Digital BW, The Print

Hey everyone, I wanted to introduce my new company to the members of
the Digital Fineart group. The company is called The Flying Camera, a 
tour company run by photographers specializing in adventure travel 
for photographers. You can see more information about the company on 
our website - http://www.theflyingcamera.com .

Our first offering is Angkor Wat in Cambodia. We will be adding other
destinations in Asia, the American southwest and Latin America in the
near future.

We have expert photographers leading your tour, who have been to your
destination and know the best times and angles to help you get the
shots you want, and the techniques you need to know. We also have 
local experts to provide lectures on the history and culture of our 
destinations, not just tourguides with a script.

Other advantages:

Photo learning opportunities - see demos and discussions of
techniques you may not have tried before to expand your photo
knowledge, and apply those techniques to the work you do on the tour.

Small group sizes - our tours are limited to no more than 15 people,
so everyone can get the maximum benefit from the services we provide.
Support for all formats of equipment, from sub-miniature to 8x10 to
digital. 

On-staff accredited repair technician - we have a certified camera
repair tech on each tour, providing the ability to triage most
equipment failures in the field.

I'll offer anyone who mentions this listing a $100 discount on the
innaugural Angkor Wat tour. The first tour will be running from
October 5-12 (arrive via your own transportation no later than
October 4 in Siem Reap, Cambodia). For more details, please feel free
to contact me or check out the website. 

http://www.theflyingcamera.com is our website. I hope to see some of
you all on the trip!

SPAM!

On Jul 22, 2004, at 1:46 PM, certlotuspro wrote:

> Hey everyone, I wanted to introduce my new company to the members of
>  the Digital Fineart group. The company is called The Flying Camera, a
>  tour company run by photographers specializing in adventure travel
>  for photographers. You can see more information about the company on
>  our website - http://www.theflyingcamera.com .
>
>  Our first offering is Angkor Wat in Cambodia. We will be adding other
>  destinations in Asia, the American southwest and Latin America in the
>  near future.
>
>  We have expert photographers leading your tour, who have been to your
>  destination and know the best times and angles to help you get the
>  shots you want, and the techniques you need to know. We also have
>  local experts to provide lectures on the history and culture of our
>  destinations, not just tourguides with a script.
>
>  Other advantages:
>
>  Photo learning opportunities - see demos and discussions of
>  techniques you may not have tried before to expand your photo
>  knowledge, and apply those techniques to the work you do on the tour.
>
>  Small group sizes - our tours are limited to no more than 15 people,
>  so everyone can get the maximum benefit from the services we provide.
>  Support for all formats of equipment, from sub-miniature to 8x10 to
>  digital.
>
>  On-staff accredited repair technician - we have a certified camera
>  repair tech on each tour, providing the ability to triage most
>  equipment failures in the field.
>
>  I'll offer anyone who mentions this listing a $100 discount on the
>  innaugural Angkor Wat tour. The first tour will be running from
>  October 5-12 (arrive via your own transportation no later than
>  October 4 in Siem Reap, Cambodia). For more details, please feel free
>  to contact me or check out the website.
>
> http://www.theflyingcamera.com is our website. I hope to see some of
>  you all on the trip!
>
>
>
>
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

And that makes it two spam messages in a row. BTW, havent seen any
messages from Martin in a while. He is still around ?


--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Mark Savoia
<mark@c...> wrote:

> SPAM!
> 
> On Jul 22, 2004, at 1:46 PM, certlotuspro wrote:

Dear Sir:

I'm sorry if you were offended enough to pronounce my advertisement 
spam. Thanks to the efforts of many people out there, these days 
just about any commercial advertisement delivered via email or the 
internet is considered spam. I would like you to know I did consider 
carefully before deciding to post this listing here. While I realize 
that a travel service for photographers is not explicitly about 
digital black-and-white printing, I thought that this service might 
be of some appeal to the members of this list. We are offering photo 
education on the tour, including digital photography topics. If you 
read the advertisement you'd realize that I'm also making a gesture 
of good faith to the subscribers of this list by offering a discount 
on the service to people who identify themselves as affiliated. 

I would also argue that my posting is not spam because A: I'm very 
clearly identifying who I am and what I'm selling, B: I'm not 
blasting this advertisement out indiscriminately without thought to 
who is receiving it, and C: I'm not firing it off ad nauseam. 

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Mark Savoia 
<mark@c...> wrote:
> SPAM!

Spam

> I would also argue that my posting is not spam because A: I'm very 
> clearly identifying who I am and what I'm selling, B: I'm not 
> blasting this advertisement out indiscriminately without thought to 
> who is receiving it, and C: I'm not firing it off ad nauseam. 
> 
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Mark Savoia 
> <mark@c...> wrote:
> > SPAM!

Unauthorised commercial promotion is spam!

On Jul 23, 2004, at 7:38 AM, certlotuspro wrote:

> I would also argue that my posting is not spam because A: I'm very
> clearly identifying who I am and what I'm selling

certlotuspro, you are a SPAMMER

Certlotuspro,

Actually your photo tours seem pretty cool and if I were so inclined 
I would take advantage of the offer however whether one lumps your ad 
as spam or not, advertising for commercial purposes on Yahoo groups 
is specifically not permitted, per the Yahoo TOS, unless the 
moderator allows it.

We see references to commercial products on this group but they are 
in direct relationship to a particular process or technique and 
generally are included with several competitive products. Printing 
paper is an example, inks and printers.

It might be nice to see several photo tours compared side by side 
however the subject would be better served on a different forum.

Suggestion, why don't you start a Yahoo Group dedicated to these 
ventures with some real comparisons between various tours? Invite us 
all.

Thanks

Jules

Well, first off, thanks for the constructive criticism, and the vote 
of interest. Since this group has no moderator, I had nobody to ask 
for permission. I see it was a mistake to post to this list. My 
apologies to anyone offended by my posting. Do not worry, it will 
NEVER be repeated. How many SPAMMERS have you ever heard make that 
promise and live by it? 

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "lulalake_1999" 
<lulalake_1999@y...> wrote:
> Certlotuspro,
> 
> Actually your photo tours seem pretty cool and if I were so 
inclined 
> I would take advantage of the offer however whether one lumps your 
ad 
> as spam or not, advertising for commercial purposes on Yahoo groups 
> is specifically not permitted, per the Yahoo TOS, unless the 
> moderator allows it.
> 
> We see references to commercial products on this group but they are 
> in direct relationship to a particular process or technique and 
> generally are included with several competitive products. Printing 
> paper is an example, inks and printers.
> 
> It might be nice to see several photo tours compared side by side 
> however the subject would be better served on a different forum.
> 
> Suggestion, why don't you start a Yahoo Group dedicated to these 
> ventures with some real comparisons between various tours? Invite 
us 

> all.
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Jules

I always find it humorous how every spammer thinks "they" are different.

 If every member of this group, who clearly identified themselves and what 
they are selling or course, sent just one "thought out" and "carefully targeted" 
spam it would be a lot to wade through.  "Good faith" discount? Seems like 
marketing as usual. Duh.

Mentioning a product or service in the context of other discussion or in 
response to a legitimate query (as opposed to a set up for the sole purpose of 
allowing the spammer to then chime in) never bothers me. Product mentions by 
those who are recommending them due to relevant personal experience and not in 
collusion with the spammer never bothers me.

Spammers who think THEY are the exception bother me.

And yes, ANY commercial UNSOLICITED advertisement delivered through email IS 
spam by current accepted definition. Thank goodness for the continued "efforts 
of many people out there".

Not that I saved any bandwidth by offering my opinion here ;  ).

Karen

s_davisclp@... writes:
"
Thanks to the efforts of many people out there, these days 
just about any commercial advertisement delivered via email or the 
internet is considered spam."

"I would also argue that my posting is not spam because A: I'm very 
clearly identifying who I am and what I'm selling, B: I'm not 
blasting this advertisement out indiscriminately without thought to 
who is receiving it, and C: I'm not firing it off ad nauseam."


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]