
solution or Photoflow but I guess I could get some from my lab.  I think the
only stuff that is really left on the film is residue from the Film Cleaner
so maybe the final rinse solution is the way to go....

Thanks 

Steve

> From: Mark Savoia <mark@...>
> Reply-To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 07:04:34 -0500
> To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Cleaning slide film
> 
> Have you tried the simple "soak it in warm water for about 20 minutes"?
> Sometimes the dirt will just loosen up and rinse off. After you soak
> it, be sure to immerse it in a E-6 final rinse solution or at least
> some PhotoFlo before drying.
> Mark
>

The best cleaner I have found is PEC-12 by Photographic Solutions - I
have found it to be very good. The url is:
http://www.photographicsolutions.com/
Cheers
Jayanand Govindaraj
Chennai, India

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Steve Kale" <stevekale@...>
To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 4:53 PM
Subject: [Digital BW] Cleaning slide film


Hi all

I am desperately trying to clean a medium format slide that has become
soiled. (The scan
just has too much to deal with.) I have purchased some Film Cleaner by
SDS Scanner Drum
Service Gmbh but am still struggling as the solution itself seems to
leave smears on the
film.  Any tips or ideas? - other than shoot digital to begin with :-)

Cheers

Steve



Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other resources
as they are often being updated.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint

If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to
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same page.

Please follow these basic guidelines:
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Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from the
membership without notice.
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printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be removed
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- By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and
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BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT
YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE "OWNER" AND
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On the same topic, I decided to haul out my dad's old slides to try 
to scan and print some.  A large batch of them have light mildew 
spots on the film, from poor storage.  Any suggestions for cleaning 
those?  On a household surface, a bleach solution would be used.

Thanks,

Don M
[first post, excited to find this group]


--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Mark Savoia 
<mark@c...> wrote:
> Have you tried the simple "soak it in warm water for about 20 
minutes"? 
> Sometimes the dirt will just loosen up and rinse off. After you 
soak 
> it, be sure to immerse it in a E-6 final rinse solution or at 
least 
> some PhotoFlo before drying.
> Mark
> 
> On Mar 30, 2004, at 6:23 AM, Steve Kale wrote:
> 
> > Hi all
> >
> >  I am desperately trying to clean a medium format slide that has 
> > become soiled. (The scan
> >  just has too much to deal with.) I have purchased some Film 
Cleaner 
> > by SDS Scanner Drum
> >  Service Gmbh but am still struggling as the solution itself 
seems to 
> > leave smears on the
> >  film.  Any tips or ideas? - other than shoot digital to begin 
with :-)
> >
> >  Cheers
> >
> >  Steve
> >
> >
> >
> > Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other 
> > resources as they are often being updated.
> >
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> >
> >  If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you 
wish 
> > to unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by 
visiting 
> > this same page.
> >
> >  Please follow these basic guidelines:
> >  - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier 
messages to 
> > keep them short.
> >  - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or 
> > flames. Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be 
removed from 
> > the membership without notice.
> >  - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of 
digital 
> > B&W printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be 
> > removed from the membership.
> >  - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group 
rules and 
> > guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the 
group 
> > Owner and Moderators. See "Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines" in 
the 
> > Files section:
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/
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> >  BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, 
THE 
> > PRINT YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT 
THE "OWNER" 
> > AND "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT 
BE 
> > LIABLE TO YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, 
> > CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED 
TO, 
> > DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER 
INTANGIBLE 
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PRINT 
> > YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH 
DAMAGES), 
> > RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY TO USE THE DIGITAL 
BW, 
> > THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR ALTERATION 
OF 
> > YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY 
THIRD 
> > PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY 
OTHER 
> > MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> > 	• 	To visit your group on the web, go to:
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Terms of 

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> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Do not use bleach! Try the soak in water first.
Mark

On Mar 30, 2004, at 7:56 AM, dmcluckie wrote:

> On the same topic, I decided to haul out my dad's old slides to try
>  to scan and print some.� A large batch of them have light mildew
>  spots on the film, from poor storage.� Any suggestions for cleaning
>  those?� On a household surface, a bleach solution would be used.
>
>  Thanks,
>
>  Don M
>  [first post, excited to find this group]
>
>
>  --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Mark Savoia
>  <mark@c...> wrote:
>  > Have you tried the simple "soak it in warm water for about 20
>  minutes"?
>  > Sometimes the dirt will just loosen up and rinse off. After you
>  soak
>  > it, be sure to immerse it in a E-6 final rinse solution or at
>  least
>  > some PhotoFlo before drying.
>  > Mark
>  >
>  > On Mar 30, 2004, at 6:23 AM, Steve Kale wrote:
>  >
>  > > Hi all
>  > >
>  > >� I am desperately trying to clean a medium format slide that has
>  > > become soiled. (The scan
>  > >� just has too much to deal with.) I have purchased some Film
>  Cleaner
>  > > by SDS Scanner Drum
>  > >� Service Gmbh but am still struggling as the solution itself
>  seems to
>  > > leave smears on the
>  > >� film.� Any tips or ideas? - other than shoot digital to begin
>  with :-)
>  > >
>  > >� Cheers
>  > >
>  > >� Steve
>  > >
>  > >
>  > >
>  > > Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other
>  > > resources as they are often being updated.
>  > >
>  > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
>  > >
>  > >� If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you
>  wish
>  > > to unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by
>  visiting
>  > > this same page.
>  > >
>  > >� Please follow these basic guidelines:
>  > >� - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier
>  messages to
>  > > keep them short.
>  > >� - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or
>  > > flames. Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be
>  removed from
>  > > the membership without notice.
>  > >� - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of
>  digital
>  > > B&W printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be
>  > > removed from the membership.
>  > >� - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group
>  rules and
>  > > guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the
>  group
>  > > Owner and Moderators. See "Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines" in
>  the
>  > > Files section:
>  > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/
>  > >
>  > >� BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW,
>  THE
>  > > PRINT YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT
>  THE "OWNER"
>  > > AND "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT
>  BE
>  > > LIABLE TO YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL,
>  > > CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED
>  TO,
>  > > DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER
>  INTANGIBLE
>  > > LOSSES (EVEN IF THE� "OWNER" AND "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE
>  PRINT
>  > > YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH
>  DAMAGES),
>  > > RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY TO USE THE DIGITAL
>  BW,
>  > > THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR ALTERATION
>  OF
>  > > YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY
>  THIRD
>  > > PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY
>  OTHER
>  > > MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP.
>  > >
>  > >
>  > >
>  > >
>  > > Yahoo! Groups Links
>  > >
>  > > ����� � ����� To visit your group on the web, go to:
>  > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/
>  > > �
>  > > ����� � ����� To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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>  > > ����� � ����� Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
>  Terms of
>  > > Service.
>  > >
>  > >�
>  >
>  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other 
> resources as they are often being updated.
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
>
>  If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish 
> to unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting 
> this same page.
>
>  Please follow these basic guidelines:
>  - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to 
> keep them short.
>  - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or 
> flames. Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from 
> the membership without notice.
>  - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital 
> B&W printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be 
> removed from the membership.
>  - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and 
> guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group 
> Owner and Moderators. See �Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines� in the 
> Files section:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/
>
>  BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE 
> PRINT YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE �OWNER� 
> AND �MODERATORS� OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE 
> LIABLE TO YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, 
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> DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE 
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> YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), 
> RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, 
> THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR ALTERATION OF 
> YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD 
> PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER 
> MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP.
>
>
>
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>  

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Do your scanning on a machine with ICE.  If you have Kodachrome's with mold, ICE4 would be necessary to completely rid your images of the mold.  ICE slows down the scanning process, but it's can be a miracle worker on real problem film.
 
Tom Baker

Steve Kale <stevekale@...> wrote:
Hi all

I am desperately trying to clean a medium format slide that has become soiled. (The scan 
just has too much to deal with.) I have purchased some Film Cleaner by SDS Scanner Drum 
Service Gmbh but am still struggling as the solution itself seems to leave smears on the 
film.  Any tips or ideas? - other than shoot digital to begin with :-) 

Cheers

Steve



Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other resources as they are often being updated.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint

If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same page.

Please follow these basic guidelines:
- As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep them short.
- Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames. Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from the membership without notice.
- Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital B&W printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be removed from the membership.
- By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group Owner and Moderators. See �Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines� in the Files section:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/

BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE �OWNER� AND �MODERATORS� OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE LIABLE TO YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE  �OWNER� AND �MODERATORS� OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP.




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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Tom, I'm not sure that mold can be removed with ICE :)
ICE hasn't  worked that well for me with Kodachrome.
Steve, I'd try the PEC-12, or similar film cleaner, suggestion first.
If that doesn't work, soak in Photoflo, even rub gently between thumb 
and forefinger, hang to dry.

John Toles
Dragonfly Imaging & Printing
http://www.dragonflyprinting.com/
http://www.dragonflygallery.ca/

On Mar 30, 2004, at 10:23 AM, Tom Baker wrote:

> Do your scanning on a machine with ICE.  If you have Kodachrome's with 
> mold, ICE4 would be necessary to completely rid your images of the 
> mold.  ICE slows down the scanning process, but it's can be a miracle 
> worker on real problem film.
>
> Tom Baker
>
> Steve Kale <stevekale@...> wrote:
> Hi all
>
> I am desperately trying to clean a medium format slide that has become 
> soiled. (The scan
> just has too much to deal with.) I have purchased some Film Cleaner by 
> SDS Scanner Drum
> Service Gmbh but am still struggling as the solution itself seems to 
> leave smears on the
> film.  Any tips or ideas? - other than shoot digital to begin with :-)
>
> Cheers
>
> Steve

The new version of ICE, version 4, is designed to work on Kodachrome.  You're right, though, on the previous version it didn't do much.
 
Tom Baker

Dragonfly Imaging & Printing <dragonfly.printing@...> wrote:
Tom, I'm not sure that mold can be removed with ICE :)
ICE hasn't  worked that well for me with Kodachrome.
Steve, I'd try the PEC-12, or similar film cleaner, suggestion first.
If that doesn't work, soak in Photoflo, even rub gently between thumb 
and forefinger, hang to dry.

John Toles
Dragonfly Imaging & Printing
http://www.dragonflyprinting.com/
http://www.dragonflygallery.ca/

On Mar 30, 2004, at 10:23 AM, Tom Baker wrote:

> Do your scanning on a machine with ICE.  If you have Kodachrome's with 
> mold, ICE4 would be necessary to completely rid your images of the 
> mold.  ICE slows down the scanning process, but it's can be a miracle 
> worker on real problem film.
>
> Tom Baker
>
> Steve Kale <stevekale@...> wrote:
> Hi all
>
> I am desperately trying to clean a medium format slide that has become 
> soiled. (The scan
> just has too much to deal with.) I have purchased some Film Cleaner by 
> SDS Scanner Drum
> Service Gmbh but am still struggling as the solution itself seems to 
> leave smears on the
> film.  Any tips or ideas? - other than shoot digital to begin with :-)
>
> Cheers
>
> Steve



Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other resources as they are often being updated.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint

If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same page.

Please follow these basic guidelines:
- As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep them short.
- Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames. Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from the membership without notice.
- Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital B&W printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be removed from the membership.
- By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group Owner and Moderators. See �Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines� in the Files section:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/

BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE �OWNER� AND �MODERATORS� OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE LIABLE TO YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE  �OWNER� AND �MODERATORS� OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP.



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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Cool.
Thanks for pointing that out Tom.
Cheers, John

On Mar 30, 2004, at 12:06 PM, Tom Baker wrote:

> The new version of ICE, version 4, is designed to work on Kodachrome.  
> You're right, though, on the previous version it didn't do much.
>
> Tom Baker
>
> Dragonfly Imaging & Printing <dragonfly.printing@...> wrote:
> Tom, I'm not sure that mold can be removed with ICE :)
> ICE hasn't  worked that well for me with Kodachrome.
> Steve, I'd try the PEC-12, or similar film cleaner, suggestion first.
> If that doesn't work, soak in Photoflo, even rub gently between thumb
> and forefinger, hang to dry.
>
> John Toles
> Dragonfly Imaging & Printing
> http://www.dragonflyprinting.com/
> http://www.dragonflygallery.ca/
>
> On Mar 30, 2004, at 10:23 AM, Tom Baker wrote:
>
>> Do your scanning on a machine with ICE.  If you have Kodachrome's with
>> mold, ICE4 would be necessary to completely rid your images of the
>> mold.  ICE slows down the scanning process, but it's can be a miracle
>> worker on real problem film.
>>
>> Tom Baker
>>
>> Steve Kale <stevekale@...> wrote:
>> Hi all
>>
>> I am desperately trying to clean a medium format slide that has become
>> soiled. (The scan
>> just has too much to deal with.) I have purchased some Film Cleaner by
>> SDS Scanner Drum
>> Service Gmbh but am still struggling as the solution itself seems to
>> leave smears on the
>> film.  Any tips or ideas? - other than shoot digital to begin with :-)
>>
>> Cheers
>>
>> Steve
>
>
>
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other 
> resources as they are often being updated.
>
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I worked in commercial/professional labs for over six years, film cleaner to
begin with as it dehydrates the mould mildew, then a it's a good idea to
wash in water with photoflo/ E-6 final rinse and hang dry. Most often
cleaning with film cleaners does leave streaks. Whenever any stuff came in
that was dirty a quick rinse with photo flo diluted in water works a treat,
or alternatively you can use cotton buds dipped in photoflo, wipe very
gently though.
----- Original Message -----
From: "dmcluckie" <don@...>
To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 10:56 PM
Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Cleaning slide film


> On the same topic, I decided to haul out my dad's old slides to try
> to scan and print some.  A large batch of them have light mildew
> spots on the film, from poor storage.  Any suggestions for cleaning
> those?  On a household surface, a bleach solution would be used.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Don M
> [first post, excited to find this group]
>
>
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Mark Savoia
> <mark@c...> wrote:
> > Have you tried the simple "soak it in warm water for about 20
> minutes"?
> > Sometimes the dirt will just loosen up and rinse off. After you
> soak
> > it, be sure to immerse it in a E-6 final rinse solution or at
> least
> > some PhotoFlo before drying.
> > Mark
> >
> > On Mar 30, 2004, at 6:23 AM, Steve Kale wrote:
> >
> > > Hi all
> > >
> > >  I am desperately trying to clean a medium format slide that has
> > > become soiled. (The scan
> > >  just has too much to deal with.) I have purchased some Film
> Cleaner
> > > by SDS Scanner Drum
> > >  Service Gmbh but am still struggling as the solution itself
> seems to
> > > leave smears on the
> > >  film. Any tips or ideas? - other than shoot digital to begin
> with :-)
> > >
> > >  Cheers
> > >
> > >  Steve
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other
> > > resources as they are often being updated.
> > >
> > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> > >
> > >  If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you
> wish
> > > to unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by
> visiting
> > > this same page.
> > >
> > >  Please follow these basic guidelines:
> > >  - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier
> messages to
> > > keep them short.
> > >  - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or
> > > flames. Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be
> removed from
> > > the membership without notice.
> > >  - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of
> digital
> > > B&W printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be
> > > removed from the membership.
> > >  - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group
> rules and
> > > guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the
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> > > Owner and Moderators. See "Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines" in
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> > >
> > >  BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW,
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> > > PRINT YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT
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> > > AND "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT
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> > > YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH
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> > > THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR ALTERATION
> OF
> > > YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY
> THIRD
> > > PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY
> OTHER
> > > MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > >
> > > . To visit your group on the web, go to:
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> > >
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> Terms of
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> > >
> > >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other resources as
they are often being updated.
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
>
> If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to
unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same
page.
>
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
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them short.
> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames.
Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from the
membership without notice.
> - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital B&W
printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be removed from
the membership.
> - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and
guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group Owner and
Moderators. See "Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines" in the Files section:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/
>
> BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT
YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE "OWNER" AND
"MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE LIABLE TO YOU
FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY
DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS,
GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE  "OWNER" AND
"MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE
POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY
TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR
ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY
THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER
MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP.

>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>

Ok my Lab was kind enough to give me some Photoflo.  I am not familiar with
these chemicals and really don¹t want to mess this up so just to check: 1.
Can I use Photoflo with Fuji Provia film?  2.  How much Photoflo to water
should I use?  3.  Is drip dry enough or do I wipe it with something?  I
think the only dirt left on the slide is the smear left by the film cleaner.

Thanks

Steve

From: "Glenn Barry" <glennrbarry@...>
Reply-To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 07:02:38 +1000
To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Cleaning slide film

I worked in commercial/professional labs for over six years, film cleaner to
begin with as it dehydrates the mould mildew, then a it's a good idea to
wash in water with photoflo/ E-6 final rinse and hang dry. Most often
cleaning with film cleaners does leave streaks. Whenever any stuff came in
that was dirty a quick rinse with photo flo diluted in water works a treat,
or alternatively you can use cotton buds dipped in photoflo, wipe very
gently though.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I recently subscribed here, and I can tell I'm in over my head.  You 
folks are doing complicated printing that I probably will never attempt.

I wondered if anyone can point me to any websites or books they've found 
good for someone just beginning to work with digital B&W ?

Just to explain, I'm a casual photographer.  20 years ago learned how to 
shoot a Pentax K1000 manual SLR, and I understand the basics of 
photography.  I always wanted to shoot some B&W but never got around to it, 
save a few C-41 process rolls here and there.

Now the digital world offers so much in the way of B&W options.  And I'm 
getting started.

But as I say, I think I need to be sent somewhere for beginners first.  Any 
recommendations?

Thanks,

Don M

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Don M <don@m...> 
> But as I say, I think I need to be sent somewhere for beginners 
first.  Any 
> recommendations?
> 

Don,

EZ Black & White by Paul Roark.

Just follow this link. Its about simple b&w printing. Nothing 
complicated. Plain and simple. And cheap too!

http://www.inksupply.com/index.cfm?source=html/utez.html

Cheers,
Andre

Don,

Andre is probably right.  The C82/84 and EZ B&W is about as easy as it gets.

I'll send you a handout I use for genealogy talks that has a information for
beginners that will help.  (Sorry I don't have the time today to modify it
for your specific situation.)

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com 

For UT2 information, curves, and settings see:
http://home1.gte.net/res09aij/
___________________________________

-----Original Message-----
From: Andre [mailto:am1000@...] 
Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2004 11:55 AM
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Digital BW] Re: BW basics resources

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Don M <don@m...> 
> But as I say, I think I need to be sent somewhere for beginners 
first.  Any 
> recommendations?
> 

Don,

EZ Black & White by Paul Roark.

Just follow this link. Its about simple b&w printing. Nothing 
complicated. Plain and simple. And cheap too!

http://www.inksupply.com/index.cfm?source=html/utez.html

Cheers,
Andre







Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other resources as
they are often being updated.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint

If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to
unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same
page.

Please follow these basic guidelines:
- As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep
them short.
- Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames.
Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from the
membership without notice.
- Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital B&W
printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be removed from
the membership.
- By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and
guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group Owner and
Moderators. See "Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines" in the Files section:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/

BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT
YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE "OWNER" AND
"MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE LIABLE TO YOU
FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY
DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS,
GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE  "OWNER" AND
"MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE
POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY
TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR
ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY
THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER
MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP.
 
Yahoo! Groups Links

> From: Don M [mailto:don@...]
>
>   I recently subscribed here, and I can tell I'm in over my head.  You
> folks are doing complicated printing that I probably will never attempt.
>
> I wondered if anyone can point me to any websites or books they've found
> good for someone just beginning to work with digital B&W ?
>
> Just to explain, I'm a casual photographer.  20 years ago learned how to
> shoot a Pentax K1000 manual SLR, and I understand the basics of
> photography.  I always wanted to shoot some B&W but never got
> around to it,
> save a few C-41 process rolls here and there.
>
> Now the digital world offers so much in the way of B&W options.  And I'm
> getting started.
>
> But as I say, I think I need to be sent somewhere for beginners
> first.  Any recommendations?

You think B&W is complicated, try color. ;-)

My advice, for the greatest simplicity, is to start out in black-only (BO)
ink mode, if your printer has such a mode. The results will be a bit
grainier than using color inks to do B&W, but you don't have to worry about
color casts, beyond the slight uniform cast built into the black ink. (E.g.,
Epson 2200 black ink tends to the warm side.)

Unless you're shooting and scanning B&W film, this still leaves the issue of
how to convert from color to B&W in the first place. If you have Photoshop,
the Channel Mixer is a good general tool to use for the conversion, followed
by judicious use of Curves to optimize the contrast range. If you have other
editing software that doesn't have the equivalent of Channel Mixer, you can
generally accomplish the same sort of thing by manipulating the levels of
the individual color channels before doing the usual color to B&W
conversion. You often have to yank the individual color curves around pretty
drastically to get a good B&W image, much more than you'd ever dare do for a
color image.

--

Ciao,               Paul D. DeRocco
Paul                mailto:pderocco@...

Paul D. DeRocco wrote:
>
>
>You think B&W is complicated, try color. ;-)


Good point!

I have begun using Picture Window Pro instead of Photoshop, although I am 
taking a PS class so I'm learning it too.
In PWP when I convert a color image to monochrome, I can apply a Wratten 
filter number to it, which I think is very nice.  And it seems to have very 
good controls for color and related manipulations.

Ciao,
Don

>
>
>Unless you're shooting and scanning B&W film, this still leaves the issue of
>how to convert from color to B&W in the first place. If you have Photoshop,
>the Channel Mixer is a good general tool to use for the conversion, followed
>by judicious use of Curves to optimize the contrast range. If you have other
>editing software that doesn't have the equivalent of Channel Mixer, you can
>generally accomplish the same sort of thing by manipulating the levels of
>the individual color channels before doing the usual color to B&W
>conversion. You often have to yank the individual color curves around pretty
>drastically to get a good B&W image, much more than you'd ever dare do for a
>color image.
>
>--
>
>Ciao,               Paul D. DeRocco
>Paul                mailto:pderocco@...

Very interesting.  Starting from scratch, does it matter which printer to 
buy, the C82 vs C84?

-Don M



Andre wrote:

>--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Don M <don@m...>
> > But as I say, I think I need to be sent somewhere for beginners
>first.  Any
> > recommendations?
> >
>
>Don,
>
>EZ Black & White by Paul Roark.
>
>Just follow this link. Its about simple b&w printing. Nothing
>complicated. Plain and simple. And cheap too!
>
>http://www.inksupply.com/index.cfm?source=html/utez.html
>
>Cheers,
>Andre

Don,
I bought the C84 brand new from Office Depot for $75 and ordered the EZ inks
from MIS. It works like a charm, very rich B&W prints. Or course, it starts
with the eye ...

My biggest piece of advice is to learn Photoshop. It's a steep learning
curve, but worth taking the time to learn.

I plan to move to the 1280 once I get more comfortable, but finding the C84
inexpensive and too easy right now.
Cheers,
George

> ----------
> From: 	Don M
> Reply To: 	DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: 	Wednesday, March 31, 2004 2:41 PM
> To: 	DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: 	Re: [Digital BW] Re: BW basics resources
> 
> Very interesting.  Starting from scratch, does it matter which printer to 
> buy, the C82 vs C84?
> 
> -Don M
> 
> 
> 
> Andre wrote:
> >--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Don M <don@m...>
> > > But as I say, I think I need to be sent somewhere for beginners
> >first.  Any
> > > recommendations?
> > >
> >
> >Don,
> >
> >EZ Black & White by Paul Roark.
> >
> >Just follow this link. Its about simple b&w printing. Nothing
> >complicated. Plain and simple. And cheap too!
> >
> >http://www.inksupply.com/index.cfm?source=html/utez.html
> >
> >Cheers,
> >Andre
> 
> 
> 
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other resources as
> they are often being updated.
> 
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> 
> If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to
> unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same
> page.
> 
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep
> them short.
> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames.
> Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from the
> membership without notice.
> - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital B&W
> printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be removed from
> the membership.
> - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and
> guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group Owner
> and Moderators. See "Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines" in the Files
> section:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/
> 
> BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT
> YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE "OWNER" AND
> "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE LIABLE TO
> YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR
> EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF
> PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE
> "OWNER" AND "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN
> ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE
> OR THE INABILITY TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii)
> UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii)
> STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT
> YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE
> PRINT YAHOO GROUP.
>  
> Yahoo! Groups Links
> 
> 
> 
>  
> 
>

Don,

>I have begun using Picture Window Pro instead of Photoshop, ...

Good move.  I support PW as well as PS because both use the same curves.
Although I have PS CS and like it, I think Adobe's latest licensing scheme
puts them over the top in being pigs.  I don't appreciate having to pay for
another new, full-price copy for my laptop, and I won't do it.  I'm back to
using PS 6 to make curves anyway because of its greater compatibility.  I
intend to always support some competition to PS in both curves and the
workflow I use.

> Starting from scratch, does it matter which printer to buy, 
>the C82 vs C84?

The C82 is discontinued, but still available in a number of places.  It has
a more linear output that matches my CRT better.  The C84 has a
higher-contrast output that matches the LCD monitors in the house better.
They seem to be the same otherwise.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com 

For UT2 information, curves, and settings see:
http://home1.gte.net/res09aij/

Photoflo is essentially low suds dishwashing
liquid, O.K a slight oversimplification, but
in a pinch you can use a drop or two of dish
washing detergent, to lower the surface
tension and aviod drying streaks. Tip that
may come in handy one day for someone

If you have a small clean tray, say 4" x 5"
or 6" x 8" put some water in there then add 3
or 4 drops of photoflo. 

Let your slide soak for a while, the extra
time can be beneficial as when the emulsion
swells and gets softer dirt and other things
attached are more likely to float off. Don't
worry that the image will look to become
cloudy, you haven't damaged anything, you can
also dip a cotton ball into the
water/photoflo solution and drag this across
the slide, gently with the emulsion side. 

Once finished take it out and hang dry in a
as dust free environment as possible. This
can be anywhere, but if you want to eliminate
all doubt, go into the bathroom, run the
shower on full hot for a couple of minutes to
really steam it up, then allow the steam to
dissipate. This room will now be the most
dust free in the house. When you do hang it,
do it by a corner as it can help to eliminate
water droplets forming along an entire edge.

If you want to wipe it with something,
chamois moistened in the water/photoflo
solution, but this step is best avoided,
unless you're positive it's totally clean as
you really do risk scratches with a soft emulsion

Small point Photoflo is colourless and
odourless, so keep out of reach of children

Glenn


> Steve Kale <stevekale@...> wrote:
> 
> Ok my Lab was kind enough to give me some
Photoflo.  I am not
> familiar with
> these chemicals and really don\ufffdt want to
mess this up so just to
> check: 1.
> Can I use Photoflo with Fuji Provia film? 
2.  How much Photoflo to
> water
> should I use?  3.  Is drip dry enough or do
I wipe it with something?
>  I
> think the only dirt left on the slide is
the smear left by the film
> cleaner.
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Steve
> 
> 
> From: "Glenn Barry"
<glennrbarry@...>
> Reply-To:
DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 07:02:38 +1000
> To:
<DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Cleaning slide film
> 
> I worked in commercial/professional labs
for over six years, film
> cleaner to
> begin with as it dehydrates the mould
mildew, then a it's a good idea
> to
> wash in water with photoflo/ E-6 final
rinse and hang dry. Most often
> cleaning with film cleaners does leave
streaks. Whenever any stuff
> came in
> that was dirty a quick rinse with photo flo
diluted in water works a
> treat,
> or alternatively you can use cotton buds
dipped in photoflo, wipe
> very
> gently though.
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have
been removed]
> 
> 
> 
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check
the Files, and other
> resources as they are often being updated.
> 
>
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> 
> If you wish to receive no emails or just a
daily digest, or you wish
> to unsubscribe, please edit your Membership
preferences by visiting
> this same page.
> 
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> - As threads develop, trim off excess
portions of earlier messages to
> keep them short.
> - Good manners are required at all time. No
personal attacks or
> flames. Hostile, aggressive or
argumentative users may be removed
> from the membership without notice.
> - Keep your posts and threads related to
the group topic of digital
> B&W printing. Users who persistently make
off-topic posts may be
> removed from the membership.
> - By posting on this forum you agree to
abide by the group rules and
> guidelines, and to abide by the actions and
decisions of the group
> Owner and Moderators. See \ufffdGroup Topic,
Rules and Guidelines\ufffd in the
> Files section:
>
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/
> 
> BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES
TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE
> PRINT YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND
AND AGREE THAT THE
> \ufffdOWNER\ufffd AND \ufffdMODERATORS\ufffd OF DIGITAL BW, THE
PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL
> NOT BE LIABLE TO YOU FOR ANY DIRECT,
INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL,
> CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY DAMAGES,
INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO,
> DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE,
DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE
> LOSSES (EVEN IF THE  \ufffdOWNER\ufffd AND
\ufffdMODERATORS\ufffd OF DIGITAL BW, THE
> PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE
POSSIBILITY OF SUCH
> DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR
THE INABILITY TO USE THE
> DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii)
UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR
> ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA;
(iii) STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT
> OF ANY THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE
PRINT YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv)
> ANY OTHER MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL
BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP.
>  
> Yahoo! Groups Links
> 
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/
> 
>     
DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> 
>

Photoflo is a surfactant, one constituant of most dishwashing concoctions. =
 In other words 
as you say it reduces surface tension, but it does not necessarily dissolve=
 greases etc.  
Might or not.

So use film cleaner for anything other than JUST water spots.  and there sh=
ould be no 
streaks after the film cleaner.  If there are, either not enough was used (=
too much goop to 
cleaner) or the applicator (Qtip, tissue or whatever0 was not clean.

Yes, I too have had streaks at first, but then I did it again right.

Scott

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, glennrbarry@o... wrote=
:

> Photoflo is essentially low suds dishwashing
> liquid, O.K a slight oversimplification, but
> in a pinch you can use a drop or two of dish
> washing detergent, to lower the surface
> tension and aviod drying streaks. Tip that
> may come in handy one day for someone
> 
> If you have a small clean tray, say 4" x 5"
> or 6" x 8" put some water in there then add 3
> or 4 drops of photoflo. 
> 
> Let your slide soak for a while, the extra
> time can be beneficial as when the emulsion
> swells and gets softer dirt and other things
> attached are more likely to float off. Don't
> worry that the image will look to become
> cloudy, you haven't damaged anything, you can
> also dip a cotton ball into the
> water/photoflo solution and drag this across
> the slide, gently with the emulsion side. 
> 
> Once finished take it out and hang dry in a
> as dust free environment as possible. This
> can be anywhere, but if you want to eliminate
> all doubt, go into the bathroom, run the
> shower on full hot for a couple of minutes to
> really steam it up, then allow the steam to
> dissipate. This room will now be the most
> dust free in the house. When you do hang it,
> do it by a corner as it can help to eliminate
> water droplets forming along an entire edge.
> 
> If you want to wipe it with something,
> chamois moistened in the water/photoflo
> solution, but this step is best avoided,
> unless you're positive it's totally clean as
> you really do risk scratches with a soft emulsion
> 
> Small point Photoflo is colourless and
> odourless, so keep out of reach of children
> 
> Glenn
> 
> 
> > Steve Kale <stevekale@b...> wrote:
> > 
> > Ok my Lab was kind enough to give me some
> Photoflo.  I am not
> > familiar with
> > these chemicals and really don¹t want to
> mess this up so just to
> > check: 1.
> > Can I use Photoflo with Fuji Provia film? 
> 2.  How much Photoflo to
> > water
> > should I use?  3.  Is drip dry enough or do
> I wipe it with something?
> >  I
> > think the only dirt left on the slide is
> the smear left by the film
> > cleaner.
> > 
> > Thanks
> > 
> > Steve
> > 
> > 
> > From: "Glenn Barry"
> <glennrbarry@o...>
> > Reply-To:
> DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> > Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 07:02:38 +1000
> > To:
> <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> > Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Cleaning slide film
> > 
> > I worked in commercial/professional labs
> for over six years, film
> > cleaner to
> > begin with as it dehydrates the mould
> mildew, then a it's a good idea
> > to
> > wash in water with photoflo/ E-6 final
> rinse and hang dry. Most often
> > cleaning with film cleaners does leave
> streaks. Whenever any stuff
> > came in
> > that was dirty a quick rinse with photo flo
> diluted in water works a
> > treat,
> > or alternatively you can use cotton buds
> dipped in photoflo, wipe
> > very
> > gently though.
> > 
> > 
> > [Non-text portions of this message have
> been removed]
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > Please visit the Group Homepage to check
> the Files, and other
> > resources as they are often being updated.
> > 
> >
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> > 
> > If you wish to receive no emails or just a
> daily digest, or you wish
> > to unsubscribe, please edit your Membership
> preferences by visiting
> > this same page.
> > 
> > Please follow these basic guidelines:
> > - As threads develop, trim off excess
> portions of earlier messages to
> > keep them short.
> > - Good manners are required at all time. No
> personal attacks or
> > flames. Hostile, aggressive or
> argumentative users may be removed
> > from the membership without notice.
> > - Keep your posts and threads related to
> the group topic of digital
> > B&W printing. Users who persistently make
> off-topic posts may be
> > removed from the membership.
> > - By posting on this forum you agree to
> abide by the group rules and
> > guidelines, and to abide by the actions and
> decisions of the group
> > Owner and Moderators. See "Group Topic,
> Rules and Guidelines" in the
> > Files section:
> >
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/
> > 
> > BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES
> TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE
> > PRINT YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND
> AND AGREE THAT THE
> > "OWNER" AND "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE
> PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL
> > NOT BE LIABLE TO YOU FOR ANY DIRECT,
> INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL,
> > CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY DAMAGES,
> INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO,
> > DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE,
> DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE
> > LOSSES (EVEN IF THE  "OWNER" AND
> "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE
> > PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE
> POSSIBILITY OF SUCH
> > DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR
> THE INABILITY TO USE THE
> > DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii)
> UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR
> > ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA;
> (iii) STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT
> > OF ANY THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE
> PRINT YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv)
> > ANY OTHER MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL
> BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP.
> >  
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > 
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/
> > 
> >     
> DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> > 
> >

I find I use PWP 95% of the time. About the only time I use PS (7) is 
for the healing brush. I didn't realize that Adobe had taken up the MS 
model. Another good reason for not spending the bucks for CS.

You think Adobe is bad - wait till MS releases "Longhorn" the next 
windows incarnation. It looks like that the license will expire on a 
yearly basis and you will have to go out, download the updated OS and 
pay a license fee or else it will self destruct. That is you won't own 
it - you will only own use of it for a period and they you have to pay 
up or lose it.

I don't think I'm going to upgrade.

Truman

Paul Roark wrote:

>
> Don,
>
> >I have begun using Picture Window Pro instead of Photoshop, ...
>
> Good move.  I support PW as well as PS because both use the same curves.
> Although I have PS CS and like it, I think Adobe's latest licensing scheme
> puts them over the top in being pigs.  I don't appreciate having to 
> pay for
> another new, full-price copy for my laptop, and I won't do it.  I'm 
> back to
> using PS 6 to make curves anyway because of its greater compatibility.  I
> intend to always support some competition to PS in both curves and the
> workflow I use.
>
> > Starting from scratch, does it matter which printer to buy,
> >the C82 vs C84?
>
> The C82 is discontinued, but still available in a number of places.  
> It has
> a more linear output that matches my CRT better.  The C84 has a
> higher-contrast output that matches the LCD monitors in the house better.
> They seem to be the same otherwise.
>
> Paul
> www.PaulRoark.com
>
> For UT2 information, curves, and settings see:
> http://home1.gte.net/res09aij/
>

-- 

We imitate our masters only because we are not yet masters ourselves, 
and only

because in doing so we learn the truth about what cannot be imitated.

 



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> From: Don M [mailto:don@...]
>
> I have begun using Picture Window Pro instead of Photoshop, although I am
> taking a PS class so I'm learning it too.
> In PWP when I convert a color image to monochrome, I can apply a Wratten
> filter number to it, which I think is very nice.  And it seems to
> have very good controls for color and related manipulations.

That gives you some control, but you can get even more dramatic effects if
you go outside that box. For instance, PS's Channel Mixer lets you apply any
gain to each channel, including negative ones, which lets you darken blue
skies by setting the gains to something like red=150%, green=0%, blue=-50%.
I don't know PWP, but there may be ways of accomplishing this sort of thing
using curve adjustments.

--

Ciao,               Paul D. DeRocco
Paul                mailto:pderocco@...

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Truman Prevatt 
<tprevatt@m...> wrote:
> I find I use PWP 95% of the time. About the only time I use PS (7) 
is 
> for the healing brush. 

I find this intriguing.  When I had Photoshop 6 and PS7 came out 
everone raved about the healing tool, while I was happy using 16 bit 
in PW3 and the speck removal tool.  I skipped PS 7 but now I have PS8 
on a 2400 Athlon with 1.5 Gb DDR, the healing tool and clone tools 
are slow.  So I go to PW3, which is much faster, for speed and in my 
view, speck remover is better than the healing brush. Each to his 
own! <g>

Colin

Thanks to all!

> From: glennrbarry@...
> Reply-To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Thu, 01 Apr 2004 11:37:01 +1000
> To: "DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint @ yahoogroups .
> com"<DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: Re: Re: [Digital BW] Cleaning slide film
> 
> Photoflo is essentially low suds dishwashing
> liquid, O.K a slight oversimplification, but
> in a pinch you can use a drop or two of dish
> washing detergent, to lower the surface
> tension and aviod drying streaks. Tip that
> may come in handy one day for someone
> 
> If you have a small clean tray, say 4" x 5"
> or 6" x 8" put some water in there then add 3
> or 4 drops of photoflo.
> 
> Let your slide soak for a while, the extra
> time can be beneficial as when the emulsion
> swells and gets softer dirt and other things
> attached are more likely to float off. Don't
> worry that the image will look to become
> cloudy, you haven't damaged anything, you can
> also dip a cotton ball into the
> water/photoflo solution and drag this across
> the slide, gently with the emulsion side.
> 
> Once finished take it out and hang dry in a
> as dust free environment as possible. This
> can be anywhere, but if you want to eliminate
> all doubt, go into the bathroom, run the
> shower on full hot for a couple of minutes to
> really steam it up, then allow the steam to
> dissipate. This room will now be the most
> dust free in the house. When you do hang it,
> do it by a corner as it can help to eliminate
> water droplets forming along an entire edge.
> 
> If you want to wipe it with something,
> chamois moistened in the water/photoflo
> solution, but this step is best avoided,
> unless you're positive it's totally clean as
> you really do risk scratches with a soft emulsion
> 
> Small point Photoflo is colourless and
> odourless, so keep out of reach of children
> 
> Glenn
>

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Don M <don@m...> 
wrote:
> Very interesting.  Starting from scratch, does it matter which 
printer to 
> buy, the C82 vs C84?
> 
> -Don M
> 
> 

Don,

I'd recommend the C84. I read somewhere it has a higher dmax, but 
also the C84 will do true Borderless prints in 4x6, 5x7, 8x10, and 
letter. If you don't have a scanner and want a nice 1200x2400dpi one, 
you can also buy the CX5400 or CX6400 The 5400 has a C82 print engine 
and the 6400 has a C84 print engine as well as slots for your 
camera's memory cards. They are fine for scanning flat art, but won't 
do transparencies or negatives. The do make great copiers. 

Photography aside, the C84 was tested by PC Magazine as the least 
expensive way to print text of all the new printers this fall. I 
would think the ultratone inks would do a great job on text. With a 
cost of $10.95 vs Epson's 34.95 They would be even less expensive, 
though it seems a shame to use such beautiful ink for something as 
mundane as correspondence. 

I pound huge amounts of text out of my C84 and it does very well. 

bmaytum

Thanks.  You answered a thought I had about just using it for text and 
photos.  I plan to get a C84 and those inks.  The turnkey approach to it 
all sounds like a great way to get started.

We already have an Epson RX500 printer/scanner as our all-around household 
printer.  I can't quote its scanning resolution but it's pretty darn good 
for the money.  And it does 35mm slides and negatives.  Its 6-ink color 
prints are quite good too.   $249.

Obviously the money is in the ink, the way they are practically giving 
these printers away.  I hazard a guess that the manufacturers actually lose 
money on the initial printer sale.

-Don M

brianmaytum wrote:

>--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Don M <don@m...>
>wrote:
> > Very interesting.  Starting from scratch, does it matter which
>printer to
> > buy, the C82 vs C84?
> >
> > -Don M
> >
> >
>
>Don,
>
>I'd recommend the C84. I read somewhere it has a higher dmax, but
>also the C84 will do true Borderless prints in 4x6, 5x7, 8x10, and
>letter. If you don't have a scanner and want a nice 1200x2400dpi one,
>you can also buy the CX5400 or CX6400 The 5400 has a C82 print engine
>and the 6400 has a C84 print engine as well as slots for your
>camera's memory cards. They are fine for scanning flat art, but won't
>do transparencies or negatives. The do make great copiers.
>
>Photography aside, the C84 was tested by PC Magazine as the least
>expensive way to print text of all the new printers this fall. I
>would think the ultratone inks would do a great job on text. With a
>cost of $10.95 vs Epson's 34.95 They would be even less expensive,
>though it seems a shame to use such beautiful ink for something as
>mundane as correspondence.
>
>I pound huge amounts of text out of my C84 and it does very well.
>
>bmaytum
>
>
>
>Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other resources as 
>they are often being updated.
>
>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
>
>If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to 
>unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same 
>page.
>
>Please follow these basic guidelines:
>- As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep 
>them short.
>- Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames. 
>Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from the 
>membership without notice.
>- Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital B&W 
>printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be removed from 
>the membership.
>- By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and 
>guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group Owner 
>and Moderators. See "Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines" in the Files section:
>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/
>
>BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT 
>YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE "OWNER" AND 
>"MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE LIABLE TO 
>YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR 
>EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF 
>PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF 
>THE  "OWNER" AND "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE 
>BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE 
>USE OR THE INABILITY TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) 
>UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) 
>STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT 
>YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE 
>PRINT YAHOO GROUP.
>
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>

You're welcome
----- Original Message ----- 

From: "Steve Kale" <stevekale@...>
To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, April 02, 2004 3:09 AM
Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Cleaning slide film


> Thanks to all!
> 
>