Digital BW, The Print

At the risk of asking something that's been covered endlessly on this 
forum....

I'm interested in bulk inks (is that what they're called?) for my 
2200 to save on cost.  I'm looking for standard inks that will match, 
as closely as possible, the OEM inks provided by Epson.  I print both 
color and b&w, and my printer already has custom profiles based on 
the Epson inks.

Rather than asking everyone to repeat what's already been covered, I 
wondered if someone could point me to a link that discusses and/or 
compares my various options.

Robert Ades

I think the term you are looking for is a Continuous Flow System.  I use the one from MIS 
which has their equivalent of the Epson Ultrchrome inks with one exception the black or K 
ink.  The standard ink in the MIS CFS is their Universal black which is designed to work on 
both matt (eg Epson Enhanced Matt) and glossy or resin coated papers (eg Epson Premium 
Semi Gloss).  I chose to have my CFS have Eboni in the K position.  This ink is generally 
regarded as being much better than Epson's matt black.  The big problem you face with a 
2200 and going to a CFS is the fact that swapping the K ink is now a pain.  Should you 
need to swap the K ink you need to take the whole CFS out.  That's why MIS developed 
their Universal Black. 

http://www.inksupply.com/index.cfm?source=html/cfs_2200_new.html

I decided to take the better matt ink, Eboni, and find solutions for working on RC papers 
with it.  I bought the CFS-2200-UC but asked them at the time of ordering to put Eboni in 
rather than the Universal Black.  You also need to tell them to change the chip to a matt 
black chip.  

I find that eboni is not an issue for colour RC work as there is much less likely to be 
swathes of black.  I did though calculate profiles for colour on EPSG after spraying the test 
sheets with Lyson Print Guard (with which I also spray my prints).  For B&W RC work, I have 
been experimenting with curves in QTR to find a means of getting great prints with Eboni 
in the K position and using Lyson Print Guard and Renaissance Wax.  

Unfortunately, the bottom line on changing any ink set is that you should reprofile or at 
least get profiles from someone using a like system.





--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Robert" <LA_Native@h...> wrote:

> At the risk of asking something that's been covered endlessly on this 
> forum....
> 
> I'm interested in bulk inks (is that what they're called?) for my 
> 2200 to save on cost.  I'm looking for standard inks that will match, 
> as closely as possible, the OEM inks provided by Epson.  I print both 
> color and b&w, and my printer already has custom profiles based on 
> the Epson inks.
> 
> Rather than asking everyone to repeat what's already been covered, I 
> wondered if someone could point me to a link that discusses and/or 
> compares my various options.
> 
> Robert Ades

Using the configuration you described, are you able to get richer, 
punchier blacks?  

Robert Ades

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Kale" 
<stevekale@b...> wrote:
> I think the term you are looking for is a Continuous Flow System.  
I use the one from MIS 
> which has their equivalent of the Epson Ultrchrome inks with one 
exception the black or K 
> ink.  The standard ink in the MIS CFS is their Universal black 
which is designed to work on 
> both matt (eg Epson Enhanced Matt) and glossy or resin coated 
papers (eg Epson Premium 
> Semi Gloss).  I chose to have my CFS have Eboni in the K position.  
This ink is generally 
> regarded as being much better than Epson's matt black.  The big 
problem you face with a 
> 2200 and going to a CFS is the fact that swapping the K ink is now 
a pain.  Should you 
> need to swap the K ink you need to take the whole CFS out.  That's 
why MIS developed 
> their Universal Black. 
> 
> http://www.inksupply.com/index.cfm?source=html/cfs_2200_new.html
> 
> I decided to take the better matt ink, Eboni, and find solutions 
for working on RC papers 
> with it.  I bought the CFS-2200-UC but asked them at the time of 
ordering to put Eboni in 
> rather than the Universal Black.  You also need to tell them to 
change the chip to a matt 
> black chip.  
> 
> I find that eboni is not an issue for colour RC work as there is 
much less likely to be 
> swathes of black.  I did though calculate profiles for colour on 
EPSG after spraying the test 
> sheets with Lyson Print Guard (with which I also spray my prints).  
For B&W RC work, I have 
> been experimenting with curves in QTR to find a means of getting 
great prints with Eboni 
> in the K position and using Lyson Print Guard and Renaissance Wax.  
> 
> Unfortunately, the bottom line on changing any ink set is that you 
should reprofile or at 
> least get profiles from someone using a like system.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Robert" 
<LA_Native@h...> wrote:
> > At the risk of asking something that's been covered endlessly on 
this 
> > forum....
> > 
> > I'm interested in bulk inks (is that what they're called?) for my 
> > 2200 to save on cost.  I'm looking for standard inks that will 
match, 
> > as closely as possible, the OEM inks provided by Epson.  I print 
both 
> > color and b&w, and my printer already has custom profiles based 
on 
> > the Epson inks.
> > 
> > Rather than asking everyone to repeat what's already been 
covered, I 
> > wondered if someone could point me to a link that discusses 
and/or 

> > compares my various options.
> > 
> > Robert Ades

I have been reading this list for some time now. It seems people are getting
great prints even at large sizes.

It would seem that to get a great print you would need a great file to start
with. Are you scanning in large format film or using the capture from a
digital camera?

All replies are appreciated.

In my opinion, yes (although there are a lot of factors going into the mix).
There has been a lot written in this forum about Eboni ink.  Also, if you
like the look of Black Only printing then Eboni is the ink of choice (but
alone it will not adhere well to RC paper).  The main reason however that I
switched to the CFS was to save ink costs.  The CFS has certainly done that
and was easy to install.  The Eboni is an added bonus although as I said it
requires some extra work for RC papers.  You might want to ask the specific
question....Eboni vs Epson MK/PK pluses and minuses....to get other
opinions.  But certainly in my reading of this forum, Eboni is the black ink
of choice for matt paper.

From: "Robert" <LA_Native@...>
Reply-To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2004 02:12:24 -0000
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Digital BW] Re: Bulk inksets

Using the configuration you described, are you able to get richer,
punchier blacks?  

Robert Ades




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

To quantify this I am getting dMax of around 1.65 on matt papers and around 2.1 on 
semi-gloss.

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Steve Kale <stevekale@b...> 
wrote:

> In my opinion, yes (although there are a lot of factors going into the mix).
> There has been a lot written in this forum about Eboni ink.  Also, if you
> like the look of Black Only printing then Eboni is the ink of choice (but
> alone it will not adhere well to RC paper).  The main reason however that I
> switched to the CFS was to save ink costs.  The CFS has certainly done that
> and was easy to install.  The Eboni is an added bonus although as I said it
> requires some extra work for RC papers.  You might want to ask the specific
> question....Eboni vs Epson MK/PK pluses and minuses....to get other
> opinions.  But certainly in my reading of this forum, Eboni is the black ink
> of choice for matt paper.
> 
> 
> From: "Robert" <LA_Native@h...>
> Reply-To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2004 02:12:24 -0000
> To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Digital BW] Re: Bulk inksets
> 
> Using the configuration you described, are you able to get richer,
> punchier blacks?  
> 
> Robert Ades
> 
> 
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

An alternative to trying to jam Eboni on RC which is like trying to jam a round peg into a 
square hole is to buy the CFS with Eboni in the K position chipped MK (rather than the 
Universal Black) and then also buy a prefilled Photo Black cart (with tube attached) and a 
4oz bottle of Photo Black.  Then when you want to switch to RC paper you can then swap 
the blacks a la Epson cartridges albeit ever so slightly more convoluted. 

The only issue with this is that the MIS carts are not self sealing and so you need to seal 
the cart you are not using.  I think there are rivets that you can get to plug the whole in 
the unused cart.  Can someone else provide me with the MIS webpage for these rivets (I 
could not find it)?

See the bottom of this page:

http://www.inksupply.com/index.cfm?source=html/cfs_2200_new.html

MIS rapes you a little for the tube attached.  An empty black cartridge with tube attached 
is $30.  A filled black cartridge with tube attached is $31.  An empty black cartridge 
without tube is $4.45.  

http://www.inksupply.com/index.cfm?source=html/epsonempty.html

Your choice as to whether you can be fussed messing with adding a tube to an empty 
yourself....

I think a CFS is a worthwhile investment as it significantly beats the cost of buying ink 
from Epson by the cartridge.


--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Robert" <LA_Native@h...> wrote:

> Using the configuration you described, are you able to get richer, 
> punchier blacks?  
> 
> Robert Ades
>

Here are the rivets:

http://www.inksupply.com/index.cfm?source=html/accessory.html

From: "Steve Kale" <stevekale@...>
Reply-To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Date: Fri, 16 Jul 2004 01:58:37 -0000
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Digital BW] Re: Bulk inksets

An alternative to trying to jam Eboni on RC which is like trying to jam a
round peg into a 
square hole is to buy the CFS with Eboni in the K position chipped MK
(rather than the 
Universal Black) and then also buy a prefilled Photo Black cart (with tube
attached) and a 
4oz bottle of Photo Black.  Then when you want to switch to RC paper you can
then swap 
the blacks a la Epson cartridges albeit ever so slightly more convoluted.

The only issue with this is that the MIS carts are not self sealing and so
you need to seal 
the cart you are not using.  I think there are rivets that you can get to
plug the whole in 
the unused cart.  Can someone else provide me with the MIS webpage for these
rivets (I 
could not find it)?

See the bottom of this page:

http://www.inksupply.com/index.cfm?source=html/cfs_2200_new.html

MIS rapes you a little for the tube attached.  An empty black cartridge with
tube attached 
is $30.  A filled black cartridge with tube attached is $31.  An empty black
cartridge 
without tube is $4.45.

http://www.inksupply.com/index.cfm?source=html/epsonempty.html

Your choice as to whether you can be fussed messing with adding a tube to an
empty 
yourself....

I think a CFS is a worthwhile investment as it significantly beats the cost
of buying ink 
from Epson by the cartridge.


--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Robert"
<LA_Native@h...> wrote:
> Using the configuration you described, are you able to get richer,
> punchier blacks? 
> 
> Robert Ades
> 




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