RC Paper, Sprayed and Waxed Prints
2004-06-05 by Steve Kale
Thread
RC Paper, Sprayed and Waxed Prints
RC Paper, Sprayed and Waxed Prints
2004-06-05 by Steve Kale
I am curious as to how people who are using this method are then mounting and framing their prints. Given the thin nature of RC paper are you dry mounting the prints to, say, archival matt board before waxing? Presumably one must do any dry mounting before the wax? Is the end result good enough to not have to place the print behind glass? Steve
Re: RC Paper, Sprayed and Waxed Prints
2004-06-05 by Tom Andrews
Hi Steve, I got the idea for waxing Epson 10000 pigment prints on Epson Premium Luster (an RC) paper from a friend of mine who successfully creates and sells large (40x50s etc) Lightjet prints that he drymounts, waxes with Renaissance wax (obtained from Light Impressions), and frames and displays without glass. I think pigment ink on Luster probably has a somewhat more fragile surface than Lightjet prints. I haven't as yet displayed my waxed prints publicly. However, it is a very nice finish - fairly tough, very water resistant, easy to clean, and almost invisible. Probably fine for glassless framing. Yes, you would want to do the drymounting before waxing. If you are framing without glass, you probably will want to mount the print on something sturdier than matt board, something like gatorfoam or dibond. I also found that a few coats of Premier Art Print Shield spray made the surface tough enough to prevent scuffing during the wax application and buffing and made it easier to apply the wax . Tom Andrews http://www.wildlandart.com > I am curious as to how people who are using this method are then mounting and framing their prints. Given the thin nature of RC paper are you dry mounting the prints to, say, archival matt board before waxing? Presumably one must do any dry mounting before the wax? Is the end result good enough to not have to place the print behind glass? > > Steve
Re: [Digital BW] Re: RC Paper, Sprayed and Waxed Prints
2004-06-05 by Steve Kale
Tom Thanks a lot. I have not yet received my Renaissance Wax (prior to finding out that it is actually made in England I ordered it in the US and it will arrive via a friend next week). I have been spraying my prints with Lyson Print Guard (probably the same thing as the Premier Art product) essentially to fix the Eboni and other MIS inks to the RC paper. I am a real novice when it comes to framing. To date I have relied on my local framer and given him prints on HPR which I believe he then simply hinges to archival matt board (the same matt board used for the front matt. I can see from the price list of my local digital lab that they can mount to thick card, 5mm foam, 10mm foam, 3mm foamex etc. I am not familiar with foamex. If a print is dry mounted to these materials is it considered archival? (Also I have to wait until Monday to confirm that their mounting is ³dry mounting².) I assume the thicker mounting makes it sturdier in a prefabricated frame. BTW does your friend still place a matt in front of the image (without the glass)? Regards Steve
Show quoted textHide quoted text
From: "Tom Andrews" <tandrews@...> Reply-To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com Date: Sat, 05 Jun 2004 15:31:35 -0000 To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Digital BW] Re: RC Paper, Sprayed and Waxed Prints Hi Steve, I got the idea for waxing Epson 10000 pigment prints on Epson Premium Luster (an RC) paper from a friend of mine who successfully creates and sells large (40x50s etc) Lightjet prints that he drymounts, waxes with Renaissance wax (obtained from Light Impressions), and frames and displays without glass. I think pigment ink on Luster probably has a somewhat more fragile surface than Lightjet prints. I haven't as yet displayed my waxed prints publicly. However, it is a very nice finish - fairly tough, very water resistant, easy to clean, and almost invisible. Probably fine for glassless framing. Yes, you would want to do the drymounting before waxing. If you are framing without glass, you probably will want to mount the print on something sturdier than matt board, something like gatorfoam or dibond. I also found that a few coats of Premier Art Print Shield spray made the surface tough enough to prevent scuffing during the wax application and buffing and made it easier to apply the wax . Tom Andrews http://www.wildlandart.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
RE: [Digital BW] Re: RC Paper, Sprayed and Waxed Prints
2004-06-06 by Ken Carney
Steve: I haven't followed all the messages in this thread, but: Dry mounting
involves using a hot press (Seal) and mounting tissue. It is customarily
done by mounting the print on museum board. I have no idea what would
happen if a waxed print was dry mounted, but I imagine it would not come to
a good end. Nor do I know what would happen if a print was dry-mounted onto
foam board, though I suspect it wouldn't work. I dry-mount inkjet prints
onto museum board (100% cotton rag like Westminster, or Alpha Art Care, or
Exeter too). This is done with low-temp Seal tissue and layers of museum
board over the print. After it comes out of the press, you must flex the
board to see that the tissue has correctly bound the print.
I have used Renaissance wax occasionally for silver prints on Portriga or
Oriental silver (It is also a great wax for vintage guitars). RC prints in
the darkroom are awful, but maybe I have something to learn with inkjet. I
can't imagine framing a print without glazing (plexi or lucite in my case,
since glass is usually tinted and can ruin the print if it falls off the
wall or is damaged while shipping...it can happen). For one thing, bugs of
one sort or another find museum board a delicacy, so the frame must be
sealed.
One other observation: Dry mounting is an artistic decision, IMHO. I feel
it enhances the image, with a window over-matte. I have silver and platinum
prints (mine) that have been dry-mounted, as well as inkjet, for many years
and see no signs of problems. I have a friend with vintage prints, such as
an AA Moonrise c. 1941 that is dry-mounted, with no particular problems, at
least due to the dry mounting. My only suggestion is that I would never
entrust dry-mounting to a framer. That is the one place where everything
can go wrong, and I do it myself...like packing your own parachute. OTOH,
you can get archival mounting corners from Light Impressions, print with
wide salon borders so the corners are hidden in a window matte, and never
worry about archival-ness. That is what I do with the few prints I have
from famous photographers (unlike mine). Hope this helps a little.
Regards,
--Ken Carney
www.kencarney.com Show quoted textHide quoted text
> -----Original Message----- > From: Steve Kale [mailto:stevekale@...] > Sent: Saturday, June 05, 2004 1:13 PM > To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Re: RC Paper, Sprayed and Waxed Prints > > > Tom > > Thanks a lot. I have not yet received my Renaissance Wax > (prior to finding out that it is actually made in England I > ordered it in the US and it will arrive via a friend next > week). I have been spraying my prints with Lyson Print Guard > (probably the same thing as the Premier Art product) > essentially to fix the Eboni and other MIS inks to the RC > paper. I am a real novice when it comes to framing. To date > I have relied on my local framer and given him prints on HPR > which I believe he then simply hinges to archival matt board > (the same matt board used for the front matt. I can see from > the price list of my local digital lab that they can mount to > thick card, 5mm foam, 10mm foam, 3mm foamex etc. I am not > familiar with foamex. If a print is dry mounted to these > materials is it considered archival? (Also I have to wait > until Monday to confirm that their mounting is ³dry > mounting².) I assume the thicker mounting makes it sturdier > in a prefabricated frame. BTW does your friend still place a > matt in front of the image (without the glass)? > > Regards > > Steve
Re: [Digital BW] Re: RC Paper, Sprayed and Waxed Prints
2004-06-06 by Steve Kale
Please not the bug conversation again! Thanks. I had raised the question as to whether RC prints were being dry mounted onto museum board (I had loosely used the term archival matt board) and Tom had suggested that they be mounted on something sturdier eg gatorfoam or dibond materials that I am not familiar with. The materials I had noted (eg card, foam, foamex, aluminium, MDF) came from the service listing of my digital lab (I have to wait til Monday to speak with them). As I don¹t have a dry-mount press (and there are only so many things one can focus on learning at one time) I would outsource any dry mounting to my digital lab. With no darkroom experience I am not familiar with ³RC prints in the darkroom² or ³silver prints² per se. I am simply trying to get the best out of printing to Epson Premium Semigloss with my existing printer setup. When you say salon borders I assume you simply mean the unprinted part of the print sheet. I thought the issue with RC paper was that it was thin and hence was best affixed to a thicker backing for framing so that it would not buckle over time. Wouldn¹t a print on RC paper be to wobbly to simply affix to museum board at the four corners? Given all the affects of dry mounting are hidden (apart from subsequent weakening rigidity effects that may be noticed in a non-dry mounted image) I am not sure what aesthetic benefits you feel are obtained by dry mounting. Tom had mentioned that he had a friend who successfully sells large Lightjet prints dry mounted, waxed and displayed without glass. As I too have a strong preference for not putting prints behind glazing (plexi or otherwise) due to aesthetic reasons (the lower cost is a significant additional benefit) I was interested in this. As I also like the aesthetics of a window over-matt (maybe this is the aesthetic you were referring to) I was interested to know whether Tom¹s friend placed any form of matting in front of the print. Cheers Steve
Show quoted textHide quoted text
From: "Ken Carney" <kcarney1@cox.net>
Reply-To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Date: Sat, 5 Jun 2004 20:42:09 -0500
To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: RE: [Digital BW] Re: RC Paper, Sprayed and Waxed Prints
Steve: I haven't followed all the messages in this thread, but: Dry mounting
involves using a hot press (Seal) and mounting tissue. It is customarily
done by mounting the print on museum board. I have no idea what would
happen if a waxed print was dry mounted, but I imagine it would not come to
a good end. Nor do I know what would happen if a print was dry-mounted onto
foam board, though I suspect it wouldn't work. I dry-mount inkjet prints
onto museum board (100% cotton rag like Westminster, or Alpha Art Care, or
Exeter too). This is done with low-temp Seal tissue and layers of museum
board over the print. After it comes out of the press, you must flex the
board to see that the tissue has correctly bound the print.
I have used Renaissance wax occasionally for silver prints on Portriga or
Oriental silver (It is also a great wax for vintage guitars). RC prints in
the darkroom are awful, but maybe I have something to learn with inkjet. I
can't imagine framing a print without glazing (plexi or lucite in my case,
since glass is usually tinted and can ruin the print if it falls off the
wall or is damaged while shipping...it can happen). For one thing, bugs of
one sort or another find museum board a delicacy, so the frame must be
sealed.
One other observation: Dry mounting is an artistic decision, IMHO. I feel
it enhances the image, with a window over-matte. I have silver and platinum
prints (mine) that have been dry-mounted, as well as inkjet, for many years
and see no signs of problems. I have a friend with vintage prints, such as
an AA Moonrise c. 1941 that is dry-mounted, with no particular problems, at
least due to the dry mounting. My only suggestion is that I would never
entrust dry-mounting to a framer. That is the one place where everything
can go wrong, and I do it myself...like packing your own parachute. OTOH,
you can get archival mounting corners from Light Impressions, print with
wide salon borders so the corners are hidden in a window matte, and never
worry about archival-ness. That is what I do with the few prints I have
from famous photographers (unlike mine). Hope this helps a little.
Regards,
--Ken Carney
www.kencarney.com
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Steve Kale [mailto:stevekale@...]
> Sent: Saturday, June 05, 2004 1:13 PM
> To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Re: RC Paper, Sprayed and Waxed Prints
>
>
> Tom
>
> Thanks a lot. I have not yet received my Renaissance Wax
> (prior to finding out that it is actually made in England I
> ordered it in the US and it will arrive via a friend next
> week). I have been spraying my prints with Lyson Print Guard
> (probably the same thing as the Premier Art product)
> essentially to fix the Eboni and other MIS inks to the RC
> paper. I am a real novice when it comes to framing. To date
> I have relied on my local framer and given him prints on HPR
> which I believe he then simply hinges to archival matt board
> (the same matt board used for the front matt. I can see from
> the price list of my local digital lab that they can mount to
> thick card, 5mm foam, 10mm foam, 3mm foamex etc. I am not
> familiar with foamex. If a print is dry mounted to these
> materials is it considered archival? (Also I have to wait
> until Monday to confirm that their mounting is ³dry
> mounting².) I assume the thicker mounting makes it sturdier
> in a prefabricated frame. BTW does your friend still place a
> matt in front of the image (without the glass)?
>
> Regards
>
> Steve
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]RE: [Digital BW] Re: RC Paper, Sprayed and Waxed Prints
2004-06-06 by Ken Carney
> When you say salon borders I assume you simply mean the > unprinted part of the print sheet. Yes - "salon" indicating wide borders. I thought the issue with RC paper was that it was thin and hence was best affixed to a > thicker backing for framing so that it would not buckle over > time. Wouldn¹t a print on RC paper be to wobbly to simply > affix to museum board at the four corners? RC lies pretty flat, especially held by an over-matte. I was just printing some family snapshots on Ilford Galerie Smooth Gloss and it looks as if it would lie flat -- of course, it's only letter size. It may depend on how large you're printing. Incidentally, it is pretty common for photographs to be mounted to the backing board with mounting corners, since there is a lot of thought on the part of conservators that dry-mounting compromises the archival qualities of the print. I don't get that many calls from museums for my prints (g), so I just mount them the way I think they look best. >Given all the affects of dry mounting are hidden (apart from subsequent > weakening rigidity effects that may be noticed in a non-dry > mounted image) I am not sure what aesthetic benefits you feel > are obtained by dry mounting. With dry-mounting, you trim the borders off the print so that only the image area remains to be dry mounted on the matt board. This is done by "tacking" the mount tissue onto the back of the print, then trimming the borders and underlying tissue off. The print/tissue is then "tacked" onto the mounting board (with a hot iron between the print corners and underlying tissue) before going into the press. In addition to the print being perfectly flat, the area around the print, showing through the window matt, is the same type board as the window matt. It is a nice and neat presentation. There is another school of thought. That is that it is the photo paper margins that should show through the window matt, the thought being that the eye will make a transition from the white over-matt to the paper base to the image itself. Incidentally, you might check the Light Impressions catalog. I see there are some cold-mount processes available, but I don't know anything about them. Dry mounting as described above is tedious and must be done with great care -- I imagine a framer would charge a lot for it.
Re: RC Paper, Sprayed and Waxed Prints
2004-06-07 by Tom Andrews
Hi Steve, > Tom had suggested that they be mounted on something sturdier eg > gatorfoam or dibond - materials that I am not familiar with. The materials > I had noted (eg card, foam, foamex, aluminium, MDF) came from the service > listing of my digital lab (I have to wait til Monday to speak with them). Dibond is a relatively expensive aluminum product - very archival. Gatorfoam is a couple of very hard rigid surfaces with foam inbetween - probably relatively archival. > Wouldn't a print on RC paper be to wobbly to simply affix > to museum board at the four corners? I find that 12x15 prints lie quite flat with hinge mounting and overmats. However, some 20x25s exhibit quite a bit of waviness when hinge mounted - not at first, but after hanging for awhile. Drymounting eliminates this and the print is very flat - Drymounting is not a preferred archival museum mounting method, which is why I have been hinge mounting up til now. However, as I go to larger prints (32x40) drymounting (or cold press mounting) becomes necessary. > Tom had mentioned that he had a friend who successfully sells large Lightjet > prints dry mounted, waxed and displayed without glass. I was > interested to know whether Tom's friend placed any form of matting in front > of the print. My friend doesn't use any matting. His cold press mounted prints on gatorfoam are put directly in float frames so that a very small gap (1/8 inch or so) occurs between the edge of the print and the side of the frame. This method is similar to the way framed paintings on stretcher bars are often displayed. I am about to have few large prints done this way. For now I will have the mounting and trimming and frame building done by others, but will do the frame assemby myself. Tom Andrews http://www.wildlandart.com
Re: [Digital BW] Re: RC Paper, Sprayed and Waxed Prints
2004-07-17 by Steve Kale
Ken Is the low-temp Seal tissue archival? At what temperature is the press set at for this tissue (how low is low)? My local framer charges a fortune for archival (vs ordinary) tissue. Steve
Show quoted textHide quoted text
From: "Ken Carney" <kcarney1@...> Steve: I haven't followed all the messages in this thread, but: Dry mounting involves using a hot press (Seal) and mounting tissue. It is customarily done by mounting the print on museum board. I have no idea what would happen if a waxed print was dry mounted, but I imagine it would not come to a good end. Nor do I know what would happen if a print was dry-mounted onto foam board, though I suspect it wouldn't work. I dry-mount inkjet prints onto museum board (100% cotton rag like Westminster, or Alpha Art Care, or Exeter too). This is done with low-temp Seal tissue and layers of museum board over the print. After it comes out of the press, you must flex the board to see that the tissue has correctly bound the print. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
RE: [Digital BW] Re: RC Paper, Sprayed and Waxed Prints
2004-07-17 by Ken Carney
Steve: So far as anyone knows, it is archival. The product I'm referring to is Seal ColorMount Plus, catalog number 604. I hadn't noticed it before, but the particular package I pulled out says "specially formulated for RC photo mounting". The directions state a recommended temp range of 200F, 175F minimum. I use around 200 according to the gauge on the press. However, I should point out that I have a sheet of 100% rag matt board below and above the matt/print to be dry-mounted. This probably results in a little lower temperature. You let the press warm up with the rag board sheets in it to be completely sure there is no moisture in the boards, else problems. I'm not sure why your framer is so wound up over archival tissue. Seems the last batch I bought was about $75US for 100 sheets of 11x14, or about 75c per sheet. The next size up is 16x20 which is about double the price. --Ken
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> -----Original Message----- > From: Steve Kale [mailto:stevekale@...] > Sent: Saturday, July 17, 2004 7:23 AM > To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Re: RC Paper, Sprayed and Waxed Prints > > Ken > > Is the low-temp Seal tissue archival? At what temperature is > the press set at for this tissue (how low is low)? My local > framer charges a fortune for archival (vs ordinary) tissue. > > Steve > > > From: "Ken Carney" <kcarney1@...> > > Steve: I haven't followed all the messages in this thread, > but: Dry mounting involves using a hot press (Seal) and > mounting tissue. It is customarily done by mounting the > print on museum board. I have no idea what would happen if a > waxed print was dry mounted, but I imagine it would not come > to a good end. Nor do I know what would happen if a print > was dry-mounted onto foam board, though I suspect it wouldn't > work. I dry-mount inkjet prints onto museum board (100% > cotton rag like Westminster, or Alpha Art Care, or Exeter > too). This is done with low-temp Seal tissue and layers of > museum board over the print. After it comes out of the > press, you must flex the board to see that the tissue has > correctly bound the print. > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > --------------------~--> Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. > Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. > Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! > http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/ucIolB/TM > -------------------------------------------------------------- > ------~-> > > Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other > resources as they are often being updated. > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint > > If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or > you wish to unsubscribe, please edit your Membership > preferences by visiting this same page. > > Please follow these basic guidelines: > - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier > messages to keep them short. > - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks > or flames. Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be > removed from the membership without notice. > - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of > digital B&W printing. Users who persistently make off-topic > posts may be removed from the membership. > - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group > rules and guidelines, and to abide by the actions and > decisions of the group Owner and Moderators. See Group > Topic, Rules and Guidelines in the Files section: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/ > > BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL > BW, THE PRINT YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE > THAT THE OWNER AND MODERATORS OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT > YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE LIABLE TO YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, > INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY > DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF > PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN > IF THE OWNER AND MODERATORS OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT > YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH > DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY TO USE > THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED > ACCESS TO OR ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) > STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, > THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER MATTER RELATING TO > THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP. > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > >
Re: [Digital BW] Re: RC Paper, Sprayed and Waxed Prints
2004-07-17 by Steve Kale
Thanks. They quoted me around £20 (USD36) for a 12x18 just for the tissue..... I am sick of getting ripped of here on almost everything....For example, for the cost of one Epson cartridge (2100) here I can buy a 4oz bottle for my CFS from MIS.
Show quoted textHide quoted text
From: "Ken Carney" <kcarney1@...> Reply-To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com Date: Sat, 17 Jul 2004 16:07:22 -0500 To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [Digital BW] Re: RC Paper, Sprayed and Waxed Prints Steve: So far as anyone knows, it is archival. The product I'm referring to is Seal ColorMount Plus, catalog number 604. I hadn't noticed it before, but the particular package I pulled out says "specially formulated for RC photo mounting". The directions state a recommended temp range of 200F, 175F minimum. I use around 200 according to the gauge on the press. However, I should point out that I have a sheet of 100% rag matt board below and above the matt/print to be dry-mounted. This probably results in a little lower temperature. You let the press warm up with the rag board sheets in it to be completely sure there is no moisture in the boards, else problems. I'm not sure why your framer is so wound up over archival tissue. Seems the last batch I bought was about $75US for 100 sheets of 11x14, or about 75c per sheet. The next size up is 16x20 which is about double the price. --Ken [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
RE: [Digital BW] Re: RC Paper, Sprayed and Waxed Prints
2004-07-18 by Ken Carney
> Thanks. They quoted me around £20 (USD36) for a 12x18 just > for the tissue..... Ouch!! I would say either (a) it's time for a new framer or (b) the translation is that they don't want to do the work. Steve, you can probably pick up a used Seal press for not much. Years ago I picked up my 16x20 press (still the current model) in excellent condition for $250, mainly because the local stores didn't know what to do with it. If you have patience, you can cut good matts with the Logan economy cutter (about $100USD). Plus you will want to spring a few $ for Ansel's book "The Print", which has a complete guide to dry-mounting. I finally had to outsource my framing due to time constraints, and here the framer uses the Light Impressions mounting corners (dry-mounting is a little tricky and I still don't want anyone else to do it). The corners are very good if you have a stiff paper that doesn't "wave". As I may have mentioned, dry-mounting is basically an artistic decision, one that will drive the conservators nuts, but is my preference if I have time because only the image area is mounted. Hope this helps a little. http://www.lightimpressionsdirect.com/servlet/OnlineShopping?Dsp=20000&PCR=3 0000:250000:252000:252100&R=8225 http://www.lightimpressionsdirect.com/servlet/OnlineShopping?Dsp=20000&PCR=3 0000:250000:252000:252500&R=6981 http://www.lightimpressionsdirect.com/servlet/OnlineShopping?DSP=50100&PCR=3 0000:230000:238000:238100:238110&IID=20427&R=5844 http://www.lightimpressionsdirect.com/servlet/OnlineShopping?Dsp=20200&PCR=3 0000:220000:221000:221200&R=2162