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Re: [Digital BW] Epson 1680 (was Museo (and Torchon))

Re: [Digital BW] Epson 1680 (was Museo (and Torchon))

2001-08-08 by Peter Lindman

Julian,
I've had an Epson 1680 firewire for about a month now that I bought to
scan 4x5 B&W negs with. I intend to buy one of the MF scanners when the
dust settles between the Nikon and Polaroid but I've been scanning some
120 negs on the 1680 in the interim. I've been impressed with it so far.
Lots of shadow detail, very sharp (with minimal USM) and smooth
gradation. I had been scanning things on a Fuji Lanovia flatbed (a
$40,000 machine) at work and am hardpressed to notice the difference.
For 9x9" prints it'll do nicely.
Peter Lindman



Julian Thomas wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> I've got a rolleiflex waiting at the post office and an epson 1680 in
> transit, so I'm looking forward to small square pictures, maybe a
> 9inch
> width?, but that depends on the 1680.
> 
> Julian

Re: [Digital BW] Epson 1680 (was Museo (and Torchon))

2001-08-08 by Julian Thomas

Peter, many thanks for the details. I asked around on a couple of lists
before ordering and  the info that I got back said that it was a big
improvement over the 1640 and that I should be OK up to 12ins square.

Julian
----- Original Message -----
Show quoted textHide quoted text
From: "Peter Lindman" <plindman@...>
To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2001 8:00 PM
Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Epson 1680 (was Museo (and Torchon))


> Julian,
> I've had an Epson 1680 firewire for about a month now that I bought to
> scan 4x5 B&W negs with. I intend to buy one of the MF scanners when the
> dust settles between the Nikon and Polaroid but I've been scanning some
> 120 negs on the 1680 in the interim. I've been impressed with it so far.
> Lots of shadow detail, very sharp (with minimal USM) and smooth
> gradation. I had been scanning things on a Fuji Lanovia flatbed (a
> $40,000 machine) at work and am hardpressed to notice the difference.
> For 9x9" prints it'll do nicely.
> Peter Lindman
>
>
>
> Julian Thomas wrote:
>
> > I've got a rolleiflex waiting at the post office and an epson 1680 in
> > transit, so I'm looking forward to small square pictures, maybe a
> > 9inch
> > width?, but that depends on the 1680.
> >
> > Julian
>
>
> If you do not wish to belong to Digital B&W, The Print, you may
> unsubscribe by sending an email to:
> DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>

Re: [Digital BW] Epson 1680

2001-08-08 by mwesley250@earthlink.net

Julian,

I recommend that you check out George DeWolfe's article on the 1680 
in the April/May issue of Camera Arts magazine. He did side-by-side 
comparisons of the 1680 scans to drum scans of 35mm transparencies. 
Very informative. Especially about the oil mounting.

http://www.cameraarts.com/

Also go back to message #51 on the list and there thread on this 
topic that I think will be of interest.

Also keep me posted on how it goes. I originally bought a Linoscan 
1400 to scan 4X5 but the software is really awful and I am thinking 
of switching over to the 1680 which offers a 33% increase in 
resolution.

Martin Wesley

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., "Julian Thomas" 
<julianthomas@t...> wrote:
> Peter, many thanks for the details. I asked around on a couple of 
lists
> before ordering and  the info that I got back said that it was a big
> improvement over the 1640 and that I should be OK up to 12ins 
square.
> 
> Julian

Re: [Digital BW] Epson 1680

2001-08-08 by George DeWolfe

Martin

The article in Camera Arts was about the 1640xl, but the 1680 is 
identical in quality to it - same specs - 1600dpi optical,3.6density 
range. The 1640xl has variable focus and a larger scan area 
(mostly useful for graphic artists,cad, and architects) but I also 
have a 1680 and like it as well. For photographers, the 1680 is a 
better solution, and works just as well as the 1640xl with the oil 
mounting technique. 

Also, the Polaroid SprintScan 45 Ultra is outstanding. I can scan  
4x5 negatives 100% at 2500 dpi and go up to 24x??? on the 
Epson 7000 without Genuine Fractals(which is not supported by 
the Piezography RIP). It's half the price of the Imacon. The new 
Epson 2450 scanner, recently announced at MacWorld, with 
2400 optical dpi, a 3.4 density range, and a 4x9 transparency 
scanning bed for $399 will be really interesting. 

I appreciate you removing the diatribe on the list about Cone 
Tech products at Calumet. I have been a long-time customer of 
Calumet(over 30 years). Their service and prices are by far 
superior to anyone's and Richard Newman went out on a limb to 
have the first national Piezography workshop at the Calumet 
Institute last year. They were the first large photography retailer to 
recognize the importance of Quadtone printing, and they have 
been the first to initially sell many unique photographic  items. 
Plus, they listen. Indeed, we owe them a debt of gratitude.

George

> I recommend that you check out George DeWolfe's article on 
the 1680 
> in the April/May issue of Camera Arts magazine. He did 
side-by-side 
> comparisons of the 1680 scans to drum scans of 35mm 
transparencies. 
> Very informative. Especially about the oil mounting.
> Martin Wesley

Re: [Digital BW] Epson 1680

2001-08-08 by mwesley250@earthlink.net

George,

Thanks for the correction. I can't seem to quite keep up with all the 
new models numbers.

I am in a real quandary at the moment. I love my Polaroid 120 for 
35mm and my 6X7 but most of my best negs are on 4x5. I also want to 
get back to shooting 4X5 and work with the Polaroid film (and your 
LUT info for Silverfast). The Linoscan 1400 at 1200 dpi would 
probably give me a decent 11X14 or even a 13X17 (assuming it has 
enough dynamic range) which is the largest I could print on my Epson 
1200 anyways.

I guess that at the moment I should go forward with Linoscan and wait 
for the Polaroid 45U to continue to come down in price or try the 
2400 dpi Epson when it comes out or the Canon D2400UF (2400X4800 
optical) which is out at $500. This would be a much smaller 
investment than a 1680 with Firewire and Silverfast at $1,700.

Regarding the Calumet thread, I think that flamed up on the Piezo 
list and is still there. I do agree with you about Calumet. They 
carry things that you can't find elsewhere and the service is first 
rate. Price may not always be the best but you can't have it both 
ways. In any case whatever people may think of Calumet, having 
Calumet pick up Piezo will make things better for all of us. It will 
help to bring B&W inkjet printing more strongly into the public eye.

Haven't had to delete anything here yet and I hope that I never get 
stuck making that decision. In all honesty I would only step in if 
a "discussion" broke down into personal insults, harassment, etc. 
(Hmmm.. although if I put my foot in my mouth really bad and posted 
something incredibly stupid...Naw, never happen.;-)

Martin Wesley


--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., "George DeWolfe" 
<dewolfe@m...> wrote:
> Martin
> 
> The article in Camera Arts was about the 1640xl, but the 1680 is 
> identical in quality to it - same specs - 1600dpi 
optical,3.6density 
> range. The 1640xl has variable focus and a larger scan area 
> (mostly useful for graphic artists,cad, and architects) but I also 
> have a 1680 and like it as well. For photographers, the 1680 is a 
> better solution, and works just as well as the 1640xl with the oil 
> mounting technique. 
> 
> Also, the Polaroid SprintScan 45 Ultra is outstanding. I can scan  
> 4x5 negatives 100% at 2500 dpi and go up to 24x??? on the 
> Epson 7000 without Genuine Fractals(which is not supported by 
> the Piezography RIP). It's half the price of the Imacon. The new 
> Epson 2450 scanner, recently announced at MacWorld, with 
> 2400 optical dpi, a 3.4 density range, and a 4x9 transparency 
> scanning bed for $399 will be really interesting. 
> 
> I appreciate you removing the diatribe on the list about Cone 
> Tech products at Calumet. I have been a long-time customer of 
> Calumet(over 30 years). Their service and prices are by far 
> superior to anyone's and Richard Newman went out on a limb to 
> have the first national Piezography workshop at the Calumet 
> Institute last year. They were the first large photography retailer 
to 
> recognize the importance of Quadtone printing, and they have 
> been the first to initially sell many unique photographic  items. 
> Plus, they listen. Indeed, we owe them a debt of gratitude.
> 
> George
> 
(snip)

Re: [Digital BW] Epson 1680

2001-08-09 by Julian Thomas

martin, thanks for the link.

Julian
----- Original Message -----
Show quoted textHide quoted text
From: <mwesley250@...>
To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2001 11:37 PM
Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Epson 1680


> Julian,
>
> I recommend that you check out George DeWolfe's article on the 1680
> in the April/May issue of Camera Arts magazine. He did side-by-side
> comparisons of the 1680 scans to drum scans of 35mm transparencies.
> Very informative. Especially about the oil mounting.
>
> http://www.cameraarts.com/
>
> Also go back to message #51 on the list and there thread on this
> topic that I think will be of interest.
>
> Also keep me posted on how it goes. I originally bought a Linoscan
> 1400 to scan 4X5 but the software is really awful and I am thinking
> of switching over to the 1680 which offers a 33% increase in
> resolution.
>
> Martin Wesley
>
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., "Julian Thomas"
> <julianthomas@t...> wrote:
> > Peter, many thanks for the details. I asked around on a couple of
> lists
> > before ordering and  the info that I got back said that it was a big
> > improvement over the 1640 and that I should be OK up to 12ins
> square.
> >
> > Julian
>
>
>
>
> If you do not wish to belong to Digital B&W, The Print, you may
> unsubscribe by sending an email to:
> DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>

Re: [Digital BW] Epson 1680

2001-08-09 by Julian Thomas

. This would be a much smaller
> investment than a 1680 with Firewire and Silverfast at $1,700.
>
 Martin the 1680PRO I've ordered (complete with tranny adaptor and
silverfast is only 700GBP), are you sure about the price? I'm not too sure
about Firewire but it has SCSI and USB.

Julian

Re: [Digital BW] Epson 1680

2001-08-09 by Julian Thomas

Thanks George. I've got one bay left in the PC...

Julian
----- Original Message -----
Show quoted textHide quoted text
From: "George DeWolfe" <dewolfe@...>
To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2001 1:50 PM
Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Epson 1680


> Julian
>
> The 1680 does have Firewire.
>
> George
>
>
>
> If you do not wish to belong to Digital B&W, The Print, you may
> unsubscribe by sending an email to:
> DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>

Re: Epson 1680 vs Linocolor

2001-08-09 by antonisphoto@yahoo.com

George,

have you had a chance to see the current Lino flatbed offerings in scanners? 
If they ship with Lino Elite, that's pretty powerful software (except it doesn't do 
16bit or have profiles for color negs). Does the Epson  beat them for specs or 
interface?


Antonis



--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., "George DeWolfe" <dewolfe@m...> 
wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> Martin
> 
> The article in Camera Arts was about the 1640xl, but the 1680 is 
> identical in quality to it - same specs - 1600dpi optical,3.6density 
> range. The 1640xl has variable focus and a larger scan area 
> (mostly useful for graphic artists,cad, and architects) but I also 
> have a 1680 and like it as well. For photographers, the 1680 is a 
> better solution, and works just as well as the 1640xl with the oil 
> mounting technique.

Re: [Digital BW] Epson 1680

2001-08-09 by Peter Lindman

I think only the "Pro" version has firewire\ufffd$1399 USD.

Peter Lindman

George DeWolfe wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> 
> Julian
> 
> The 1680 does have Firewire.
>

Re: [Digital BW] Epson 1680

2001-08-09 by John Labovitz

On Thursday, August 9, 2001, at 08:51  AM, Peter Lindman wrote:
> I think only the "Pro" version has firewire…$1399 USD.

I just bought one of these, and from my experience so far, having 
Firewire doesn't buy you anything in speed -- the USB interface is just 
as fast.  That's probably because most of the time is spent in the 
mechanical scanning process.

However, I believe that only the Pro models come with a transparency 
adaptor, which is probably what everyone here wants.

And yes, it gives damn good scans.  I can finally -- after three years 
of doing digital work -- scan my own color (medium-format) negs.

john

Re: Epson 1680

2001-08-09 by antonisphoto@yahoo.com

John,

can you tell us more about the real world performance with negs.
How do plugged up highlight areas (darkest on the neg) scan in terms of 
detail and noise? Have you compared to any high-end scanner?
Since you mentioned color negs (off topic here, but...) does the interface =
have 
profiles or transforms for different color neg films?

Antonis


--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., John Labovitz <johnl@m...> wrote:=

> On Thursday, August 9, 2001, at 08:51  AM, Peter Lindman wrote:
> > I think only the "Pro" version has firewire
$1399 USD.
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> 
> I just bought one of these, and from my experience so far, having 
> Firewire doesn't buy you anything in speed -- the USB interface is just 
> as fast.  That's probably because most of the time is spent in the 
> mechanical scanning process.
> 
> However, I believe that only the Pro models come with a transparency 
> adaptor, which is probably what everyone here wants.
> 
> And yes, it gives damn good scans.  I can finally -- after three years 
> of doing digital work -- scan my own color (medium-format) negs.
> 
> john

Re: Epson 1680 vs Linocolor

2001-08-09 by mwesley250@earthlink.net

Antonis, George,

The clunker for me with the Linoscan is that I am on Windows. I have 
heard good things about the Elite software but for Windows 98 they 
shipped Newcolor 4000 which has a pretty face but gives you very 
little clue as to what is going on. (There is now Newcolor 5000 but I 
am not eligible for an upgrade as I bought over 4 months ago.)

It gets worse. I upgraded to Windows 2000 to get arround the Win98 
memory barrier and the Newcolor doesn't run under Win2000. A 
complaint to Linoscan got a response that they do not support 
Win2000, and have no plans to do so. A kind techsupport guy sent me a 
copy of ColorFactory Pro which was probably good when it was last 
updated in 1998 but I quite frankly am not eager to learn the program.

So I need to see if I can run it with Vuescan or spend $699 for 
Silverfast. But if I can't get a 16-bit file out of the scanner I 
don't want to throw anymore money in that direction. So I may try 
that new Canon.

I don't think I need to tell you my opinon of Linoscan.

And this is drifting off topic badly.

Martin


--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., antonisphoto@y... wrote:
> George,
> 
> have you had a chance to see the current Lino flatbed offerings in 
scanners? 
> If they ship with Lino Elite, that's pretty powerful software 
(except it doesn't do 
> 16bit or have profiles for color negs). Does the Epson  beat them 
for specs or 
> interface?
> 
> 
> Antonis
> 
(snip)

Re: [Digital BW] Re: Epson 1680

2001-08-09 by John Labovitz

On Thursday, August 9, 2001, at 10:14  AM, antonisphoto@... wrote:
> can you tell us more about the real world performance with negs.
> How do plugged up highlight areas (darkest on the neg) scan in terms of
> detail and noise?

I'm very happy with it so far -- a week into owning it.  I'd previously 
used a UMAX PowerLook II (nearly three years old), and the Epson is 
*far* better with highlights.  I found this with some B&W shots I did 
recently of friends of mine at the beach (in Seattle).  The day was 
quite bright, and I did a bad job at remembering to stop down the 
lens. ;)  Scanning on the UMAX, the negs were nearly unusable (at least 
the sky portion); on the Epson, they were very good.

Now, this is only my relative opinion, from only using a pretty bad (by 
today's standards) UMAX previously.

I uploaded one of the raw images, straight in from the scanner 
(converted to TIFF in PhotoShop).  I think I used the default 
auto-levels in the scanner software -- not something I usually do, but I 
find it's actually not so bad on this scanner.  Note that this is an 8mb 
file, scanned at 800dpi at 16bits.  I tried to make it a 
reasonably-sized JPEG, but doing so destroyed all the details that I'm 
talking about.  But if you're truly interested, take a look:

	http://www.meer.net/~johnl/010717a.04.tif

(I shouldn't have to mention that this is only for reference -- please 
don't do anything else with this file.)

> Have you compared to any high-end scanner?

I haven't.  I'm considering splurging for an Imacon scan, but haven't 
yet gotten around to it.

> Since you mentioned color negs (off topic here, but...) does the 
> interface have
> profiles or transforms for different color neg films?

Its idea of profiles seems a bit wacked -- seems to prefer to tag it 
with an *output* profile, rather than a scanner profile.

On the other hand, the Pro model (and maybe a few of the other 
variations) comes with both SilverFast & Monaco EZcolor (and a printed 
IT-8 target).  An acquaintance had reasonable luck making a 
scanner-based profile and applying that in PhotoShop (obviously turned 
off the tagging in the Epson scanner driver), and that worked well.  I 
haven't yet tried it.

john

Re: [Digital BW] Epson 1680

2001-08-09 by mwesley250@earthlink.net

Julian,

I didn't realize it came with Silverfast included and added another 
$235 on top of Epson's price. A quick check on the web turns up U.S. 
prices at just under $1,300 ($1,100 without the firewire option). 
More attractive but still more than I would like to spend right now. 
Tough decisions.

Thanks,
Martin

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., "Julian Thomas" 
<julianthomas@t...> wrote:
> 
> . This would be a much smaller
> > investment than a 1680 with Firewire and Silverfast at $1,700.
> >
>  Martin the 1680PRO I've ordered (complete with tranny adaptor and
> silverfast is only 700GBP), are you sure about the price? I'm not 
too sure
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> about Firewire but it has SCSI and USB.
> 
> Julian

Re: [Digital BW] Epson 1680

2001-08-10 by Jerry Olson

Morning,

Has anybody used both the MIS and Generations Archival Inksets? and if so,
what are the basic differences?

Thanks.

Jerry

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