Digital BW, The Print

Hi All;

Sorry, yet another OT subject. Please contact me off-list if you 
prefer;

I've been using Monaco EZcolor, mostly becuase it came bundled with 
a scanner a couple years ago. It is really quite lame, so I'm 
looking for an alternative I can afford right now. Does anyone have 
direct experience with Profile Prism they can relate? My primary 
need is to be able to produce a fairly linear profile with a 
densitometer, if that is possible.

Thanks for any help

Steve Karafyllakis

Hi Steve,

> looking for an alternative I can afford right now. Does anyone have
> direct experience with Profile Prism they can relate? My primary
> need is to be able to produce a fairly linear profile with a
> densitometer, if that is possible.

Don't bother.
Whilst a few people report success with PP it seems to be very much a
matter of luck, rather than precision. Most of the people I know who
have tried it have spent a VERY LONG time working by trial and error
to produce 'decent' profiles. What works well for one person also
doesn't seem to work for someone else with the same kit, so
variability of hardware is a serious issue.
I spent months trying to make profiles for my Epson printers, I spent
a lot buying new scanners others recommended and trying different
techniques, but with virtual no success. I did make a couple of
pictorially acceptable profiles for non standard papers, but in
reality they were little better than using a default Epson profiles
with a different paper, often much worse.
If your time is worth anything and you don't want colour management to
become a hobby in itself, don't waste it with PP, just buy a custom
printer profile from someone using decent kit.

Sorry not to be more positive about this, but you can waste a lot of
time and money on PP, I did.

Paul Holman
www.paulholman.com

----- Original Message -----

From: Steven Karafyllakis <steve@...>
Date: Fri, 24 Sep 2004 12:13:54 -0000
Subject: [Digital BW] OT: Profile Prism experiences?
To: digitalblackandwhitetheprint@yahoogroups.com

Hi All;

Sorry, yet another OT subject. Please contact me off-list if you 
prefer;

I've been using Monaco EZcolor, mostly becuase it came bundled with 
a scanner a couple years ago. It is really quite lame, so I'm 
looking for an alternative I can afford right now. Does anyone have 
direct experience with Profile Prism they can relate? My primary 
need is to be able to produce a fairly linear profile with a 
densitometer, if that is possible.

Thanks for any help

Steve Karafyllakis



I have not used in in almost a year but I was not overly impressed. 
For a few months I really give it my best printing numerous targets on
numerous papers for all three of my Epson printers.    I profiled my
1160, 870 and 2200 with very mixed results.  In the end, especially
for the 2200, it seemed the Epson provided profiles were about as
good---though results varied depending on the image and the colors. 
This could have been a reflection of my technique in scanning my
targets, or my scanner for that matter.   I might fire it up and try
again.  Sine that time I've "upgraded" from my Epson 1200 flatbed to a
2450 but I'm doing mostly B&W these days and printing color family
"snaps" on my 1160 which has been fine for the purpose using the Epson
driver "automatic".

Richard

I've used Profile Prism for several years and have been pleased with the 
results.  The profiles it produces certainly do make a difference - using 
the wrong one for the ink/paper combination in use produces some unpleasant 
results.  Using the proper profile produces nice results, but I can't say 
if it's a perfectly accurate print as I have no external reference to check 
against.  The program uses a scanner to produce the profiles, and I don't 
recall any instructions for using it with a densitometer.

The program used to be available as a free download with a 30 day test 
period before you had to buy it.  Why not give it a try?

Cheers,
Kip

At 9/24/2004 12:13 PM +0000, Steve wrote, in part:

>I've been using Monaco EZcolor, mostly becuase it came bundled with
>a scanner a couple years ago. It is really quite lame, so I'm
>looking for an alternative I can afford right now. Does anyone have
>direct experience with Profile Prism they can relate? My primary
>need is to be able to produce a fairly linear profile with a
>densitometer, if that is possible.

Thanks Paul; I've already had enough similar feedback off-list to 
have canceled that idea already. Who do you buy profiles from?

Steve K

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Paul Holman 
<pholman@g...> wrote:
> Hi Steve,
> 
> > looking for an alternative I can afford right now. Does anyone 
have
> > direct experience with Profile Prism they can relate? My primary
> > need is to be able to produce a fairly linear profile with a
> > densitometer, if that is possible.
> 
> Don't bother.
> Whilst a few people report success with PP it seems to be very 
much a
> matter of luck, rather than precision. Most of the people I know 
who
> have tried it have spent a VERY LONG time working by trial and 
error
> to produce 'decent' profiles. What works well for one person also
> doesn't seem to work for someone else with the same kit, so
> variability of hardware is a serious issue.
> I spent months trying to make profiles for my Epson printers, I 
spent
> a lot buying new scanners others recommended and trying different
> techniques, but with virtual no success. I did make a couple of
> pictorially acceptable profiles for non standard papers, but in
> reality they were little better than using a default Epson profiles
> with a different paper, often much worse.
> If your time is worth anything and you don't want colour 
management to
> become a hobby in itself, don't waste it with PP, just buy a custom
> printer profile from someone using decent kit.
> 
> Sorry not to be more positive about this, but you can waste a lot 
of

> time and money on PP, I did.
> 
> Paul Holman
> www.paulholman.com

Paul,  With respect to what you wrote, in general I
couldn't agree more.  (I've used both ColorVision's
Profiler Pro and Monaco EZ Color).

The only new "wrinkle" is that for Epson R800 owners,
the Epson media profiles for Epson papers are very
good.

Howard


--- Paul Holman <pholman@...> wrote:

> Hi Steve,
> 
> > looking for an alternative I can afford right now.
> Does anyone have
> > direct experience with Profile Prism they can
> relate? My primary
> > need is to be able to produce a fairly linear
> profile with a
> > densitometer, if that is possible.
> 
> Don't bother.
> Whilst a few people report success with PP it seems
> to be very much a
> matter of luck, rather than precision. Most of the
> people I know who
> have tried it have spent a VERY LONG time working by
> trial and error
> to produce 'decent' profiles. What works well for
> one person also
> doesn't seem to work for someone else with the same
> kit, so
> variability of hardware is a serious issue.
> I spent months trying to make profiles for my Epson
> printers, I spent
> a lot buying new scanners others recommended and
> trying different
> techniques, but with virtual no success. I did make
> a couple of
> pictorially acceptable profiles for non standard
> papers, but in
> reality they were little better than using a default
> Epson profiles
> with a different paper, often much worse.
> If your time is worth anything and you don't want
> colour management to
> become a hobby in itself, don't waste it with PP,
> just buy a custom
> printer profile from someone using decent kit.
> 
> Sorry not to be more positive about this, but you
> can waste a lot of
> time and money on PP, I did.
> 
> Paul Holman
> www.paulholman.com
> 
> 



		
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Howard,

> The only new "wrinkle" is that for Epson R800 owners,
> the Epson media profiles for Epson papers are very
> good.

I don't think a manufacturer getting colour management right is a
"wrinkle", all power to them!
In fact, in my experience, Epson's supplied profiles are very good for
their own papers. A custom profile may improve things a little, but
for the modern printers not by a huge amount.
Custom profiles have their place when using non-standard papers or inks.

Paul Holman
www.paulholman.com

>>The program used to be available as a free download with a 30 day 
test
period before you had to buy it. Why not give it a try?

That no longer seems to be the case, I didn't find any trial 
version. But I'll look again.

Steve K

Steve,

> Who do you buy profiles from?

Interesting question ;-)

Having spent 9 months getting nowhere slowly with PP, I bought my
first custom profile from SCS Imaging http://www.scs-imaging.co.uk/
who provide one of the cheapest services available in the UK. The
profile was very good and service was excellent too. Simon uses a
Gretag-MacBeth Eye-1 making his profiles from the single sheet target.

However having spent so long trying to get PP to deliver decent
results and along the way spent many long evenings learning about
colour management, I thought it would be waste not to put that
knowledge to more profitable use.
As a result I've invested in the kit to make high quality profiles
myself and now run my own business making custom printer profiles
http://www.colourprofiles.com

There are now quite a few businesses now offering an affordable custom
printer profiling service based around the Gretag-MacBeth kit, all of
whom will probably give similar quality results. I'd recommend using a
business that uses the twin page target for profile creation as it
really does give better results in my experience.
You might find a local US based service more convenient to use of
course, but do have a look at my site and see what you think of the
information there. Ask me nicely off-list and I might be able to offer
you a discount :)

Nice web site you have there by the way, some great landscapes.

Regards

Paul Holman
www.colourprofiles.com
www.paulholman.com

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Steven 
Karafyllakis" <steve@s...> wrote:
> 

Thanks Paul; I've already had enough similar feedback off-list to 
> have canceled that idea already. Who do you buy profiles from?
> 
> Steve K
> 

You can get good profils from this site :
http://perso.wanadoo.fr/christophe.metairie.photographie/profile.html