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UT2 with only one blue ink and both Photo and Ebony blacks in 1290 ?

UT2 with only one blue ink and both Photo and Ebony blacks in 1290 ?

2004-06-22 by stephane_bosman

I currently use a 1290 with the Cone Piezotone ink set driven by QTR. It works beautifully, 
but I miss the tonality control and the ability to print on both glossy and matte papers.

The problem is the 1290 has only 6 ink positions, so it is not possible to have the full UT2 
set with both Photo Black and Ebony Black, as is possible in 2100.

In printrs with 4 ink positions, only black, 2 shades of grey and blue toner is used.

My idea would be to use only the blue toner, not the light blue, and to use both black inks. 
It is mechanically possible with the CFS.

My reasonning is that with QTR I should be able to control the ink usage so that I could 
create profiles for matte papers and others for matte papers.

Is full tonality control possible with only the blue toner ? Or would the light blue be a 
better option ?

RE: [Digital BW] UT2 with only one blue ink and both Photo and Ebony blacks in 1290 ?

2004-06-22 by Paul Roark

>The problem is the 1290 has only 6 ink positions, so it is not possible to
>have the full UT2 set with both Photo Black and Ebony Black, as is possible
>in 2100.

The 1280 and 1290 with the standard UT2 setup can print on glossy or matte
paper when Eboni is installed.  With 2 dark grays, the dmax is about 5% less
than the Photo K.  So, I don't think the Photo k is worth messing with.  On
a paper like Ilford, with its great dmax, you'll probably never see the
difference.

> My idea would be to use only the blue toner, not the light blue, ...
>Is full tonality control possible with only the blue toner? Or would the
>light blue be a better option?

The UT2 cool gray inks are not the ones to use for this.  Use the single UT1
toner (M position in hextones, Y position in UT1 quadtones).  On glossy
paper up close, you might see some dots.

I think Roy uses a one-toner setup on his 7500 and gets very good results on
matte paper.

Good luck.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com 

For UT2 & UT7 information, curves, and settings see:
http://home1.gte.net/res09aij/

Re: [Digital BW] UT2 with only one blue ink and both Photo and Ebony blacks in 1290 ?

2004-06-22 by stephane_bosman

Thanks for the fast answer, Paul.

I'm not sure I fully understand the second part. Do you mean I would be bet=
ter off with a 
UT1 set instead of a UT2 ?

Stéphane


--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Roark" <paul.roa=
rk@v...> 
wrote:
> >The problem is the 1290 has only 6 ink positions, so it is not possible =
to
> >have the full UT2 set with both Photo Black and Ebony Black, as is possi=
ble
> >in 2100.
> 
> The 1280 and 1290 with the standard UT2 setup can print on glossy or matt=
e
> paper when Eboni is installed.  With 2 dark grays, the dmax is about 5% l=
ess
> than the Photo K.  So, I don't think the Photo k is worth messing with.  =
On
> a paper like Ilford, with its great dmax, you'll probably never see the
> difference.
> 
> > My idea would be to use only the blue toner, not the light blue, ...
> >Is full tonality control possible with only the blue toner? Or would the=

> >light blue be a better option?
> 
> The UT2 cool gray inks are not the ones to use for this.  Use the single =
UT1
> toner (M position in hextones, Y position in UT1 quadtones).  On glossy
> paper up close, you might see some dots.
> 
> I think Roy uses a one-toner setup on his 7500 and gets very good results=
 on
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> matte paper.
> 
> Good luck.
> 
> Paul
> www.PaulRoark.com 
> 
> For UT2 & UT7 information, curves, and settings see:
> http://home1.gte.net/res09aij/

RE: [Digital BW] UT2 with only one blue ink and both Photo and Ebony blacks in 1290 ?

2004-06-22 by Paul Roark

Stéphane,

>I'm not sure I fully understand the second part. 
>Do you mean I would be better off with a UT1 set instead of a UT2?

No, I like the UT2 much better than the UT1 inkset.  However, if you are
going to make a custom inkset with just one toner, then the UT1 quad toner
is the one that was made just for that purpose.  It is as light and weak
(low gamut) as possible and still be able to neutralize the 90% patch on
most papers.  So, the UT1 quad toner would show up the least in the
highlights, I think, and still be able to cool down the warm carbon inks in
the shadows.

Frankly, I'd recommend you just go with the standard UT2 inkset.

Hope this helps.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com 

For UT2 & UT7 information, curves, and settings see:
http://home1.gte.net/res09aij/

_____________________


--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Roark" <paul.roa=

rk@v...> 
wrote:
> >The problem is the 1290 has only 6 ink positions, so it is not possible =

to
> >have the full UT2 set with both Photo Black and Ebony Black, as is possi=

ble
> >in 2100.
> 
> The 1280 and 1290 with the standard UT2 setup can print on glossy or matt=

e
> paper when Eboni is installed.  With 2 dark grays, the dmax is about 5% l=

ess
> than the Photo K.  So, I don't think the Photo k is worth messing with.  =

On
> a paper like Ilford, with its great dmax, you'll probably never see the
> difference.
> 
> > My idea would be to use only the blue toner, not the light blue, ...
> >Is full tonality control possible with only the blue toner? Or would the=


> >light blue be a better option?
> 
> The UT2 cool gray inks are not the ones to use for this.  Use the single =

UT1
> toner (M position in hextones, Y position in UT1 quadtones).  On glossy
> paper up close, you might see some dots.
> 
> I think Roy uses a one-toner setup on his 7500 and gets very good results=

 on
> matte paper.
> 
> Good luck.
> 
> Paul
> www.PaulRoark.com 
> 
> For UT2 & UT7 information, curves, and settings see:
> http://home1.gte.net/res09aij/




Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other resources as
they are often being updated.

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Re: [Digital BW] UT2 with only one blue ink and both Photo and Ebony blacks in 1290 ?

2004-06-23 by stephane_bosman

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Roark" <paul.roa=
rk@v...> 
wrote:
> Stéphane,
> 
> >I'm not sure I fully understand the second part. 
> >Do you mean I would be better off with a UT1 set instead of a UT2?
Thanks a lot, Paul. I've orderd a UT2 set from MIS. I was aiming at getting=
 tonality control 
AND usage of both matte and semi glossy, actually Ilforg Smooth Pearl.

Tonality gets priority and I'll give a shot at Smooth Pearl with just the d=
ark grey.

Again, thanks for your help.

Stéphane


> 
> No, I like the UT2 much better than the UT1 inkset.  However, if you are
> going to make a custom inkset with just one toner, then the UT1 quad tone=
r
> is the one that was made just for that purpose.  It is as light and weak
> (low gamut) as possible and still be able to neutralize the 90% patch on
> most papers.  So, the UT1 quad toner would show up the least in the
> highlights, I think, and still be able to cool down the warm carbon inks =
in
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> the shadows.
> 
> Frankly, I'd recommend you just go with the standard UT2 inkset.
> 
> Hope this helps.
> 
> Paul
> www.PaulRoark.com 
> 
> For UT2 & UT7 information, curves, and settings see:
> http://home1.gte.net/res09aij/
>

Re: [Digital BW] UT2 with only one blue ink and both Photo and Ebony blacks in 1290 ?

2004-06-23 by stephane_bosman

Paul,

" With 2 dark grays, the dmax is about 5% less than the Photo K."

What do you mean, 2 dark greys ? 

Regards,

Stéphane



--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Roark" <paul.roa=
rk@v...> 
wrote:
> >The problem is the 1290 has only 6 ink positions, so it is not possible =
to
> >have the full UT2 set with both Photo Black and Ebony Black, as is possi=
ble
> >in 2100.
> 
> The 1280 and 1290 with the standard UT2 setup can print on glossy or matt=
e
> paper when Eboni is installed.  With 2 dark grays, the dmax is about 5% l=
ess
> than the Photo K.  So, I don't think the Photo k is worth messing with.  =
On
> a paper like Ilford, with its great dmax, you'll probably never see the
> difference.
> 
> > My idea would be to use only the blue toner, not the light blue, ...
> >Is full tonality control possible with only the blue toner? Or would the=

> >light blue be a better option?
> 
> The UT2 cool gray inks are not the ones to use for this.  Use the single =
UT1
> toner (M position in hextones, Y position in UT1 quadtones).  On glossy
> paper up close, you might see some dots.
> 
> I think Roy uses a one-toner setup on his 7500 and gets very good results=
 on
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> matte paper.
> 
> Good luck.
> 
> Paul
> www.PaulRoark.com 
> 
> For UT2 & UT7 information, curves, and settings see:
> http://home1.gte.net/res09aij/

RE: [Digital BW] UT2 with only one blue ink and both Photo and Ebony blacks in 1290 ?

2004-06-23 by Paul Roark

Stéphane,

>" With 2 dark grays, the dmax is about 5% less than the Photo K."

>What do you mean, 2 dark greys? 

The UT2 inkset does not use a light cool toner.  Rather, it has dark and
lighter cool inks that are about the same density as the warm grays.  In
fact, the cool gray is a bit darker than the warm gray.  To get the best
dmax both of these inks are pulled to essentially full on.  The yellow
position ink is turned off.  So, the black is a combination of the warm and
cool dark gray inks.  Not only does this give a better dmax than either one
of the gray inks, but is also allows tone control of even the black.  As
such, I prefer a cool 100% black.  It seems even deeper than the warm black.

By the way, the Ilford Smooth Pearl is, in my opinion, about the best
looking glossy paper there is, especially when sprayed with PremierArt Print
Shield or Lyson Print Guard.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com 

For UT2 & UT7 information, curves, and settings see:
http://home1.gte.net/res09aij/
___________________________


--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Roark" <paul.roa=

rk@v...> 
wrote:
> >The problem is the 1290 has only 6 ink positions, so it is not possible =

to
> >have the full UT2 set with both Photo Black and Ebony Black, as is possi=

ble
> >in 2100.
> 
> The 1280 and 1290 with the standard UT2 setup can print on glossy or matt=

e
> paper when Eboni is installed.  With 2 dark grays, the dmax is about 5% l=

ess
> than the Photo K.  So, I don't think the Photo k is worth messing with.  =

On
> a paper like Ilford, with its great dmax, you'll probably never see the
> difference.
> 
> > My idea would be to use only the blue toner, not the light blue, ...
> >Is full tonality control possible with only the blue toner? Or would the=


> >light blue be a better option?
> 
> The UT2 cool gray inks are not the ones to use for this.  Use the single =

UT1
> toner (M position in hextones, Y position in UT1 quadtones).  On glossy
> paper up close, you might see some dots.
> 
> I think Roy uses a one-toner setup on his 7500 and gets very good results=

 on
> matte paper.
> 
> Good luck.
> 
> Paul
> www.PaulRoark.com 
> 
> For UT2 & UT7 information, curves, and settings see:
> http://home1.gte.net/res09aij/




Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other resources as
they are often being updated.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint

If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to
unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same
page.

Please follow these basic guidelines:
- As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep
them short.
- Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames.
Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from the
membership without notice.
- Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital B&W
printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be removed from
the membership.
- By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and
guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group Owner and
Moderators. See “Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines” in the Files section:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/

BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT
YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE “OWNER” AND
“MODERATORS” OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE LIABLE TO YOU
FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY
DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS,
GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE  “OWNER” AND
“MODERATORS” OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE
POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY
TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR
ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY
THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER
MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP.
 
Yahoo! Groups Links

Re: [Digital BW] UT2 with only one blue ink and both Photo and Ebony blacks in 1290 ?

2004-06-23 by stephane_bosman

Paul,

Many thanks. This is now clear. Can't wait to get the inks :)

Best regards,

Stéphane

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Roark" <paul.roa=
rk@v...> 
wrote:
> Stéphane,
> 
> >" With 2 dark grays, the dmax is about 5% less than the Photo K."
> 
> >What do you mean, 2 dark greys? 
> 
> The UT2 inkset does not use a light cool toner.  Rather, it has dark and
> lighter cool inks that are about the same density as the warm grays.  In
> fact, the cool gray is a bit darker than the warm gray.  To get the best
> dmax both of these inks are pulled to essentially full on.  The yellow
> position ink is turned off.  So, the black is a combination of the warm a=
nd
> cool dark gray inks.  Not only does this give a better dmax than either o=
ne
> of the gray inks, but is also allows tone control of even the black.  As
> such, I prefer a cool 100% black.  It seems even deeper than the warm bla=
ck.
> 
> By the way, the Ilford Smooth Pearl is, in my opinion, about the best
> looking glossy paper there is, especially when sprayed with PremierArt Pr=
int
> Shield or Lyson Print Guard.
> 
> Paul
> www.PaulRoark.com 
> 
> For UT2 & UT7 information, curves, and settings see:
> http://home1.gte.net/res09aij/
> ___________________________
> 
> 
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Roark" <paul.r=
oa=
> 
> rk@v...> 
> wrote:
> > >The problem is the 1290 has only 6 ink positions, so it is not possibl=
e =
> 
> to
> > >have the full UT2 set with both Photo Black and Ebony Black, as is pos=
si=
> 
> ble
> > >in 2100.
> > 
> > The 1280 and 1290 with the standard UT2 setup can print on glossy or ma=
tt=
> 
> e
> > paper when Eboni is installed.  With 2 dark grays, the dmax is about 5%=
 l=
> 
> ess
> > than the Photo K.  So, I don't think the Photo k is worth messing with.=
  =
> 
> On
> > a paper like Ilford, with its great dmax, you'll probably never see the=

> > difference.
> > 
> > > My idea would be to use only the blue toner, not the light blue, ...
> > >Is full tonality control possible with only the blue toner? Or would t=
he=
> 
> 
> > >light blue be a better option?
> > 
> > The UT2 cool gray inks are not the ones to use for this.  Use the singl=
e =
> 
> UT1
> > toner (M position in hextones, Y position in UT1 quadtones).  On glossy=

> > paper up close, you might see some dots.
> > 
> > I think Roy uses a one-toner setup on his 7500 and gets very good resul=
ts=
> 
>  on
> > matte paper.
> > 
> > Good luck.
> > 
> > Paul
> > www.PaulRoark.com 
> > 
> > For UT2 & UT7 information, curves, and settings see:
> > http://home1.gte.net/res09aij/
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other resources a=
s
> they are often being updated.
> 
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> 
> If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to
> unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this sam=
e
> page.
> 
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to kee=
p
> them short.
> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames.
> Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from the
> membership without notice.
> - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital B&W
> printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be removed from=

> the membership.
> - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and
> guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group Owner =
and
> Moderators. See "Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines" in the Files section:=

> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/
> 
> BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT
> YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE "OWNER" AND
> "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE LIABLE TO =

YOU
> FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY=

> DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS,
> GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE  "OWNER" AND
> "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF TH=
E
> POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILIT=
Y
> TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO=
 OR
> ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF =

ANY
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER
> MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP.
>  
> Yahoo! Groups Links

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