Digital BW, The Print

John, thanks. I appreciate that info. One more thing.

What is involved with profiling quad inks in QTR for a 7000? I usually have my
profiles for color done at Profile City and I do not have McBeth or
any specialized sofware to make custom profiles. At any rate the process is different, 
where do I read about it? Is it  necessary to have specialized spectrometer equipment for 
that approach or is there somewhere to find generic profiles for such a purpose?  I guess 
there are a lot of "curves" for these inks out there.How complex was it for you to make 
your profiles for Cone inks and UT pigments?

John

Butting in here-
Profiles, while an apt name, is perhaps a name that somewhat confuses
the issue under these circumstances. The term, as generally used,
refers to an icc profile which is part of the huge issue of color
management. ICC profiles are files that have specific characteristics
cross platform and cross application that have been settled on
internationally.
The term used in conjunction with QTR or other special drivers
discussed here don't fall into that category so a traditional
profiling service will not be able to help. Generally it is a
linearization process specific to the particular software that uses
it, in this case QTR. It would be made with that software or utilities
that come with it, and can only be used by that software.
You would need a measuring device to create them, however there is a
big enough community growing that can either share profiles, or others
can make them for you if you send them the printed chart. An early
version that I briefly tried also had suggestions for simply doing it
visually without an expensive device, and you may also be able to use
a scanner.
Tyler

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "john dean"
<deanwork2003@y...> wrote:
> John, thanks. I appreciate that info. One more thing.
> 
> What is involved with profiling quad inks in QTR for a 7000? I
usually have my
> profiles for color done at Profile City and I do not have McBeth or
> any specialized sofware to make custom profiles. At any rate the
process is different, 
> where do I read about it? Is it  necessary to have specialized
spectrometer equipment for 
> that approach or is there somewhere to find generic profiles for
such a purpose?  I guess 
> there are a lot of "curves" for these inks out there.How complex was
it for you to make 

> your profiles for Cone inks and UT pigments?
> 
> John

Thank you Tyler. That was an excellent description of the difference between icc profiles 
and patches used for quad output. I'm saving all this useful information.  This makes me 
feel better about trying the UT pigments through QTR. Since you are such an expert with 
all this, if you don't mind me asking, what inkset are you using now? These carbon 
pigments seem fairly close in composition from what I've read around here and there 
certainly is a price difference, especially in the beginning.

I went to your website. Your work if very nice. Seattle is such a great town. I visited there 
and was either going to move there or here in Atlanata, but ended up here. My brother 
lives in Portland.

Best,

John





-- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Tyler Boley" <tyler@t...> wrote:

> Butting in here-
> Profiles, while an apt name, is perhaps a name that somewhat confuses
> the issue under these circumstances. The term, as generally used,
> refers to an icc profile which is part of the huge issue of color
> management. ICC profiles are files that have specific characteristics
> cross platform and cross application that have been settled on
> internationally.
> The term used in conjunction with QTR or other special drivers
> discussed here don't fall into that category so a traditional
> profiling service will not be able to help. Generally it is a
> linearization process specific to the particular software that uses
> it, in this case QTR. It would be made with that software or utilities
> that come with it, and can only be used by that software.
> You would need a measuring device to create them, however there is a
> big enough community growing that can either share profiles, or others
> can make them for you if you send them the printed chart. An early
> version that I briefly tried also had suggestions for simply doing it
> visually without an expensive device, and you may also be able to use
> a scanner.
> Tyler
> 
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "john dean"
> <deanwork2003@y...> wrote:
> > John, thanks. I appreciate that info. One more thing.
> > 
> > What is involved with profiling quad inks in QTR for a 7000? I
> usually have my
> > profiles for color done at Profile City and I do not have McBeth or
> > any specialized sofware to make custom profiles. At any rate the
> process is different, 
> > where do I read about it? Is it  necessary to have specialized
> spectrometer equipment for 
> > that approach or is there somewhere to find generic profiles for
> such a purpose?  I guess 
> > there are a lot of "curves" for these inks out there.How complex was
> it for you to make 
> > your profiles for Cone inks and UT pigments?
> > 
> > John

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "john dean"
<deanwork2003@y...> wrote:
> Thank you Tyler. That was an excellent description of the difference
between icc profiles 
> and patches used for quad output. I'm saving all this useful
information.  This makes me 
> feel better about trying the UT pigments through QTR. Since you are
such an expert with 
> all this, if you don't mind me asking, what inkset are you using now?

I use PiezoTones, in various combinations. I'm afraid I can't tell you
anything about UT from experience.

> These carbon 
> pigments seem fairly close in composition from what I've read around
here and there 
> certainly is a price difference, especially in the beginning.

Not sure how similar they really are, and it would be very difficult
to verify. How they print, how problem free they are, and how they
hold up is probably more important than how close they are chemically.
Issues like support and consistancy come into play as well when it
comes to prices. Relationships are an important part of these
decisions for me as well.

> I went to your website. Your work if very nice. Seattle is such a
great town. I visited there 
> and was either going to move there or here in Atlanata, but ended up
here. My brother 
> lives in Portland.

Well, your brother and I are way too stinkin' hot right now, let me
tell you.
That was just a little page with commercial work, some of the things I
use quad printing with are here-
http://www.tylerboley.com/landscapes/index.htm
Thanks for giving me an openning for a plug.
Tyler

"john dean" wrote:

> What is involved with profiling quad inks in QTR for a 7000?

I've used QTR on two Epson 1160s with Piezotone and currently an Epson 890 with UT2 
inks.

I've never made profiles from scratch - with the 1160s I would tweak supplied profiles by 
hand - changing values in the file. Read the "GettingStarted" file for more info on what the 
numbers mean. 

With the Epson 890 and UT2 inks I had Roy linearize profiles for my printer as I didn't have 
a densitometer and wanted the best profiles possible. Roy charged me and I was willing to 
pay for it. It was the best bucks I spent on B+W printing.

As QTR becomes more popular there will be more profiles to share where all that will be 
needed is a tweak here or there.

> complex was it for you to make your profiles for Cone inks and UT pigments?

The one weaknesses with QTR is the instructions are a little confusing on building a profile 
from scratch. Having Roy help me with my profiles really cleared my understanding of the 
process better. I'm sure all of us on this list can help you through the process. Roy has 
excellent email support also.

Best,


John V

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "John Vitollo" 
<jvlist@c...> wrote:
> "john dean" wrote:
> 
> > What is involved with profiling quad inks in QTR for a 7000?
> 
> I've used QTR on two Epson 1160s with Piezotone and currently an 
Epson 890 with UT2 
> inks.
> 
> I've never made profiles from scratch - with the 1160s I would 
tweak supplied profiles by 
> hand - changing values in the file. Read the "GettingStarted" file 
for more info on what the 
> numbers mean. 
> 
> With the Epson 890 and UT2 inks I had Roy linearize profiles for my 
printer as I didn't have 
> a densitometer and wanted the best profiles possible. Roy charged 
me and I was willing to 
> pay for it. It was the best bucks I spent on B+W printing.
> 
> As QTR becomes more popular there will be more profiles to share 
where all that will be 
> needed is a tweak here or there.
> 
> > complex was it for you to make your profiles for Cone inks and UT 
pigments?
> 
> The one weaknesses with QTR is the instructions are a little 
confusing on building a profile 
> from scratch. Having Roy help me with my profiles really cleared my 
understanding of the 
> process better. I'm sure all of us on this list can help you 
through the process. Roy has 

> excellent email support also.
> 
> Best,
> 
> 
> John V